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  1. #26
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    Re: 2020 Gerrit Cole Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    I know Schilling started 1, 4 and 7 in 2001 (grrrr). Was he the last one to do it? Trying to remember if Bumgarner did it.
    He'd already be in the HoF if he weren't clamoring to be in the latest iteration of the 3rd Reich.
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  2. #27
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    Re: 2020 Gerrit Cole Performance Thread

    I wonder if Cole has been asked any questions regarding the Astros scandal? Did he have knowledge of it when he was there? Just wondering?

  3. #28
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    Re: 2020 Gerrit Cole Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty one View Post
    I wonder if Cole has been asked any questions regarding the Astros scandal? Did he have knowledge of it when he was there? Just wondering?
    He was asked about this. He grabbed his crotch, tapped his forearm, slid his hand down his right pant leg and touched his left nostril. Which, as the whole world now knows, means no
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  4. #29

    Re: 2020 Gerrit Cole Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty one View Post
    I wonder if Cole has been asked any questions regarding the Astros scandal? Did he have knowledge of it when he was there? Just wondering?
    https://www.golfdigest.com/story/tre...eating-scandal

    Its amazing out of all the news, the Astros pitchers haven't been talked about. To me, the success of their pitching staff is more unbelievable than their offense. To have as many good pitchers/seasons as they have had over the past few years, when the balls are flying out of the park at an insane rate, raises so many red flags.

    As a yankees fan, you hope what trevor said almost 2 years ago was wrong, but no matter how out spoken you make think he is, we should definitely listen.

    Let's just assume for arguments sake, the astros pitchers were cheating and come back to earth in 2020. Do the yankees have any recourse on Cole's contract?

  5. #30
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    Re: 2020 Gerrit Cole Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tifoso View Post
    He was asked about this. He grabbed his crotch, tapped his forearm, slid his hand down his right pant leg and touched his left nostril. Which, as the whole world now knows, means no
    You made me laugh. Thank you!
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  6. #31
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    Re: 2020 Gerrit Cole Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    You made me laugh. Thank you!
    My pleasure!
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  7. #32
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    Re: 2020 Gerrit Cole Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yanks1026 View Post
    https://www.golfdigest.com/story/tre...eating-scandal

    Its amazing out of all the news, the Astros pitchers haven't been talked about. To me, the success of their pitching staff is more unbelievable than their offense. To have as many good pitchers/seasons as they have had over the past few years, when the balls are flying out of the park at an insane rate, raises so many red flags.

    As a yankees fan, you hope what trevor said almost 2 years ago was wrong, but no matter how out spoken you make think he is, we should definitely listen.

    Let's just assume for arguments sake, the astros pitchers were cheating and come back to earth in 2020. Do the yankees have any recourse on Cole's contract?
    I can't imagine the Yankees didn't do a lot of statistical analysis- like home/away splits or something. While his spin rate skyrocketed in Houston, Verlander and Morton remained relatively constant.

    I mean, what can a pitcher do other than doctor the ball or use something for grip? Batters can use corked bats, steroids, steal signals, catch tipping pitches, use bionic contacts etc.
    A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!

  8. #33

    Re: 2020 Gerrit Cole Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinStripes View Post
    I can't imagine the Yankees didn't do a lot of statistical analysis- like home/away splits or something. While his spin rate skyrocketed in Houston, Verlander and Morton remained relatively constant.

    I mean, what can a pitcher do other than doctor the ball or use something for grip? Batters can use corked bats, steroids, steal signals, catch tipping pitches, use bionic contacts etc.
    Where there is smoke their is usually fire. Maybe the Astros pitching coach was that Good? But, I would take success from any Astro player with a huge grain of salt.

  9. #34
    Slow in, Fast out ThePinStripes's Avatar
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    Re: 2020 Gerrit Cole Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yanks1026 View Post
    Where there is smoke their is usually fire. Maybe the Astros pitching coach was that Good? But, I would take success from any Astro player with a huge grain of salt.
    I get it, but what puts me at a little bit of ease is that Verlander's uptick was before he got traded and Cole always had a high ceiling. Morton is still rocking, maybe more so, in Tampa.
    A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!

  10. #35

    Re: 2020 Gerrit Cole Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinStripes View Post
    I get it, but what puts me at a little bit of ease is that Verlander's uptick was before he got traded and Cole always had a high ceiling. Morton is still rocking, maybe more so, in Tampa.
    I'll have to look at Verlanders game by game when he was traded, but overall his numbers were dramatically better in September (of course smaller sample size), than they were when he was with the tigers. His era went from almost 4 to 1. Hits per inning went from .89 to like .5. And like I have said with morton before, if he learned to "cheat" in houston maybe he brought it over to Tampa. Again I have no proof, but it will be very interesting to see how Verlander, morton, and cole do in 2020.

    The main question remains though, if it ever comes out that the Astros pitchers were cheating, do the yankees have any recourse on.coles contract?

  11. #36
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    Re: 2020 Gerrit Cole Performance Thread

    The only way the Astros pitchers can be actively cheating during one of their starts is by using a substance to increase their spin rates. Even Trevor Bauer specifically points to that.

    Trevor Bauer @BauerOutage
    Pine tar, firm grip, Coca Cola boiled/melted together in a metal coke can. And maybe some rosin. Just a guess though 😉


    If this was in fact the case, hopefully it doesn't have a negative rebound effect if Cole is forced to move away from it.

