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  1. #51
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    Re: Another team's prospects thread

    Another sad turn for the Marlins Jeff Allison.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2545634

    Makes me appreciate having a guy like Hughes even more.

  2. #52

    Re: Another team's prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees-26rings
    He is the Twins Phil Hughes but some say he is the best in the minors but,
    Most say Hughes is.
    Actually, most say Bailey is.

  3. #53
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    Re: Another team's prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip Hughes Fan
    Actually, most say Bailey is.
    i'd say they're about even with one another - bailey's fastball is better and he has better overall stuff, but hughes' secondary pitches are better, along with his control.

    they're also virtually the same age.
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  4. #54

    Re: Another team's prospects thread

    One thing I wonder about Bailey is that is he getting batters out by just blowing his fastball by them. Remember Josh Becket put up great numbers in the minors high k/9, low WHIP, low era, and low BB/9, but never had command of his secondary stuff. I have a feeling Bailey might follow the path of Josh Beckett. Someone who has great raw stuff, but will be inconsisent in the majors. While Hughes will be like Peavy. Scouts and websites like BA tend to overevaluate raw stuff instead of looking at the command and control of the secondary pitches. Its those secondary pitches that determine if you'll be a Josh Beckett or Jake Peavy.
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  5. #55

    Re: Another team's prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ppa79
    One thing I wonder about Bailey is that is he getting batters out by just blowing his fastball by them. Remember Josh Becket put up great numbers in the minors high k/9, low WHIP, low era, and low BB/9, but never had command of his secondary stuff. I have a feeling Bailey might follow the path of Josh Beckett. Someone who has great raw stuff, but will be inconsisent in the majors. While Hughes will be like Peavy. Scouts and websites like BA tend to overevaluate raw stuff instead of looking at the command and control of the secondary pitches. Its those secondary pitches that determine if you'll be a Josh Beckett or Jake Peavy.
    Outside of an awful 2006 Beckett's current career isnt that bad of a path for a pitcher

  6. #56

    Re: Another team's prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by homer2931
    Outside of an awful 2006 Beckett's current career isnt that bad of a path for a pitcher
    But Beckett was projected to be an Ace. Scouts were talking about multiple Cy youngs and him being one of the top pitchers in the AL. Aside from the 2003 playoffs I haven't seen it yet.
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  7. #57
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    Re: Another team's prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ppa79
    One thing I wonder about Bailey is that is he getting batters out by just blowing his fastball by them. Remember Josh Becket put up great numbers in the minors high k/9, low WHIP, low era, and low BB/9, but never had command of his secondary stuff. I have a feeling Bailey might follow the path of Josh Beckett. Someone who has great raw stuff, but will be inconsisent in the majors. While Hughes will be like Peavy. Scouts and websites like BA tend to overevaluate raw stuff instead of looking at the command and control of the secondary pitches. Its those secondary pitches that determine if you'll be a Josh Beckett or Jake Peavy.
    That sounds a lot like Pelfrey too. He has a great fastball, good command with it, but his secondary pitches are nothing.

  8. #58

    Re: Another team's prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ppa79
    But Beckett was projected to be an Ace. Scouts were talking about multiple Cy youngs and him being one of the top pitchers in the AL. Aside from the 2003 playoffs I haven't seen it yet.
    I think if the Reds were offered a future for Bailey similar to Beckett's first 4 years (minus the injuries) they'd probably take it. Beckett isnt that bad of a pitcher to be compared to

  9. #59

    Re: Another team's prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by homer2931
    I think if the Reds were offered a future for Bailey similar to Beckett's first 4 years (minus the injuries) they'd probably take it. Beckett isnt that bad of a pitcher to be compared to
    They probably would since Beckett is still better than most of the pitchers out there. But so far Beckett hasn't fulfilled the ace type potential that many said that he would do.
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  10. #60

    Re: Another team's prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ppa79
    But Beckett was projected to be an Ace. Scouts were talking about multiple Cy youngs and him being one of the top pitchers in the AL. Aside from the 2003 playoffs I haven't seen it yet.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the minors Beckett had very good control of his curve. There really was no reason to think, if healthy, Beckett wouldn't become an Ace. Obviously it hasn't worked out that way, but the blisters and shoulder problems (in 2005) were most of the problem, in my opinion.

