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  1. #376
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    Re: 2020 Gary Sanchez Performance Thread

    Sanchez isn’t intellectually flexible enough to look inwards and consistently work on and try to fix whatever it is he needs to fix to become the elite player he is capable of, or maybe he’s simply not into self-improvement. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    I’m tired of his act.

  2. #377
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2020 Gary Sanchez Performance Thread

    He’s fat, he’s lazy, he’s stupid, he doesn’t care.

    Or maybe he just isn’t as good as we thought.

  3. #378
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    Re: 2020 Gary Sanchez Performance Thread

    If Sanchez & Andujar (+ a pitching prospect along with quality filler) is enough to bring back a solid, healthy #2 starter, then I'd have to think it improves the team and it's chances during the window of time it still has to get back to the WS.

    Can anyone think of a possible trade partner that needs offense and has an expendable, solid healthy #2 starter?
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  4. #379
    New Murderer's Row False1's Avatar
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    Re: 2020 Gary Sanchez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    If Sanchez & Andujar (+ a pitching prospect along with quality filler) is enough to bring back a solid, healthy #2 starter, then I'd have to think it improves the team and it's chances during the window of time it still has to get back to the WS.

    Can anyone think of a possible trade partner that needs offense and has an expendable, solid healthy #2 starter?
    I don't think that those two + filler are netting you a top of the rotation starter. I'd love to see it happen of course.

  5. #380

    Re: 2020 Gary Sanchez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    If Sanchez & Andujar (+ a pitching prospect along with quality filler) is enough to bring back a solid, healthy #2 starter, then I'd have to think it improves the team and it's chances during the window of time it still has to get back to the WS.

    Can anyone think of a possible trade partner that needs offense and has an expendable, solid healthy #2 starter?
    Sanchez and Andujar don't have much value. Sanchez is barely above a DFA candidate. Andujar can't play the field, so the Yankees might as well hold him until he can or until the DH is a permanent fixture in the NL.

    I think the team may have to trade Frazier for pitching.

  6. #381
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    Re: 2020 Gary Sanchez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by primetime714 View Post
    Sanchez and Andujar don't have much value. Sanchez is barely above a DFA candidate. Andujar can't play the field, so the Yankees might as well hold him until he can or until the DH is a permanent fixture in the NL.

    I think the team may have to trade Frazier for pitching.
    I'd rather they bring back Cessa and give King 20 starts than give up on Frazier to fill a holein the backend of the rotation.
    “Nobody teaches life anything.” - Gabriel García Márquez

  7. #382

    Re: 2020 Gary Sanchez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ojo View Post
    I'd rather they bring back Cessa and give King 20 starts than give up on Frazier to fill a holein the backend of the rotation.
    Who said back-end? I’d be shopping Frazier in a package for a controlled #2. German Marquez maybe.

  8. #383
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    Re: 2020 Gary Sanchez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by primetime714 View Post
    Who said back-end? I’d be shopping Frazier in a package for a controlled #2. German Marquez maybe.
    Maybe I'm under-appreciating Frazier's perceived value to other teams.
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  9. #384
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    Re: 2020 Gary Sanchez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by primetime714 View Post
    Sanchez and Andujar don't have much value. Sanchez is barely above a DFA candidate. Andujar can't play the field, so the Yankees might as well hold him until he can or until the DH is a permanent fixture in the NL.

    I think the team may have to trade Frazier for pitching.
    I love Frazier and believe it would be a big mistake to trade him.

    All that said, after the way he was used during the last week of the season/post-season, it’s clear that Boone/Cashman still envision Gardner as their starting LF. When the games mattered most, they didn’t trust him. In this scenario, they may as well trade him for pitching if they are just going to waste him on the bench.
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  10. #385
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    Re: 2020 Gary Sanchez Performance Thread

    I'd like to know for sure if the NL adopts the DH position for 2021 - I think this will have a very positive effect on Sanchez' (and Andujar's) value.

