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  1. #1626
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    Re: 2020 Spring Training

    Quote Originally Posted by Bauer View Post
    Somewhere I have a tape (probably a vhs of a kinescope) of the 6th or 7th game of the 1952 World Series, Yanks vs Dodgers. The men in the crowd are well dressed. Hats, ties, some overcoats (a chilly day?). Entirely different from the contemporary look--whether they be dressed in MLB paraphernalia or other forms of caz attire. Some think the change has been all for the better. Loosen us all up, etc. Mebbe yez, mebbe no.
    On the flip side I will never understand how men wore suits and ties on muggy summer day games in the sun before the 60's. Was it that culturally offensive to be comfortable?
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  2. #1627
    I.P. Standing Krall's Avatar
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    Re: 2020 Spring Training

    Not that is really matters but how does Ellsbury’s release and money owed work out in this shutdown?

  3. #1628
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    Re: 2020 Spring Training

    Quote Originally Posted by Krall View Post
    Not that is really matters but how does Ellsbury’s release and money owed work out in this shutdown?
    Good question. I think the union wins on behalf of Ells and he gets full payment and that payment gets applied to teams luxury tax burden.

  4. #1629
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    Re: 2020 Spring Training

    Quote Originally Posted by Krall View Post
    Not that is really matters but how does Ellsbury’s release and money owed work out in this shutdown?
    More upset if we pay a luxury tax this year (why?). One, I am just happy Ells is gone. (I think check the spreadsheet) The grievance is still there so I don't think Ells is getting anything. Look I posted last year I was happy to see Brian do this; why not, we would have to pay him anyways. (Ells case is weak "I didn't know I needed permission to go outside" but so is ours) I love to see him lose but feel this will be settled between both parties for something in-between. But the arbitrator, Mark Irvings, did NOT give Kris Bryant that year of service for 12 days in the minors. I don't think the shutdown is a factor but like Mark Irvings taking his time (Dec 19, 2019) so if I was Ells I would be talking turkey. Stay tune.

  5. #1630
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    Re: 2020 Spring Training

    Quote Originally Posted by Krall View Post
    Not that is really matters but how does Ellsbury’s release and money owed work out in this shutdown?
    More pertinent is how the CBT thresholds are treated. If salaries are pro-rated, but the thresholds are unchanged, no team likely exceeds the thresholds.

    And, if the entire season is lost, doesn’t every team reset?
    Forgive me for taking the Contrarian view

  6. #1631
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    Re: 2020 Spring Training

    Quote Originally Posted by longtimeyankeefan View Post
    More pertinent is how the CBT thresholds are treated. If salaries are pro-rated, but the thresholds are unchanged, no team likely exceeds the thresholds.

    And, if the entire season is lost, doesn’t every team reset?
    If they do a simple pro-rating of the salaries, I can't imagine they won't pro-rate the luxury tax. In other situations, it could get more complicated.

    But I think the important thing is the human toll here. Imagine how hard this must be on Ellsbury, sitting at home, away from the game he love to play. That's the real tragedy.

  7. #1632
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    Re: 2020 Spring Training

    If they don’t play any games in their home stadiums and with all the lost revenue I think the luxury tax threshold penalties get waived this season. The longer it takes to start the season, the more I think that’s going to happen.
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  8. #1633

    Re: 2020 Spring Training

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    If they don’t play any games in their home stadiums and with all the lost revenue I think the luxury tax threshold penalties get waived this season. The longer it takes to start the season, the more I think that’s going to happen.
    Yea, I'd be surprised if they have luxury tax penalties. Seems unfair given contracts were given out under circumstances that included fan attendance revenue especially for large market teams that have more attendance and they'd be the ones paying it. That seems like an easy expense to go as I'm sure the league will be prioritizing keeping people employed.

    I think all the highest paid players will have to take a paycut too on top of prorating against games played. The owners and top paid players are the going to be the one taking the biggest hit. I know some people think this is a money grab, but I actually think there's probably not going to be much money made by the owners and they'll do this to curb or minimize loss and also from a PR standpoint because the alternative is that they essentially have to put more people on the unemployment line for another year. Call me naive, but businesses everywhere are making short-term financial sacrifices because they don't want to be the employer in the news that has to lay off more of the workforce as its really bad PR right now. MLB will have to do their fair share of layoffs/furloughs and already has with stadium staff, but a lot less so if there is a season. And if the players are getting paid they'll be feeling a lot of pressure to give back too as high earners in our society and a season even at reduced pay allows them to help from a charitable perspective. Its good PR all-around to have baseball even if its some warped form of it.

