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  1. #51

    Re: 2020 Masahiro Tanaka Performance Thread

    Please donít resign unreliable Tanaka not even at $10 million for one season. Of course, JA Happ didnít pitch enough innings for him to earn a third season at $17 million.

    Projected starters should be: Cole; Bauer; Sevy; Monty and Deivi.

  2. #52
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    Re: 2020 Masahiro Tanaka Performance Thread

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  3. #53
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    Re: 2020 Masahiro Tanaka Performance Thread

    I really respect Masa's thirst to be perfect every time he's on the mound, and his hunger to win. I think he's a good teammate and a proud, confident pitcher.

    With that being said, I think Masahiro's new contract should be commensurate with a #3 or #4 starter's value on a contending club. For the Yankees, I think the AAV needs to be around $15M, tops.

    I think going forward, Tanaka's reputation as a big-game pitcher will be more folklore than anything else. I personally am losing trust in him.

    I think the man needs to face the fact that he's going to take a paycut - which is why there's speculation that he'll go back to Japan, IMO.
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  4. #54
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    Re: 2020 Masahiro Tanaka Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YanksBeatBraves1996 View Post
    Please don’t resign unreliable Tanaka not even at $10 million for one season. Of course, JA Happ didn’t pitch enough innings for him to earn a third season at $17 million.

    Projected starters should be: Cole; Bauer; Sevy; Monty and Deivi.
    They'd be idiots not to resign him for 1/$10M. Or even 3/45. He didn't even have a bad season. Or a bad season last year. Or the one before that. His ERA+ was 120, 101 and 112, respectively. He had a bad post season (2 games) in a weird season. It happens. The best pitcher in baseball, Shane Bieber, had a bad post season too. LOTS of great pitchers got hit hard in October- and it happens every year.

    They'd be even bigger idiots for relying on a Sevy, Monte and Deivi for 3/5 rotation spots.

    Severino hasn't pitched effectively for nearly 3 years come April 2021 or pitched much at all for 2 years. Monte and Deivi didn't do anything this year to think they can even eat innings, let alone be effective. And what are you going to do when a starter gets hurt? Cobble together starts with the bullpen on a $250M payroll team?
    A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!

  5. #55
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    Re: 2020 Masahiro Tanaka Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinStripes View Post
    They'd be idiots not to resign him for 1/$10M. Or even 3/45. He didn't even have a bad season. Or a bad season last year. Or the one before that. His ERA+ was 120, 101 and 112, respectively. He had a bad post season (2 games) in a weird season. It happens. The best pitcher in baseball, Shane Bieber, had a bad post season too. LOTS of great pitchers got hit hard in October- and it happens every year.

    They'd be even bigger idiots for relying on a Sevy, Monte and Deivi for 3/5 rotation spots.

    Severino hasn't pitched effectively for nearly 3 years come April 2021 or pitched much at all for 2 years. Monte and Deivi didn't do anything this year to think they can even eat innings, let alone be effective. And what are you going to do when a starter gets hurt? Cobble together starts with the bullpen on a $250M payroll team?
    It's time to move on from Tanaka. At this stage in his career, he can't be relied upon to be much more than a #3-4 starter. And they can fill that role with in-house options that will cost far less. That's not even factoring in his elbow, which is a ticking time-bomb.

    The Yankees need to shore up the top of the rotation - they need a #1A or very good #2 to slot behind Cole. They need Bauer.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post
    It's time to move on from Tanaka. At this stage in his career, he can't be relied upon to be much more than a #3-4 starter. And they can fill that role with in-house options that will cost far less. That's not even factoring in his elbow, which is a ticking time-bomb.

    The Yankees need to shore up the top of the rotation - they need a #1A or very good #2 to slot behind Cole. They need Bauer.
    Considered how they develop pitchers internally, I have zero confidence that they could fill the role of #3-4 starter with in-house option, not with this front office and Damon Oppenheimer sill being in charge.

  7. #57
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    Re: 2020 Masahiro Tanaka Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
    Considered how they develop pitchers internally, I have zero confidence that they could fill the role of #3-4 starter with in-house option, not with this front office and Damon Oppenheimer sill being in charge.
    The Yankees don't have a problem producing #3-5 type starters (i.e. Montgomery, German, Garcia).