    I've been looking through the Braves' roster and also their prospects. I would guess that Sanchez and/or Andujar would both be attractive to them, they really are deep in pitching prospects and have a few other interesting position player prospects @ 1B,3B,C and SS.
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  11. #386
    New Murderer's Row False1's Avatar
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    Re: 2020 Gary Sanchez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    I'd like to know for sure if the NL adopts the DH position for 2021 - I think this will have a very positive effect on Sanchez' (and Andujar's) value.

    I've been looking through the Braves' roster and also their prospects. I would guess that Sanchez and/or Andujar would both be attractive to them, they really are deep in pitching prospects and have a few other interesting position player prospects @ 1B,3B,C and SS.
    Why would anyone find Sanchez attractive as a DH at all, let alone in the context you are using which is as a key piece of a deal for a top of the rotation starter?

    Over the last three seasons, he's had a .200 / .296 / .453 triple slash.

    This most recent partial season was .147 / .253 / .365 (68 OPS+).

    He's set to earn a bit over $5MM in arb and is out of options.

    I could see an NL team perhaps rolling the dice and gambling on a rebound, but the Yankees would practically have to give him away at that salary. At this point, non-tendering him is probably something the Yankees are considering.

    Since his breakout rookie season, Andujar has had significant shoulder surgery and not much else. In the two seasons since, he's put up a .193 / .219 / .257 triple slash in about 100 PA.

    Would a team needing to add a DH like to have him in their system to see if he can snap all the way back to 2018? Sure - he has several years until he hits free agency and would be a decent, low cost gamble to take for a team needing a DH. But again, that's not something teams are giving up #2 SP for. You are way overvaluing guys that are at best viewed as spare parts right now in their own organizations. Quality is valued over quantity when dealing actual assets like top starters. You can't cobble together filler and expect teams to give you real value in return.

    It's possible those two get traded, and I think an NL team needing a DH might be interested, but don't get your hopes up on what would come back in return.

  12. #387

    Re: 2020 Gary Sanchez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post
    I love Frazier and believe it would be a big mistake to trade him.

    All that said, after the way he was used during the last week of the season/post-season, it’s clear that Boone/Cashman still envision Gardner as their starting LF. When the games mattered most, they didn’t trust him. In this scenario, they may as well trade him for pitching if they are just going to waste him on the bench.
    Yea my rationale for considering it has nothing to do with not liking Frazier. He's another righty corner OF only bat with a high K% and is he by FAR the most tradeable asset in that OF. And getting quality production out of corner OF comes cheaper than top end pitching, so I'm open to it. So theoretically you could run a platoon of Gardner/Tauchman and Andujar or another righty bat without barely spending any money. You won't get the same production as Frazier, but you can still get good production. Finding a #2 starter is far more expensive and challenging. If Hal wants to stay under the luxury tax (very real possibility) and the team signs DJ (they have to). Their only option to add a top of the rotation starter may be to trade Frazier. Guys like Andujar and Sanchez don't have that kind of value, in fact their values are at all time lows. I don't think Voit returns that much either because of his defense and he has less future value than Frazier. Perhaps he could return a lesser starter or someone with less control, but in terms of immediate value to the Yankees I think Voit and Frazier are a relative wash with Voit having slightly higher value to the Yankees, but Frazier having more trade value to other organizations when you combine his youth and ability to play both corner OF positions pretty well (based on this year) especially RF.

    Frazier's value is sky high too. I don't see it getting much higher. His defense was great and he essentially showed the optimal potential there this year, I don't think there's room for improvement unless he somehow picks up CF which he'll never be allowed to. And until Judge gets injured Frazier will be in LF, but he has more value in RF with a top notch arm. His 15.5% walk rate may also be unsustainable. He's been closer to 10% in his major/minors career and he largely achieved that by being in the bottom 5 of all of baseball in Swing%. Pitchers could adjust, I think Frazier could adjust to that too, but just explaining it as a potential risk factor.

