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  1. #101

    Re: Red Sox Cheating Investigation

    An advance scout who is responsible for stealing signs is given the job as replay operators. Yet no one knew he would steal signs during the game.

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  2. #102
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    Re: Red Sox Cheating Investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by BUZZARDS BAY View Post
    This post hits the nail on the head.
    " basically found nothing"
    Most were wishing for a felony conviction and the charge was simple jaywalking.
    FYI, ped and domestic abuse is far worst, yet swept under the rug by fans. That has got to change.
    Congratulations. You can continue to root for a team that cheats in a town full of them that never seems to get the appropriate punishment to deter their behavior.

    No, this wasn't the Astros stealing live signs and communicating them to any hitter they chose to in real time. But it is using near-real time video to enable the stealing and communication of signs to players that would have not otherwise been possible without technology. AND it was their second offense, occurring after the commissioner warned them of "severe consequences" for future infractions. The Yankees paid stiffer consequences for signing Gerritt Cole, unless you think the loss of a replay operator for a year more than covers the difference between a comp pick and a second rounder. And no one apparently knew he was doing this, although he did change the sequences from the ones he provided pre-game, during the game. Gee, wonder how a replay operator might be able to do that. Derrrrrrrr.... Bottom line is Manfred is an absolute joke and needs to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by BUZZARDS BAY View Post
    Fair enough. When people get upset it's not unusual to exaggerate a little. I recognized that with your Houston reference. The one point Davidoff made that I thought was key is when he stated it would come as no surprise if video replay tech's league wide were doing the exact same thing. Not an exact quote but words to the effect. Be well.
    So I see the SOSH defenses of "everyone was probably doing it" and "it's not as bad as pedophilia or domestic abuse" are the go to's right now.

    The Astros and Red Sox are both lucky this didn't break a year earlier. Time off from baseball is going to allow this whole thing to be forgotten without a price being paid since the commissioner is a total wuss.

  3. #103
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    Re: Red Sox Cheating Investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Congratulations. You can continue to root for a team that cheats in a town full of them that never seems to get the appropriate punishment to deter their behavior.

    No, this wasn't the Astros stealing live signs and communicating them to any hitter they chose to in real time. But it is using near-real time video to enable the stealing and communication of signs to players that would have not otherwise been possible without technology. AND it was their second offense, occurring after the commissioner warned them of "severe consequences" for future infractions. The Yankees paid stiffer consequences for signing Gerritt Cole, unless you think the loss of a replay operator for a year more than covers the difference between a comp pick and a second rounder. And no one apparently knew he was doing this, although he did change the sequences from the ones he provided pre-game, during the game. Gee, wonder how a replay operator might be able to do that. Derrrrrrrr.... Bottom line is Manfred is an absolute joke and needs to go.

    So I see the SOSH defenses of "everyone was probably doing it" and "it's not as bad as pedophilia or domestic abuse" are the go to's right now.

    The Astros and Red Sox are both lucky this didn't break a year earlier. Time off from baseball is going to allow this whole thing to be forgotten without a price being paid since the commissioner is a total wuss.
    The go to's that you referenced are 100% pertinent. Ped's are outlawed and game changers all day every day. Domestic abuse rises above all that's being discussed.
    As for the everyone is doing it defense you might want to copy NY Post writer Ken Davidoff with your feelings since it was something he made note of in his story. Most non biased fans will see the wisdom in his thoughts.

  4. #104
    New Murderer's Row False1's Avatar
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    Re: Red Sox Cheating Investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by BUZZARDS BAY View Post
    The go to's that you referenced are 100% pertinent. Ped's are outlawed and game changers all day every day. Domestic abuse rises above all that's being discussed.
    This is the definition of a strawman argument. There's other things that are all worse than using technology to steal signs in game. Murder. Selling heroine to children. Rooting for the Red Sox. Yet, no one was making that argument and it has nothing to do with the fact that the Red Sox as repeat offenders should have faced stiffer penalties. As should have the Astros. Manfred screwed the pooch on this whole thing.