    As for Bailey, I doubt the command is as good as Hughes', but his curveball is supposed to be nasty. The Reds also had him work extensively on his command of his secondary pitches in A ball, a lot of the time at the expense of his numbers. I agree with you about BA sometimes overlloking command too much (Lester comes to mind), but I think it's the case here. That's not to say Bailey is clearly better than Hughes of course, but it's close enough that I can understand and even agree with ranking Bailey a very slightly better prospect than Hughes.

  11. #61
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    Re: Another team's prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip Hughes Fan
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the minors Beckett had very good control of his curve. There really was no reason to think, if healthy, Beckett wouldn't become an Ace. Obviously it hasn't worked out that way, but the blisters and shoulder problems (in 2005) were most of the problem, in my opinion.

    As for Bailey, I doubt the command is as good as Hughes', but his curveball is supposed to be nasty. The Reds also had him work extensively on his command of his secondary pitches in A ball, a lot of the time at the expense of his numbers. I agree with you about BA sometimes overlloking command too much (Lester comes to mind), but I think it's the case here. That's not to say Bailey is clearly better than Hughes of course, but it's close enough that I can understand and even agree with ranking Bailey a very slightly better prospect than Hughes.
    What he said. Bailey is a better prospect than Pelfrey and has more than a fastball.
    "I love Hughes, really I'm not kidding here, I am in love with him, I'm a straight male and I don't even know what he looks like, but I am in love."-JeterRodriguezSheff

  12. #62

    Re: Another team's prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip Hughes Fan
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the minors Beckett had very good control of his curve. There really was no reason to think, if healthy, Beckett wouldn't become an Ace. Obviously it hasn't worked out that way, but the blisters and shoulder problems (in 2005) were most of the problem, in my opinion.
    He's been healthy this year. I think his command holds him back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip Hughes Fan
    As for Bailey, I doubt the command is as good as Hughes', but his curveball is supposed to be nasty. The Reds also had him work extensively on his command of his secondary pitches in A ball, a lot of the time at the expense of his numbers. I agree with you about BA sometimes overlloking command too much (Lester comes to mind), but I think it's the case here. That's not to say Bailey is clearly better than Hughes of course, but it's close enough that I can understand and even agree with ranking Bailey a very slightly better prospect than Hughes.
    BA ranks Bailey ahead of Hughes because Bailey has better raw stuff than Hughes. In 2002, BA had ranked Beckett #1 and Peavy # 22. But because of Peavy's command of his secondary pitches he was able to become an elite pitcher while Beckett still hasn't. Beckett's raw stuff is better than Peavy's, but Peavy's command of his secondary pitches is better than Beckett's.
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  13. #63

    Re: Another team's prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ppa79
    BA ranks Bailey ahead of Hughes because Bailey has better raw stuff than Hughes. In 2002, BA had ranked Beckett #1 and Peavy # 22. But because of Peavy's command of his secondary pitches he was able to become an elite pitcher while Beckett still hasn't. Beckett's raw stuff is better than Peavy's, but Peavy's command of his secondary pitches is better than Beckett's.
    Good example.

  14. #64
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    Re: Another team's prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ppa79
    He's been healthy this year. I think his command holds him back.