    Where they fail badly is in developing TOR starters, and this is why they need Bauer. Severino won't be back until late-season, and can't be relied upon for anything until 2022. Bottom line is, you're not winning any championships without at least 2 excellent starters at the top of the rotation. Just look at the two teams playing in the World Series right now as proof.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  8. #58
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    Re: 2020 Masahiro Tanaka Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post
    It's time to move on from Tanaka. At this stage in his career, he can't be relied upon to be much more than a #3-4 starter. And they can fill that role with in-house options that will cost far less. That's not even factoring in his elbow, which is a ticking time-bomb.

    The Yankees need to shore up the top of the rotation - they need a #1A or very good #2 to slot behind Cole. They need Bauer.
    What in house options are those? #3 pitchers are very valuable- and they don't just fall off trees. This isn't like just going to the farm system for a 6th inning reliever.

    Assuming #3 means average, that means half the starters in MLB are worse. You think the Yankees have a bunch of pitchers who are literally better than HALF the MLB starters?

    Tanaka is still substantially better than half the starters in baseball. He isn't getting ace money, and he isn't going to be expected to fit that role.
    A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!

  9. #59
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    Re: 2020 Masahiro Tanaka Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post
    The Yankees don't have a problem producing #3-5 type starters (i.e. Montgomery, German, Garcia).

    Where they fail badly is in developing TOR starters, and this is why they need Bauer. Severino won't be back until late-season, and can't be relied upon for anything until 2022. Bottom line is, you're not winning any championships without at least 2 excellent starters at the top of the rotation. Just look at the two teams playing in the World Series right now as proof.
    Those are all #5 starters, at best. German isn't anything for now. Montgomery and Garcia had 84 and 86 ERA+. That's a #5 pitcher.

    You want Monte and Garcia pitching but not Tanaka with his 120 ERA+?
    A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!

  10. #60
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    Re: 2020 Masahiro Tanaka Performance Thread

    Sure. Tanaka is not a #1 or #2 starter but lets be honest. Outside of Cole who in the rotation can you trust to be better right now. Garcia, Schmidt, German and Severino could be better but for various reasons none are a sure thing right now. Unless the Yankees can add a true #2 starter thru trade or free agent signing they really have no choice. They have to bring Tanaka back.

  11. #61
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    Re: 2020 Masahiro Tanaka Performance Thread

    I too think that the Yankees need Bauer but I don't think bringing back Tanaka would be a bad idea for the back end of the rotation. Granted, his postseason was not good but I think he still would be beneficial as a starter for this team. I wouldn't break the bank to sign him and hopefully, a deal that both sides are happy with, can be worked out.

  12. #62
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    Re: 2020 Masahiro Tanaka Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinStripes View Post
    Those are all #5 starters, at best. German isn't anything for now. Montgomery and Garcia had 84 and 86 ERA+. That's a #5 pitcher.

    You want Monte and Garcia pitching but not Tanaka with his 120 ERA+?
    I want a better allocation of funds. Not sure how you can conclude that Monty and Garcia are nothing more than #5's considering their circumstances, but that's a separate discussion.

    Bottom line is: If signing Tanaka means not enough money left to sign Bauer, then I thank Tanaka for 7 years and move forward with Bauer. It's clear they won't be able to afford both.
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  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post
    Bottom line is: If signing Tanaka means not enough money left to sign Bauer, then I thank Tanaka for 7 years and move forward with Bauer. It's clear they won't be able to afford both.
    No matter they re-sign Tanaka or not, I don't think they would go after Bauer. If they don't re-sign Tanaka, I would assume that it would just be a cost cutting move and they would say that the money is allocated to DJL after the pandemic hit.

  14. #64
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    Re: 2020 Masahiro Tanaka Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post
    I want a better allocation of funds. Not sure how you can conclude that Monty and Garcia are nothing more than #5's considering their circumstances, but that's a separate discussion.

    Bottom line is: If signing Tanaka means not enough money left to sign Bauer, then I thank Tanaka for 7 years and move forward with Bauer. It's clear they won't be able to afford both.
    Of course I'd rather have Bauer than Tanaka, but they need to add at least 2 starters this year.

    Cole
    ???
    Tanaka
    ????
    Severino/German/Monte/Garcia/Whatever for 5 and depth.