    As for the everyone is doing it defense you might want to copy NY Post writer Ken Davidoff with your feelings since it was something he made note of in his story. Most non biased fans will see the wisdom in his thoughts.
    If Manfred thinks that all other teams are doing this he should investigate them as well. That's a throw away quote and it alters nothing about what the Red Sox were actually proven to have done... again. The "all the cool kids are doing it" defense is about as lame as it gets.

  5. #105
    New Murderer's Row False1's Avatar
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    Re: Red Sox Cheating Investigation

    As an aside, can you just come clean and remain clean about your rooting interests? There are many well respected Red Sox fans that have been here longer than I have that root for the forum's rival. There were even pure trolls that at least were honest that (in my opinion anyway) added something to the forum (TheoSchmeo comes to mind, although he eventually went overboard and got RO'd). I can appreciate an honest troll, once they come out in the open.

  6. #106
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    Re: Red Sox Cheating Investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by BUZZARDS BAY View Post
    I think you're confusing Cora with Beltran. It's common knowledge Beltran was the architect in Houston.
    I think you're confusing this with a Red Sox fan site where people would buy your inventions. Can you please source your made-up common knowledge that says Beltran alone was the architect, and Cora not worthy of significant mention?

    It's funny, googling for literally those terms, I only get articles that reference Cora as an "architect":

    https://www.si.com/mlb/2020/01/15/re...-cora-cheating

    "Commissioner Rob Manfred’s report depicts Cora as a key architect and advocate of the Astros sign-stealing scheme"


    So weird how the official sources seem to cast more blame on the 2021 Red Sox manager than you do.

  7. #107
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    Re: Red Sox Cheating Investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    As an aside, can you just come clean and remain clean about your rooting interests? There are many well respected Red Sox fans that have been here longer than I have that root for the forum's rival. There were even pure trolls that at least were honest that (in my opinion anyway) added something to the forum (TheoSchmeo comes to mind, although he eventually went overboard and got RO'd). I can appreciate an honest troll, once they come out in the open.


    Back when Jim was running things, misrepresenting your rooting interest for the purposes of trolling was a banning offense. Then again, Jim wasn't feckless. I miss his feck.
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  8. #108

    Re: Red Sox Cheating Investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    As an aside, can you just come clean and remain clean about your rooting interests? There are many well respected Red Sox fans that have been here longer than I have that root for the forum's rival. There were even pure trolls that at least were honest that (in my opinion anyway) added something to the forum (TheoSchmeo comes to mind, although he eventually went overboard and got RO'd). I can appreciate an honest troll, once they come out in the open.
    I totally agree.
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  9. #109

    Re: Red Sox Cheating Investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    As an aside, can you just come clean and remain clean about your rooting interests? There are many well respected Red Sox fans that have been here longer than I have that root for the forum's rival. There were even pure trolls that at least were honest that (in my opinion anyway) added something to the forum (TheoSchmeo comes to mind, although he eventually went overboard and got RO'd). I can appreciate an honest troll, once they come out in the open.
    Did somebody call for me?

  10. #110
    New Murderer's Row False1's Avatar
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    Re: Red Sox Cheating Investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    As an aside, can you just come clean and remain clean about your rooting interests? There are many well respected Red Sox fans that have been here longer than I have that root for the forum's rival. There were even pure trolls that at least were honest that (in my opinion anyway) added something to the forum (TheoSchmeo comes to mind, although he eventually went overboard and got RO'd). I can appreciate an honest troll, once they come out in the open.
    Quote Originally Posted by Casey at the Bat View Post
    Did somebody call for me?
    Indeed, but with the first clause in that paragraph (bolded above) not the second.

  11. #111

    Re: Red Sox Cheating Investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by Casey at the Bat View Post
    Did somebody call for me?
    You're a slacker. I've got chunks of your trolling in my stool.

    Of course, that might be a dietary imbalance since we're all in lock down.

    At any rate, when these things happen I try to be objective. Actually started a thread at SoSH on this that lined out penalties that fit the crime. Looking at this, if Manfred did really cut corners on the investigation, I'd have to look at where he (or MLB) would benefit from giving the Sox a pass.

