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  1. #1
    Released Outright incarnadine's Avatar
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    Neat New Stat in NYTimes : Sheff AL MVP

    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/07/sp...l/07score.html

    The AL Cy Young is Joe Nathan, the NL Cy Young is Gagne.

    A.L. M.V.P. Sheffield, with a 5.60 WRAP, edges out the Angels slugger Vladimir Guerrero (4.45). Ramirez ranks sixth because more of his hits came in game situations that did not have a big effect on the outcome of Boston games.

    N.L. M.V.P. Bonds (12.16) tramples the runner-up, Albert Pujols of the Cardinals (6.85), demonstrating that Bonds's walks did indeed help the Giants by setting the table for subsequent, however disappointing, hitters.
    More evidence that Bonds, by all imaginable measures, is the greatest of all time.

    And that Gary Sheffield (and also ARod) had a knack for getting into and performing well in situations which had a disproportionate impact on winning games.

    And that Mo and Flash were the key pitchers for the season.

  2. #2
    Released Outright incarnadine's Avatar
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  3. #3
    Joe deserved better
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    I'd like to study the methodology of hitters more, but the pitching ratings seem rather skewed to me. These rankings are skewed towards closers because they are used in high leverage situations. However, it doesn't state how a "league average" closer would do on their scale. Certainly a pitcher like Santana is more valuable than Joe Nathan, because a starter that can dominate like Santana did is much more rare than the regular season versions of a Rivera, Nathan, Gagne, Smoltz....

  4. #4
    Released Outright cubswin's Avatar
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    Re: Neat New Stat in NYTimes : Sheff AL MVP

    Originally posted by incarnadine
    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/07/sp...l/07score.html
    ...nd that Gary Sheffield (and also ARod) had a knack for getting into and performing well in situations which had a disproportionate impact on ...

    How do they determine what has an impact on a game's outcome?

  5. #5
    clubhouse cancer WiffleWOOD's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Neat New Stat in NYTimes : Sheff AL MVP

    Originally posted by cubswin



    How do they determine what has an impact on a game's outcome?
    Any contribution late in the game has a greater effect on the game's outcome, in this system, because it greatly increases the team's chances of winning (because it is much more difficult for the other team to come back with less outs left, etc.).

    Therein lies the problem with this system...it relies too heavily on the idea of "clutch" performance. It is interesting, however, to see that the leaders in each category are pretty much the same people everyone's talking about anyway.

  6. #6
    Released Outright Calvin and Hobbes's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: Neat New Stat in NYTimes : Sheff AL MVP

    Originally posted by WiffleWOOD



    Therein lies the problem with this system...it relies too heavily on the idea of "clutch" performance. It is interesting, however, to see that the leaders in each category are pretty much the same people everyone's talking about anyway.
    The pitching leaders are hooey. Because they rely on late game production so much, too many of the top guys are short relievers. The hitting leaders are fine, but there's no way I'm picking a closer in both leagues this year.

  7. #7
    NYYF Legend

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    Interesting stat and it doesn't surprise me in the least that Sheff was #1 in the AL in it.
    “I mean, people knew that Brown was out there, and that Randy was ornery all the time. And Pavano is whoever he is. But if you’re their manager, you can’t go out and write about them like that.

  8. #8

    Re: Neat New Stat in NYTimes : Sheff AL MVP

    Originally posted by incarnadine
    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/07/sp...l/07score.html

    The AL Cy Young is Joe Nathan.

    NO WAY........

    he gotta be KIDDING........
    In any category how can he be better than Santana,Schilling and MO.

  9. #9

    Re: Re: Re: Neat New Stat in NYTimes : Sheff AL MVP

    Originally posted by WiffleWOOD


    Any contribution late in the game has a greater effect on the game's outcome, in this system, because it greatly increases the team's chances of winning (because it is much more difficult for the other team to come back with less outs left, etc.).

    Therein lies the problem with this system...it relies too heavily on the idea of "clutch" performance. It is interesting, however, to see that the leaders in each category are pretty much the same people everyone's talking about anyway.
    I guess one has to read the paper. I would hope that they somehow weight things in a sensible way.

    For example, a starter who shuts out the side in the first inning. How is his contribution measured? Should it really be any more or less than a reliever who shuts down the side in the 9th? Are their marginal contributions to winning any different? Or is the value of a reliver derived from the fact that he often comes into RISP situations caused by other pitchers, while starters never do that?

    Also by focusing on individual games, you can lose sight of the big picture. For example, a starter who can go 8 or 9 innings, maybe giving up an extra run in the process versus a reliever, would seem to add value by saving the bullpen over the long run.

  10. #10
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    Re: Re: Neat New Stat in NYTimes : Sheff AL MVP

    Originally posted by kamikaze


    NO WAY........

    he gotta be KIDDING........
    In any category how can he be better than Santana,Schilling and MO.
    Well, he was better than Mo was this season. But, the article stated that the stat favored relief pitchers so you can take that one with a grain of salt.
    “I mean, people knew that Brown was out there, and that Randy was ornery all the time. And Pavano is whoever he is. But if you’re their manager, you can’t go out and write about them like that.

  11. #11
    This is an interesting stat, but I wouldn't build my team around it. You need production the whole game. It is interesting, however, to see who performs well in the clutch.

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