    Even just adding Bauer while losing Tanaka is asking for disaster next season. Severino has been hurt since July 2018. German hasn't pitchen in a year. Garcia hasn't proven anything. Monte was a fringe #5 starter. You're asking this group to be the 3, 4 and 5 pitchers?

    And what about when a starter goes down- which will happen?
    A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!

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    Re: 2020 Masahiro Tanaka Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
    No matter they re-sign Tanaka or not, I don't think they would go after Bauer. If they don't re-sign Tanaka, I would assume that it would just be a cost cutting move and they would say that the money is allocated to DJL after the pandemic hit.
    If they're not willing to go after Bauer, or another #1A/#2-type starter, and instead re-sign Tanaka, they can expect the same disappointing outcome they've experienced since 2017...
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  16. #66
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    Re: 2020 Masahiro Tanaka Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinStripes View Post
    Of course I'd rather have Bauer than Tanaka, but they need to add at least 2 starters this year.

    Cole
    ???
    Tanaka
    ????
    Severino/German/Monte/Garcia/Whatever for 5 and depth.

    Even just adding Bauer while losing Tanaka is asking for disaster next season. Severino has been hurt since July 2018. German hasn't pitchen in a year. Garcia hasn't proven anything. Monte was a fringe #5 starter. You're asking this group to be the 3, 4 and 5 pitchers?

    And what about when a starter goes down- which will happen?

    Bottom line: given a choice between Bauer or Tanaka, who do you sign?

    I go with Bauer, because you will be able to find #3-5 starters on the cheap this winter - market will be flooded with non-tenders, and teams won't be spending as much on non-elite talent with revenues down due to COVID-19.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  17. #67
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    Re: 2020 Masahiro Tanaka Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post
    If they're not willing to go after Bauer, or another #1A/#2-type starter, and instead re-sign Tanaka, they can expect the same disappointing outcome they've experienced since 2017...
    But at least then they don't have to think up any new excuses.

  18. #68
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    Re: 2020 Masahiro Tanaka Performance Thread

    It's hard to believe that Tanaka will ever make in the future the contributions he made in those first five years. It may be time to say goodbye.

  19. #69

    Re: 2020 Masahiro Tanaka Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinStripes View Post
    Those are all #5 starters, at best. German isn't anything for now. Montgomery and Garcia had 84 and 86 ERA+. That's a #5 pitcher.

    You want Monte and Garcia pitching but not Tanaka with his 120 ERA+?
    120 ERA+ last year. Over his last 4 seasons it is 103 similar to Happ the last few years. I don't think he is that pitcher he was the first few years anymore and I am not keen on paying for post-season excellence he is unlikely to repeat.

    I also know there is no chance they sign Bauer or anyone better than Tanaka. Since they are "Close" so...

  20. #70
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    Re: 2020 Masahiro Tanaka Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post
    Bottom line: given a choice between Bauer or Tanaka, who do you sign?

    I go with Bauer, because you will be able to find #3-5 starters on the cheap this winter - market will be flooded with non-tenders, and teams won't be spending as much on non-elite talent with revenues down due to COVID-19.
    But that's not the bottom line. The bottom line is that signing Bauer without resigning Tanaka is going to be an absolute disaster. Would I prefer Bauer over Tanaka? Sure, but if they don't sign Bauer, it's not because Tanaka got $14M/yr for 3 years.
    A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!

  21. #71
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    Re: 2020 Masahiro Tanaka Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinStripes View Post
    But that's not the bottom line. The bottom line is that signing Bauer without resigning Tanaka is going to be an absolute disaster. Would I prefer Bauer over Tanaka? Sure, but if they don't sign Bauer, it's not because Tanaka got $14M/yr for 3 years.
    So is the rotation not an even greater disaster if they re-sign Tanaka but not Bauer?

    And yes, if they sign Tanaka, they won't have available budget remaining to sign Bauer too. Not when they need to re-sign DJ as well.

    It really does come down to choosing between signing Bauer or Tanaka.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

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    Re: 2020 Masahiro Tanaka Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post
    So is the rotation not an even greater disaster if they re-sign Tanaka but not Bauer?

    And yes, if they sign Tanaka, they won't have available budget remaining to sign Bauer too. Not when they need to re-sign DJ as well.