  9. #1634
    I.P. Standing Krall's Avatar
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    Re: 2020 Spring Training

    Quote Originally Posted by BUZZARDS BAY View Post
    Good question. I think the union wins on behalf of Ells and he gets full payment and that payment gets applied to teams luxury tax burden.
    I thought no players were getting full salary this year?

  10. #1635
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    Re: 2020 Spring Training

    Quote Originally Posted by Krall View Post
    I thought no players were getting full salary this year?
    Good point. I believe that may be true for players on the active roster. Haven't seen a definitive ruling to date. Not sure it would extend for those on the DL.

  11. #1636
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    Re: 2020 Spring Training

    Quote Originally Posted by Donnybaseball72 View Post
    On the flip side I will never understand how men wore suits and ties on muggy summer day games in the sun before the 60's. Was it that culturally offensive to be comfortable?
    Of course, the game I'm talking about occurred late in the WS, game 6 or 7. It may also have been on a Saturday or Sunday. If the latter, well, in those years people often-to-normally went to church on Sunday.

    Apart from that, and as I think back to summers in the Delaware River Valley in the summer, things were, indeed, pretty grim in July and often right through to mid-September. It wasn't, though, a matter of giving cultural offense, however. I'm not sure how to describe it, but one measure would be the sight, on Sunday morning, of people entering a nearby church for a baptism (baby and baby's part, all dolled up, etc.). I'd say 50% of the attendees going in--I stood and watched--were dressed in coats and ties. But the rest were dressed anywhere from casually to what I took to be a bizarre flamboyance of the casual (shorts, flip-flops, etc.). In 1953, unthinkable. People from the Planet Mongo, etc.

    My first ball game occurred in May 1953 at Shibe Park. A warm night. People in shirt sleeves. No jerseys. (Musial hit a triple.)

    My puzzlement: how the hell did they plan the campaigns for World War II in early 1940s D.C? Were those buildings air conditioned in those days?

  12. #1637
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    Re: 2020 Spring Training

    Quote Originally Posted by BUZZARDS BAY View Post
    Good point. I believe that may be true for players on the active roster. Haven't seen a definitive ruling to date. Not sure it would extend for those on the DL.
    So, players who can play will only get a partial salary, covering those games that actually occurred, but players who can't play will get paid for the whole season? That can't possibly be right.

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
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  13. #1638
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    Re: 2020 Spring Training

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    So, players who can play will only get a partial salary, covering those games that actually occurred, but players who can't play will get paid for the whole season? That can't possibly be right.
    Ellsbury was released before this and I would think he's due his full salary by contract. Had the Yankees kept him on the 40 man I think he'd be treated like everyone else. I would assume Tulowitski is still getting his final year salary from Toronto.


    But I'm not a lawyer so I could be wrong.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  14. #1639
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    Re: 2020 Spring Training

    Quote Originally Posted by Bauer View Post
    Apart from that, and as I think back to summers in the Delaware River Valley in the summer, things were, indeed, pretty grim in July and often right through to mid-September. It wasn't, though, a matter of giving cultural offense, however. I'm not sure how to describe it, but one measure would be the sight, on Sunday morning, of people entering a nearby church for a baptism (baby and baby's part, all dolled up, etc.). I'd say 50% of the attendees going in--I stood and watched--were dressed in coats and ties. But the rest were dressed anywhere from casually to what I took to be a bizarre flamboyance of the casual (shorts, flip-flops, etc.). In 1953, unthinkable. People from the Planet Mongo, etc.
    You really can't compare a sporting event to a Church ceremony. One is very casual and the other is supposed to be very formal. Weddings included. I would say the slobs who went to a baptism in flip flops have probably not been inside a Church since their teens and only went because they were invited and there is an open bar at the reception afterwards.
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  15. #1640
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    Re: 2020 Spring Training

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    So, players who can play will only get a partial salary, covering those games that actually occurred, but players who can't play will get paid for the whole season? That can't possibly be right.
    I don't know all the details but I think you are right. I think the bargaining agreement is to May 24th. Players (including the minors who stopped getting paid earlier posts (Athletics) are getting something. The earlier posts were right pro rated by their salary.