  13. #388
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    Re: 2020 Gary Sanchez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Since his breakout rookie season, Andujar has had significant shoulder surgery and not much else. In the two seasons since, he's put up a .193 / .219 / .257 triple slash in about 100 PA.

    Would a team needing to add a DH like to have him in their system to see if he can snap all the way back to 2018? Sure - he has several years until he hits free agency and would be a decent, low cost gamble to take for a team needing a DH.
    I agree with your entire post. I'm just quoting this part of it because perhaps Andujar could bring back any one (maybe even two) of these Braves prospects:

    Tucker Davidson - LHP
    Braden Shewmake - SS
    CJ Alexander - 3B
    Bryce Ball - 1B
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  14. #389

    Re: 2020 Gary Sanchez Performance Thread

    Andujar has maybe slightly more value than Jose Martinez who was just recently traded for 2 players to be named later. Someone will try to pickup him up for 10 cents on the dollar, but you won't get much more right now.

    Same goes for Sanchez, but a slightly different scenario because he'll be making more and thus if his production doesn't bounce back he's not even worth his salary so there's actual risk with Sanchez.

  15. #390

    Re: 2020 Gary Sanchez Performance Thread

    Looking at Sanchez month by month in 2019, I think it'd be a mistake to give up on him based on a 2 month COVID season. If they do, I can completely see him as Sonny Gray part II.

  16. #391
    New Murderer's Row False1's Avatar
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    Re: 2020 Gary Sanchez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by primetime714 View Post
    Yea my rationale for considering it has nothing to do with not liking Frazier. He's another righty corner OF only bat with a high K% and is he by FAR the most tradeable asset in that OF. And getting quality production out of corner OF comes cheaper than top end pitching, so I'm open to it. So theoretically you could run a platoon of Gardner/Tauchman and Andujar or another righty bat without barely spending any money. You won't get the same production as Frazier, but you can still get good production. Finding a #2 starter is far more expensive and challenging. If Hal wants to stay under the luxury tax (very real possibility) and the team signs DJ (they have to). Their only option to add a top of the rotation starter may be to trade Frazier. Guys like Andujar and Sanchez don't have that kind of value, in fact their values are at all time lows. I don't think Voit returns that much either because of his defense and he has less future value than Frazier. Perhaps he could return a lesser starter or someone with less control, but in terms of immediate value to the Yankees I think Voit and Frazier are a relative wash with Voit having slightly higher value to the Yankees, but Frazier having more trade value to other organizations when you combine his youth and ability to play both corner OF positions pretty well (based on this year) especially RF.

    Frazier's value is sky high too. I don't see it getting much higher. His defense was great and he essentially showed the optimal potential there this year, I don't think there's room for improvement unless he somehow picks up CF which he'll never be allowed to. And until Judge gets injured Frazier will be in LF, but he has more value in RF with a top notch arm. His 15.5% walk rate may also be unsustainable. He's been closer to 10% in his major/minors career and he largely achieved that by being in the bottom 5 of all of baseball in Swing%. Pitchers could adjust, I think Frazier could adjust to that too, but just explaining it as a potential risk factor.
    Yeah, Voit's relative value takes a bit of a hit given his defense and his age, but still that bat is certified legit and he's proven the ability to play through injury and produce as well. They'd get a nice return if they put him on the market, especially if we suddenly have 15 NL teams needing to find a permanent solution at DH.

    Frazier's value should be pretty high given the vast improvement in defense and the ongoing production at the plate. Although towards the end of the year odd enough he did start taking some bad routes again... what I really liked as well about Frazier was he improved his K/BB rate by >250% last year versus his career rates up to that point. Less K's, more walks, good barrel rates... I hope they can find a way to keep him. They need a strong LFer if they're going to insist on Stanton as a permanent DH.

