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  1. #5576

    Re: 2020-2021 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post
    Yes, his 2018 performance was good but that was also 3 years ago. He needs to prove he can remain healthy and consistently perform at that level. Unfortunately, he has yet to do so.

    The Yankees need an established, legitimate #2 and not a roll of the dice on another Cashman experiment.
    I think he's consistently performed whenever he wasn't out with TJS, but I guess there's some risk coming back from that even though most guys are fine after their return. And I definitely don't disagree about getting a no doubt #2 instead of another Cashman "experiment," but I think we're potentially entering territory where if we want everything we'll end up with nothing and I'd MUCH rather have Taillon than roll into the season with what we have. If Castillo, Hendricks, Marquez, Woodruff, or Gallen could be had instead I'd be all over those guys first, but its seeming more unlikely which could make Taillon the best starter available. If its not going to cost the top couple prospects in the system I think its makes a lot of sense. The deadline is always a mystery and Cashman is always gun-shy then anyway.

  2. #5577
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    Re: 2020-2021 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bauer View Post
    An interesting topic. The Yanks were run to greatness by a family, i.e., Col Jake. I'm not sure what a business scholar would call the Topping-Webb ownership. Then there was CBS, of which the less said the better (although it has had some supporters here and there). And finally the Steinbrenner family. Success order seems to have been (1) Rupert (2)Webb/Topping (3) Steinbrenners (4) CBS.
    Once Topping became the sole owner around 1960 he decided he was going to sell the team and retire. He basically let the team slowly die in the early 60s. Yankees were still good enough to win a few more pennants but by 64 when Topping sold the team to CBS they were close to falling which is what happened in 65. Then in 65 the draft started so CBS could not just buy the best prospects.

  3. #5578
    The King dabomb2045's Avatar
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    Re: 2020-2021 Hot Stove Thread

    Yankees fanbase: We need a #2 starter

    Nobody:

    Definitely nobody:

    Brian Cashman: I found Asher Wojiechowski at the bottom of the barrel

    Hal: Things are looking good for another Luxury Tax Championship

  4. #5579

    Re: 2020-2021 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by matt2351 View Post
    I acknowledged all of this in my original post. I even used the term "conjecture."

    As far as the value of the team and how much it has increased vis-a-vis other franchises, I have not seen any aggregated data around this, but I would like to, if you have it available. It would be interesting to look at how much the franchises have all increased in value over the last 50 years and to see if we can discern any patterns.
    The sale price of the Yankees at the time was not significantly greater than other teams. The White Sox were sold for around the same amount a couple years later. They simply weren't that profitable at the time relative to other franchises. Now, there is no comparison between the Yankees and other franchises, and that is because of the business acumen that built the brand. It's easy to see the success of the 40s/50s and think of the business as better managed in the past than today, but it's simply not the case based off of numbers. Turning the Yankees into the profit generating machine that they are has really be achieved under the Steinbrenner era.

    Just look at the attendance by year: https://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/yankatte.shtml

    Even with ticket prices more expensive than they have ever been, the Yankees are selling as many tickets as ever. If you compare attendance in the years immediately prior to the Steinbrenner purchase to after, it's clear the effect they had. Even just looking at the Cashman years, I think from a business perspective you can see why they would want him sticking around-The past 25 years have been the most profitable ever. I agree that more WS would be nice, but if what you want is $$$, he is perfect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bauer View Post
    An interesting topic. The Yanks were run to greatness by a family, i.e., Col Jake. I'm not sure what a business scholar would call the Topping-Webb ownership. Then there was CBS, of which the less said the better (although it has had some supporters here and there). And finally the Steinbrenner family. Success order seems to have been (1) Rupert (2)Webb/Topping (3) Steinbrenners (4) CBS.
    From a strictly business standpoint, you would probably put Rupert #1 and Steinbrenners #2. It's tough to really compare the ownership that started the brand to the one that drove it to incredible profitability though-since its existence depended on the former.