    There's really no motivation to give Cora a break. In fact, I would think he should have been gunning for Cora as he was deep in the Houston scandal. That he was exonerated means he was pristine in this. Bear in mind, that he was the manager in 2018 with the Sox. Not the Bench Coach. Perhaps he saw the manner in which Hinch conducted himself and staying "above the fray" in Houston as the appropriate response. Remember, Hinch's only real crime in Houston was that he didn't stop the cheating (which carried implications that he condoned it), but from what I've read, Hinch didn't involve himself either. It's also quite possible that JWHIII and Co. knew what was going on in Houston and made it clear that it wasn't welcome in Boston. Impossible to know why Cora didn't bring his Houston system over to Boston, it's just that its clear that he didn't.

    Really no need to give Dombrowski a pass either. But, that we hasn't punished makes it obvious that this wasn't anything that bubbled up to his level.

    There's no real motivation to throw the Red Sox organization a bone on this either. They were the reason the Apple Watch memo came out. If it was something systemic for the Sox, Manfred would have had immense pressure from the other owners to come down doubly hard on Boston especially given the outrage over Houston. So far, I'm not reading where anyone in MLB is saying that the Sox got off easy. That's quite telling to me in the context of Houston and Barrel-Gate.

    Of course, I may be yelling into an empty hole here since this is a Yankee site. Just my thoughts.
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  12. #112

    Re: Red Sox Cheating Investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Indeed, but with the first clause in that paragraph (bolded above) not the second.
    Damn, you sent out the Bat Signal. lol.

  13. #113
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    Re: Red Sox Cheating Investigation

    The Red Sox are now 2 time convicted sign stealers. A second offense was supposed to bring massive penalties. However, Uncle Manfred went easy on the cheaters.

    Look for more sign stealing cheating by the Fenway Bunch if and when baseball resumes.
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  14. #114

    Re: Red Sox Cheating Investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by Archer1979 View Post
    You're a slacker. I've got chunks of your trolling in my stool.

    Of course, that might be a dietary imbalance since we're all in lock down.

    At any rate, when these things happen I try to be objective. Actually started a thread at SoSH on this that lined out penalties that fit the crime. Looking at this, if Manfred did really cut corners on the investigation, I'd have to look at where he (or MLB) would benefit from giving the Sox a pass.

    There's really no motivation to give Cora a break. In fact, I would think he should have been gunning for Cora as he was deep in the Houston scandal. That he was exonerated means he was pristine in this. Bear in mind, that he was the manager in 2018 with the Sox. Not the Bench Coach. Perhaps he saw the manner in which Hinch conducted himself and staying "above the fray" in Houston as the appropriate response. Remember, Hinch's only real crime in Houston was that he didn't stop the cheating (which carried implications that he condoned it), but from what I've read, Hinch didn't involve himself either. It's also quite possible that JWHIII and Co. knew what was going on in Houston and made it clear that it wasn't welcome in Boston. Impossible to know why Cora didn't bring his Houston system over to Boston, it's just that its clear that he didn't.

    Really no need to give Dombrowski a pass either. But, that we hasn't punished makes it obvious that this wasn't anything that bubbled up to his level.

    There's no real motivation to throw the Red Sox organization a bone on this either. They were the reason the Apple Watch memo came out. If it was something systemic for the Sox, Manfred would have had immense pressure from the other owners to come down doubly hard on Boston especially given the outrage over Houston. So far, I'm not reading where anyone in MLB is saying that the Sox got off easy. That's quite telling to me in the context of Houston and Barrel-Gate.

    Of course, I may be yelling into an empty hole here since this is a Yankee site. Just my thoughts.
    I'm of the mind that I honestly couldn't care less (which is how I feel about a lot of sports these days). MLB did what they did. The Sox and Astros did what they did. MLB punished them as they see fit. There is probably a whole lot that we are not aware of that went into those decisions, and the reality is that it doesn't change my life one bit. I read/follow sports and their scandals because I find it amusing, but it doesn't really evoke much emotion for me outside of the excitement of what is going on in a live game. I blame "A Bronx Tale" for that.