  17. #392
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    Re: 2020 Gary Sanchez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sd. View Post
    Looking at Sanchez month by month in 2019, I think it'd be a mistake to give up on him based on a 2 month COVID season. If they do, I can completely see him as Sonny Gray part II.
    For his sake, I think a change of scenery will help him. He is trying hard to improve but the pressure of NY may be too much for him! The problem is, what value does he have now?🤔

  18. #393
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    Re: 2020 Gary Sanchez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty one View Post
    For his sake, I think a change of scenery will help him. He is trying hard to improve but the pressure of NY may be too much for him! The problem is, what value does he have now?🤔
    Agree: every problem he has, whether it be K's galore or fielding miscues, is magnified because of where it is he plays. It is entirely possible that, sent elsewhere, he might become another Sonny Gray. The problem facing the Yankees, though, is whether, remaining in New York, he continues to be the Sanchez who hits nearly 70 points below the Mendoza line, K's every 2.7 appearances at the place, is a defensive drawback, etc. How long can he remain a Yankee and be open to such challenges to his skill? If he becomes like Gray, elsewhere, is this worse for the Yankees than maintaining him in NY??

  19. #394
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    Re: 2020 Gary Sanchez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty one View Post
    For his sake, I think a change of scenery will help him. He is trying hard to improve but the pressure of NY may be too much for him! The problem is, what value does he have now?🤔
    I tend to agree. Just seems like the more they've tinkered with him, the more he's regressed.

    I believe a change of scenery is the only thing that will resurrect his career - needs to go somewhere where he'll just be allowed to be himself, warts and all. He'll never be a great defensive C, but if a team is willing to accept his flaws in exchange for 30+ HR and a .240/.330/.500 slash line, that would be the ideal situation for him.
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  20. #395
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    Re: 2020 Gary Sanchez Performance Thread

    The problem with Gary is really that it is impossible to project for him..


    We don't know what Gerrit Cole will do, but if I said top 5 in CY voting, and 15-20 wins and a near 3 ERA for a full season, most would agree. That is a reasonable projection.


    I would mention Stanton and Judge and say they can be impact players and deadly hitters, both with 50 HR potential and a ton of Ks, and that both will likely miss decent time due to injury. Again a reasonable projection..


    The point is those guys are predictable. Gary is really not..


    This past year was a disaster, but it happened during a weird and crazy covid season, in which we need to be careful about judging anyone. It may be hard to imagine, but the last time we had a full season and any all star game, in 2019, less than 2 years ago, Gary Sanchez was the starter for the AL and arguably amongst the best at his position. This was not 10 years ago, it was less than 2 years ago and was during the last "normal" season we had..


    So what is Gary? If you tell me he hits .180 with 20 homers and is an automatic out most times next year before losing his job permanently, I'd believe you. If you said he hits .270 with 35 homers, 90+ RBI and gets back to being the best or nearly best catcher in the game, I'd also believe you.



    His value is never going to be lower, so for me, I would keep him, and let him compete for the job next spring training. Still think there is a big upside here, and I want to be sure if there is, we find it. As someone said, I would be royally ticked watching the position player version of Sonny Gray kick butt somewhere else. It is likely not possible for him to lower his vakue any further, so what do we have to lose?
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  21. #396
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    Re: 2020 Gary Sanchez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by aeromac76 View Post
    The problem with Gary is really that it is impossible to project for him..


    We don't know what Gerrit Cole will do, but if I said top 5 in CY voting, and 15-20 wins and a near 3 ERA for a full season, most would agree. That is a reasonable projection.


    I would mention Stanton and Judge and say they can be impact players and deadly hitters, both with 50 HR potential and a ton of Ks, and that both will likely miss decent time due to injury. Again a reasonable projection..


    The point is those guys are predictable. Gary is really not..


    This past year was a disaster, but it happened during a weird and crazy covid season, in which we need to be careful about judging anyone. It may be hard to imagine, but the last time we had a full season and any all star game, in 2019, less than 2 years ago, Gary Sanchez was the starter for the AL and arguably amongst the best at his position. This was not 10 years ago, it was less than 2 years ago and was during the last "normal" season we had..


    So what is Gary? If you tell me he hits .180 with 20 homers and is an automatic out most times next year before losing his job permanently, I'd believe you. If you said he hits .270 with 35 homers, 90+ RBI and gets back to being the best or nearly best catcher in the game, I'd also believe you.