  5. #5580

    Re: 2020-2021 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Tampa might disagree with you on that one. They didn't really strike a hard bargain for Archer.
    The shoe is on the other foot. When the Archer trade was made, the pirates were fighting for a playoff spot, not rebuilding from the ground up. Pittsburgh would be operating from a position of strength against the Yankees since they're in need of a #2 starter and the former are in need of prospects and position players of the future.

    It's always been this way when dealing with the Yankees. Teams ask for more because they know the Yankees can afford to buy players and it's their only leverage against the big spenders. Though, Cashman severely overvalues his farm system and some trades don't get done because he is too stubborn or waits too long to part ways with talented players who have no future with the club like Clint or Andujar.

  6. #5581
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    Re: 2020-2021 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dabomb2045 View Post
    Yankees fanbase: We need a #2 starter

    Nobody:

    Definitely nobody:

    Brian Cashman: I found Asher Wojiechowski at the bottom of the barrel

    Hal: Things are looking good for another Luxury Tax Championship
    Almost a 6 lifetime ERA. Another great pickup by the master dumpster diver.

  7. #5582
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    Re: 2020-2021 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by billyhoyle View Post
    The sale price of the Yankees at the time was not significantly greater than other teams. The White Sox were sold for around the same amount a couple years later. They simply weren't that profitable at the time relative to other franchises. Now, there is no comparison between the Yankees and other franchises, and that is because of the business acumen that built the brand. It's easy to see the success of the 40s/50s and think of the business as better managed in the past than today, but it's simply not the case based off of numbers. Turning the Yankees into the profit generating machine that they are has really be achieved under the Steinbrenner era.

    Just look at the attendance by year: https://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/yankatte.shtml

    Even with ticket prices more expensive than they have ever been, the Yankees are selling as many tickets as ever. If you compare attendance in the years immediately prior to the Steinbrenner purchase to after, it's clear the effect they had. Even just looking at the Cashman years, I think from a business perspective you can see why they would want him sticking around-The past 25 years have been the most profitable ever. I agree that more WS would be nice, but if what you want is $$$, he is perfect.



    From a strictly business standpoint, you would probably put Rupert #1 and Steinbrenners #2. It's tough to really compare the ownership that started the brand to the one that drove it to incredible profitability though-since its existence depended on the former.
    You left out one owner. Larry McPhail was the owner before Topping/Webb.

  8. #5583

    Re: 2020-2021 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ymike673 View Post
    Almost a 6 lifetime ERA. Another great pickup by the master dumpster diver.
    To a minor league contract. He won't see the light of day with the Yankees unless a catastrophe hits the starting rotation.

  9. #5584
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    Re: 2020-2021 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Benefactor View Post
    To a minor league contract. He won't see the light of day with the Yankees unless a catastrophe hits the starting rotation.
    Invited to spring training.

  10. #5585

    Re: 2020-2021 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ymike673 View Post
    Almost a 6 lifetime ERA. Another great pickup by the master dumpster diver.
    It honestly feels like Cashman is trolling us at this point.

  11. #5586

    Re: 2020-2021 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ymike673 View Post
    Invited to spring training.
    Yeah, even so, he's probably 8th or 9th on the depth chart so it would take something catastrophic to the Yankee rotation to see him actually pitch for the Yankees.

  12. #5587
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    Re: 2020-2021 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Benefactor View Post
    Yeah, even so, he's probably 8th or 9th on the depth chart so it would take something catastrophic to the Yankee rotation to see him actually pitch for the Yankees.
    I hope you are right.

  13. #5588

    Cashman philosophy on piching in his own words....

    Here’s what Cashman said about the state of the club’s starting pitching in late December while on MLB Network Radio.

    “I think we have a framework at the very least to fall back on, but I definitely feel like we need to try to address more certain innings. You don’t want to be in a position where you’re scrambling. … No one ever wants to be in a scrambling mode, because then it dominoes into your bullpen and can have an adverse negative effect on you. ... If I can add to what I have sooner than later, all the better, but if I have to wait to do it in-season, so be it. We might have enough here before us that’s just untested.”

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