    The $4,775-per-day amount is for veteran players with large single contracts. They were given a chance to opt out, but none of them did, so they could simplify and streamline the process, per the players' association on Tuesday.

    https://www.newsweek.com/pro-basebal...er-day-1495374

    FYI. Just saw this today. Athletic reports Mansfield might ask the players take less this next negotiations if there is no fans. I feel something will be done in May.

    https://theathletic.com/1752070/2020...take-less-pay/
    Last edited by bucky; 04-17-20 at 08:05 AM. Reason: Athletic update

  16. #1641
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    Re: 2020 Spring Training

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    So, players who can play will only get a partial salary, covering those games that actually occurred, but players who can't play will get paid for the whole season? That can't possibly be right.
    I don't believe I said active players would only receive partial salary.
    Not sure active players pay status has been decided as of now. Again, it's my understanding players on disability are governed by different contract language.

  17. #1642
    I.P. Standing Krall's Avatar
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    Re: 2020 Spring Training

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Ellsbury was released before this and I would think he's due his full salary by contract. Had the Yankees kept him on the 40 man I think he'd be treated like everyone else. I would assume Tulowitski is still getting his final year salary from Toronto.


    But I'm not a lawyer so I could be wrong.
    Interesting point and you're basing it on they'd get their full salary for not playing anyway?

    If that's true I'm sure there'd be so pissed off players not getting much.

  18. #1643
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    Re: 2020 Spring Training

    Quote Originally Posted by Krall View Post
    Interesting point and you're basing it on they'd get their full salary for not playing anyway?

    If that's true I'm sure there'd be so pissed off players not getting much.
    If Ellsbury is a member of the PA, wouldn’t the agreement cover him?
    Forgive me for taking the Contrarian view

  19. #1644
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    Re: 2020 Spring Training

    Quote Originally Posted by longtimeyankeefan View Post
    If Ellsbury is a member of the PA, wouldn’t the agreement cover him?
    This is correct. I saw in AP that no more negotiations about taking any further cuts if there are no fans. I think this agreement ends sometime in May but I don't know. There are lay off coming. I still think the Yankees are NOT paying Ells because of the outstanding grievance and are actually seeking money back. Interesting. Like the earlier posts: partial payment based on the salary. FYI

    This was a summary in Rotoworld.
    The players already agreed to give up 1/162nd of their base pay for each regular season game lost, and it sounds like they have no intention of taking an additional salary cut. It could be a sticking point in negotiations if the league ultimately does decide to play games in empty stadiums.



    https://apnews.com/c11a2c671c69868fb11acc2b57b0fb70

  20. #1645
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    Re: 2020 Spring Training

    Quote Originally Posted by bucky View Post
    This is correct. I saw in AP that no more negotiations about taking any further cuts if there are no fans. I think this agreement ends sometime in May but I don't know. There are lay off coming. I still think the Yankees are NOT paying Ells because of the outstanding grievance and are actually seeking money back. Interesting. Like the earlier posts: partial payment based on the salary. FYI

    This was a summary in Rotoworld.
    The players already agreed to give up 1/162nd of their base pay for each regular season game lost, and it sounds like they have no intention of taking an additional salary cut. It could be a sticking point in negotiations if the league ultimately does decide to play games in empty stadiums.



    https://apnews.com/c11a2c671c69868fb11acc2b57b0fb70
    It's a hard thing to negotiate until you know what the playing conditions are. I doubt they'll consider additional cuts until the plans are more concrete. If it's not tenable for owners to put their teams back on the field, that may persuade players.

    Ellsbury, though, should still get his full salary. In any scenario, he'll be doing exactly what he's done the past couple of years to earn his salary.

  21. #1646
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    Re: 2020 Spring Training

    Quote Originally Posted by YFIB View Post
    It's a hard thing to negotiate until you know what the playing conditions are. I doubt they'll consider additional cuts until the plans are more concrete. If it's not tenable for owners to put their teams back on the field, that may persuade players.

    Ellsbury, though, should still get his full salary. In any scenario, he'll be doing exactly what he's done the past couple of years to earn his salary.
    THANKS I needed this. I am clueless as to what will happen. Arizona - Arizona and Florida - Arizona - Florida - Texas but as for me (it changes) even if they open up the ballparks, hotels, and restaurants I am probably staying away (I travel).

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