  15. #115

    Re: Red Sox Cheating Investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by Casey at the Bat View Post
    I'm of the mind that I honestly couldn't care less (which is how I feel about a lot of sports these days). MLB did what they did. The Sox and Astros did what they did. MLB punished them as they see fit. There is probably a whole lot that we are not aware of that went into those decisions, and the reality is that it doesn't change my life one bit. I read/follow sports and their scandals because I find it amusing, but it doesn't really evoke much emotion for me outside of the excitement of what is going on in a live game. I blame "A Bronx Tale" for that.

    The worse thing that may come out of this thing for sports is the general apathy that folks may have going further. The addiction has been resolved since everyone went cold turkey.

    But I'm not sure if my general blah feelings over sports has to do with the current situation or that the recent downturn of the Sox and Patriots has been overtaken by the Celtics and the Bruins (only to have their two seasons ground to a halt).
    Ask me about my groin pull.

  16. #116

    Re: Red Sox Cheating Investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    The Red Sox are now 2 time convicted sign stealers. A second offense was supposed to bring massive penalties. However, Uncle Manfred went easy on the cheaters.

    Look for more sign stealing cheating by the Fenway Bunch if and when baseball resumes.
    Well they did lose 20% of their draft picks since it will probably only be 5 rounds this year.
    Ask me about my groin pull.

  17. #117
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    Re: Red Sox Cheating Investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by Archer1979 View Post
    The worse thing that may come out of this thing for sports is the general apathy that folks may have going further. The addiction has been resolved since everyone went cold turkey.

    But I'm not sure if my general blah feelings over sports has to do with the current situation or that the recent downturn of the Sox and Patriots has been overtaken by the Celtics and the Bruins (only to have their two seasons ground to a halt).
    Most fans these days are feeling the blahs given the current stoppage of play. You mentioned the current state of Boston sport teams. No Boston fan should feel cheated. In the last 19 years the 4 major teams you noted have captured 12 World Championships. That's unmatched and likely never duplicated.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by BUZZARDS BAY View Post
    Most fans these days are feeling the blahs given the current stoppage of play. You mentioned the current state of Boston sport teams. No Boston fan should feel cheated. In the last 19 years the 4 major teams you noted have captured 12 World Championships. That's unmatched and likely never duplicated.
    lol, New York baseball teams alone won 12 from ‘47-‘62

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    Re: Red Sox Cheating Investigation

    NY Yankees, Giants (baseball), Giants (football), Rangers won 17 championships from 1921-40. (Goal post shift in 3, 2, 1 ...)
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  20. #120
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    Re: Red Sox Cheating Investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by philleotardo View Post
    lol, New York baseball teams alone won 12 from ‘47-‘62
    When you look at the number of professional teams that were competing against each other back then and compare that to the massive expansion that exists today its apples to oranges. Which is why it will never be duplicated in my opinion.

  21. #121
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    Re: Red Sox Cheating Investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by HelloNewman View Post
    NY Yankees, Giants (baseball), Giants (football), Rangers won 17 championships from 1921-40. (Goal post shift in 3, 2, 1 ...)
    Too small of a competitive pool to be relevant. In hockey alone I think there was what maybe 6 teams in the league. How many today?

  22. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by BUZZARDS BAY View Post
    Too small of a competitive pool to be relevant. In hockey alone I think there was what maybe 6 teams in the league. How many today?
    You were wrong. Move on

  23. #123
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    Re: Red Sox Cheating Investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by philleotardo View Post
    You were wrong. Move on
    What are you talking about. There were approximately a total of 30 to 60 professional teams in the 4 major sports back then.
    Now the total number of teams exceed 120.
    Fewer teams to beat increases odds of winning. Like I said apples and oranges. Winning a championship in any of the 4 major sports is way more difficult now compared to the years you wanted to make a case for.

  24. #124

    Re: Red Sox Cheating Investigation

    You said it’s unmatched. It’s not. You’re wrong. Stop trolling.

    If we’re going to do “but, but, but....”, none of those teams I mentioned were punished for cheating. The Patriots and Red Sox re-invented cheating.

  25. #125

    Re: Red Sox Cheating Investigation

    Wow, come to think of it, none of the Boston teams during that time probably won an untainted title. Ortiz and Manny juiced out of their minds, sign stealing, Spygate, Deflategate, any team with Milan Lucic or Brad Marchand is, at best, dirty as hell.

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