    It really does come down to choosing between signing Bauer or Tanaka.
    If all these figures being floated about the extent of money MLB clubs lost (Yankees way up there) due to the pandemic, it's hard for me to believe there will be significant signings this year. Certainly not of Tanaka and also, say, Bauer. I suspect next year's team won't be significantly different from this year's team.

    And what sort of team was that? Up and down and over and out, etc. Win 10 in a row, then lose a bunch in compensation. No real on-field leader who can kick start his teammates, a manager who is a Happy Jack, an owner content to make it into the play-offs (for a while), etc.

    In this second year of the new conditioning regime, it should be possible to see evidence of improvement on the injury front. Perhaps the same on the pitching front, especially in getting guys like Garcia and Schmidt ready for some sort of BP work and getting German together after a year's absence.

    It will probably not be as good a team as 2019, and it will possibly be a team that begins to feel the hot breath of the Blue Jay on its back.

  23. #73

    Re: 2020 Masahiro Tanaka Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post
    So is the rotation not an even greater disaster if they re-sign Tanaka but not Bauer?

    And yes, if they sign Tanaka, they won't have available budget remaining to sign Bauer too. Not when they need to re-sign DJ as well.

    It really does come down to choosing between signing Bauer or Tanaka.
    What makes you think they have the budget to sign DJLM and Bauer? Have you seen something reported somewhere? I have no idea what they are going to be able to spend this year but based on what they are floating around in the exit presser I doubt they have the money for that.

  24. #74
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    Re: 2020 Masahiro Tanaka Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sd. View Post
    What makes you think they have the budget to sign DJLM and Bauer? Have you seen something reported somewhere? I have no idea what they are going to be able to spend this year but based on what they are floating around in the exit presser I doubt they have the money for that.
    Until Hal makes his budget public, none of us knows anything. We're all speculating. Additionally, none of us knows how the market will play out due to the massive losses owners experienced due to COVID. What we can safely assume is that teams will be spending less this winter than they have on the past, and that could certainly impact what Bauer and LeMahieu could earn in free agency.

    As per Sherman, the Yankees should be sitting at $171 million after factoring in existing commitments and raises, and that's not counting any trades to clear additional payroll. So if they really want Bauer, they should have options that will allow them to sign both Bauer and Lemahieu and stay below the $210 million luxury tax threshold - which is Hal's rumored goal.

    And again, we're speculating. He may want to go even lower, or he may decide that it's an opportunity to leverage his financial clout to exploit a depressed market, although I have my doubts that he would go that route.

    Bottom line is, if they re-sign Tanaka for something like $15 million (Rakuten has already offered him $25 million per year to return to Japan), then it means no money for Bauer, which would be a big mistake. And if that's the route they decide to take, then no one should complain when they fall short of the World Series yet again in 2021, because you're just not going to win a championship without at least two high-end starters leading your rotation.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  25. #75
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    Re: 2020 Masahiro Tanaka Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post
    Until Hal makes his budget public, none of us knows anything. We're all speculating. Additionally, none of us knows how the market will play out due to the massive losses owners experienced due to COVID. What we can safely assume is that teams will be spending less this winter than they have on the past, and that could certainly impact what Bauer and LeMahieu could earn in free agency.

    As per Sherman, the Yankees should be sitting at $171 million after factoring in existing commitments and raises, and that's not counting any trades to clear additional payroll. So if they really want Bauer, they should have options that will allow them to sign both Bauer and Lemahieu and stay below the $210 million luxury tax threshold - which is Hal's rumored goal.

    And again, we're speculating. He may want to go even lower, or he may decide that it's an opportunity to leverage his financial clout to exploit a depressed market, although I have my doubts that he would go that route.

    Bottom line is, if they re-sign Tanaka for something like $15 million (Rakuten has already offered him $25 million per year to return to Japan), then it means no money for Bauer, which would be a big mistake. And if that's the route they decide to take, then no one should complain when they fall short of the World Series yet again in 2021, because you're just not going to win a championship without at least two high-end starters leading your rotation.



    Couldn't agree more.. In an ideal world I'd want Bauer and another pitcher, Tanaka would be fine.. And I want to resign DJ and look to upgrade at C..


    But that is an ideal world, and I doubt we are close to living in that. If we resign DJ and add Bauer, at this point, I'd probably take it and run, even though I would want more.
    I used to think I was crazy... Now I am sure of it..

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