    His value is never going to be lower, so for me, I would keep him, and let him compete for the job next spring training. Still think there is a big upside here, and I want to be sure if there is, we find it. As someone said, I would be royally ticked watching the position player version of Sonny Gray kick butt somewhere else. It is likely not possible for him to lower his vakue any further, so what do we have to lose?
    Where I disagree with you is the notion Gary was even close to being the best catcher in baseball. He’s always been a dumpster fire behind the plate. The differences are whether or not his offense offsets the fire, and how large the fire would become.
    “Nobody teaches life anything.” - Gabriel García Márquez

  22. #397

    Re: 2020 Gary Sanchez Performance Thread

    Gary's FRAA Adj stats

    2016 1.2
    2017 7.2
    2018 -1
    2019 -6.1

    If you look at the breakdown of the components, you can see as the Yankees have tried to fix him over the years and had him change things up to work on his blocking, they have actually been breaking him more by taking away from his pitch framing strengths.

  23. #398
    2009 WORLD CHAMPIONS aeromac76's Avatar
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    Re: 2020 Gary Sanchez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ojo View Post
    Where I disagree with you is the notion Gary was even close to being the best catcher in baseball. He’s always been a dumpster fire behind the plate. The differences are whether or not his offense offsets the fire, and how large the fire would become.

    He always had a cannon of an arm, and could negate the running game. When you couple that with his bat, from a value standpoint, he was right up there.. For instance he was 8th in WAR in 2019, and some of the guys ahead of him really did not play much or are not guys you would have ever take over him..


    Nonetheless, not trying to debate where Gary ranks as a catcher in baseball, my point is that as of VERY recently, he was extremely valuable at his position, amongst the most valuable. The question is, do we throw out this Covid season dumpster fire and take one more shot with him in a full/normal season, assuming and hoping next year qualifies?
    I used to think I was crazy... Now I am sure of it..

  24. #399
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    Re: 2020 Gary Sanchez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by aeromac76 View Post
    So what is Gary? If you tell me he hits .180 with 20 homers and is an automatic out most times next year before losing his job permanently, I'd believe you. If you said he hits .270 with 35 homers, 90+ RBI and gets back to being the best or nearly best catcher in the game, I'd also believe you.

    His value is never going to be lower, so for me, I would keep him, and let him compete for the job next spring training. Still think there is a big upside here, and I want to be sure if there is, we find it. As someone said, I would be royally ticked watching the position player version of Sonny Gray kick butt somewhere else. It is likely not possible for him to lower his value any further, so what do we have to lose?
    Excellent points. His 2020/three month performance was very concerning, but if we look at the big picture (including realistic replacement options) it's probably still very logical & reasonable to go into ST with Sanchez/Higashioka as battery mates. The organization has spent lots of time and money trying to help Gary improve, I doubt after a weird weird season like this one they'll just throw in the towel.

    I do believe that the fan base as a whole has given up on Sanchez, which in itself may be hard to overcome. Thankfully though, the organization will sometimes disagree with popular opinion.
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  25. #400
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    Re: 2020 Gary Sanchez Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by aeromac76 View Post
    He always had a cannon of an arm, and could negate the running game. When you couple that with his bat, from a value standpoint, he was right up there.. For instance he was 8th in WAR in 2019, and some of the guys ahead of him really did not play much or are not guys you would have ever take over him..


    Nonetheless, not trying to debate where Gary ranks as a catcher in baseball, my point is that as of VERY recently, he was extremely valuable at his position, amongst the most valuable. The question is, do we throw out this Covid season dumpster fire and take one more shot with him in a full/normal season, assuming and hoping next year qualifies?
    I will cop to having a mostly irrational distate for Sanchez' game (for years). Frankly, I think his game represents a significant handicap to the Yankee pitching staff. And the idea you have to fix a catcher so that he's passable behind the plate should be setting off alarm bells.
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