    BA ranks Bailey ahead of Hughes because Bailey has better raw stuff than Hughes. In 2002, BA had ranked Beckett #1 and Peavy # 22. But because of Peavy's command of his secondary pitches he was able to become an elite pitcher while Beckett still hasn't. Beckett's raw stuff is better than Peavy's, but Peavy's command of his secondary pitches is better than Beckett's.
    Prior to this year, Josh Beckett and Jake Peavy had equal career ERA+s.
    "I love Hughes, really I'm not kidding here, I am in love with him, I'm a straight male and I don't even know what he looks like, but I am in love."-JeterRodriguezSheff

  15. #65

    Re: Another team's prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ppa79
    He's been healthy this year. I think his command holds him back.
    Yes and no. He hasn't had any problems yet, but he's been afraid to throw curveballs in warmup sessions for fear of getting a blister. Because of this he has no command at all on his curveball, nor is it as sharp as it used to be, and hitters are rightfully sitting on his fastball.

  16. #66

    Re: Another team's prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NJASDJDH
    Prior to this year, Josh Beckett and Jake Peavy had equal career ERA+s.
    And as bad as Beckett has been, when you adjust for league and park Peavy has almost certainly been a little bit worse.

  17. #67
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    Re: Another team's prospects thread

    I could be way off here, but:

    I seem to remember readnig that ERA+ does automatically adjust for league and park.

  18. #68

    Re: Another team's prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip Hughes Fan
    And as bad as Beckett has been, when you adjust for league and park Peavy has almost certainly been a little bit worse.
    ERA+ does adjust for it
    BTW Beckett's current BB rate is 2.6/9. His problem is 1.3 HR/9 which could be a problem with the curve, but opposing batters are only hitting .124 off it (according to ESPN) so if the curve isnt affecting his BB rate or his AVG against, I'm skeptical its driving his HR rate

  19. #69

    Re: Another team's prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MaximMan121
    I could be way off here, but:

    I seem to remember readnig that ERA+ does automatically adjust for league and park.
    It does. I wasn't clear in my last post, I meant this season -- and I haven't checked either pitcher's ERA+ so far this year -- I would guess Peavy's is higher because of those reasons despite the lower ERA.

  20. #70

    Re: Another team's prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by homer2931
    ERA+ does adjust for it
    BTW Beckett's current BB rate is 2.6/9. His problem is 1.3 HR/9 which could be a problem with the curve, but opposing batters are only hitting .124 off it (according to ESPN) so if the curve isnt affecting his BB rate or his AVG against, I'm skeptical its driving his HR rate

    for the record, i believe there is such thing as control, not walking too many people, and command, throwing quality pitches

    beckett had good control, but poor command (hence the high HR rate)

  21. #71

    Re: Another team's prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bmxstreetrider86
    for the record, i believe there is such thing as control, not walking too many people, and command, throwing quality pitches

    beckett had good control, but poor command (hence the high HR rate)
    I just don't get why his curve doesnt give up many basehits, but would give up HR's

  22. #72
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    Re: Another team's prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Philip Hughes Fan
    It does. I wasn't clear in my last post, I meant this season -- and I haven't checked either pitcher's ERA+ so far this year -- I would guess Peavy's is higher because of those reasons despite the lower ERA.
    Beckett's ERA+ this year: 95
    Peavy's ERA+ this year: 89
    "I love Hughes, really I'm not kidding here, I am in love with him, I'm a straight male and I don't even know what he looks like, but I am in love."-JeterRodriguezSheff

  23. #73

    Re: Another team's prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by homer2931
    I just don't get why his curve doesnt give up many basehits, but would give up HR's

    i think its decieving when it comes to becketts CB not giving up much hits. it just seems that AL hitters have quickly noticed the beckett cant throw his curve for strike consistently, so they only swing at it with 2 strikes, thats why he doesnt give up more hits on his CB

    since the hitters essentially come up to the plate looking fastball, and beckett cant locate it very well, he gives up tons of HR's

  24. #74
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    Re: Another team's prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NJASDJDH
    Beckett's ERA+ this year: 95
    Peavy's ERA+ this year: 89
    Where do you get updated park adjusted stats on the current year?

  25. #75
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    Re: Another team's prospects thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JavyVazquezIsSick
    Where do you get updated park adjusted stats on the current year?
    The Hardball Times, for one, has ERA+:

    http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstat...&league_filter[0]=2&orderBy=eraPlus&direction=DESC&page=1
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