    My hope, and it seems to be born out through much of the available data on Gerrit's ascension upon getting to Houston, is that a huge portion of his success was having a cutting edge organization rework what he threw and when he threw it via deep-dive analytics on what was effective.
    Jaret Wright's 2005 Cy Young Season: 20-3, 3.04 ERA

  12. #37
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    Re: 2020 Gerrit Cole Performance Thread

    If that's the case then the Yankees need to allow him to use it.

    As pine tar seems to be an acceptable way to cheat across baseball.
    Calmer than you are

    7/30/2017: The day the Minnesota Twins bought a prospect from the New York Yankees.

  13. #38
    Slow in, Fast out ThePinStripes's Avatar
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    Re: 2020 Gerrit Cole Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    If that's the case then the Yankees need to allow him to use it.

    As pine tar seems to be an acceptable way to cheat across baseball.
    Or at least not ask questions.
    A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!

  14. #39

    Re: 2020 Gerrit Cole Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    If that's the case then the Yankees need to allow him to use it.

    As pine tar seems to be an acceptable way to cheat across baseball.
    If it's just pine tar, then why isn't everyone else doing it? To have like three top pitchers in the majors over the past few seasons on the same team . They must have some really really good coaches and scouting dept.

  15. #40
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    Re: 2020 Gerrit Cole Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yanks1026 View Post
    If it's just pine tar, then why isn't everyone else doing it? To have like three top pitchers in the majors over the past few seasons on the same team . They must have some really really good coaches and scouting dept.
    They are - that's what CP was inferring by it being acceptable. You can find a substance, be it rosin, pine tar, or something else, on the majority of pitchers in the Majors. The prevailing opinion is that while it give them an advantage, it also makes the game safer because it heightens control at the same time.

    The "cheating" suspicion of Astros starters was that they were using a substance above and beyond simple pine tar/rosin, and it gave them a little extra grip to further their spin rates to elite levels.
    Jaret Wright's 2005 Cy Young Season: 20-3, 3.04 ERA

  16. #41
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    Re: 2020 Gerrit Cole Performance Thread

    The only other cheating scheme I can concoct in my head for pitchers would be someone offsite using a pitch picking algorithm to decide what pitch to call in real time with the progression of each specific player AB, and relaying those pitches in some way electronically to the bench, who would then relay it to the catcher.

    That would be an insane advantage, actually.
    Jaret Wright's 2005 Cy Young Season: 20-3, 3.04 ERA

  17. #42

    Re: 2020 Gerrit Cole Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Snatch Catch View Post
    They are - that's what CP was inferring by it being acceptable. You can find a substance, be it rosin, pine tar, or something else, on the majority of pitchers in the Majors. The prevailing opinion is that while it give them an advantage, it also makes the game safer because it heightens control at the same time.

    The "cheating" suspicion of Astros starters was that they were using a substance above and beyond simple pine tar/rosin, and it gave them a little extra grip to further their spin rates to elite levels.
    Sorry I should of said why isn't everyone doing the something extra then? Is the mlb even looking at the Astros pitchers?

  18. #43
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    Re: 2020 Gerrit Cole Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Snatch Catch View Post
    The only other cheating scheme I can concoct in my head for pitchers would be someone offsite using a pitch picking algorithm to decide what pitch to call in real time with the progression of each specific player AB, and relaying those pitches in some way electronically to the bench, who would then relay it to the catcher.

    That would be an insane advantage, actually.
    You mean...

    Feeding game situations into a computer that takes into account all the hitter's heat maps, and then runs a simulation on each of the pitches (and locations) in the given pitcher's arsenal in order to determine the most favorable outcome?

    Yeah, I could see that.
    "Be a voice, not an echo." - Albert Einstein

  19. #44

    Re: 2020 Gerrit Cole Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Snatch Catch View Post
    The only other cheating scheme I can concoct in my head for pitchers would be someone offsite using a pitch picking algorithm to decide what pitch to call in real time with the progression of each specific player AB, and relaying those pitches in some way electronically to the bench, who would then relay it to the catcher.

    That would be an insane advantage, actually.
    Would that be illegal? I would think that's already allowed, and right in the dugout, without needing any kind of relay to the bench? Teams can use tablets in the dugout, can't they? Implementing an algorithm like you describe seems pretty simple, though obviously making it an effective selector of the best pitch might be more difficult.

  20. #45
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    Re: 2020 Gerrit Cole Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Mxylsplk View Post
    Would that be illegal? I would think that's already allowed, and right in the dugout, without needing any kind of relay to the bench? Teams can use tablets in the dugout, can't they? Implementing an algorithm like you describe seems pretty simple, though obviously making it an effective selector of the best pitch might be more difficult.
    I was under the impression that the tablets were supposed to be used to access data about spray charts, what pitchers throw, etc. Basically everything that used to be in the binders.

    If it's not illegal (which I'm assuming it is), I agree it would be very simple to implement. I disagree though that it would very difficult to teach it what pitch would be best in each moment of each at bat. You would literally be able to feed it hundreds of thousands - if not millions - of historical data points about both the pitcher and hitter at an almost unimaginably granular level, so it could very easily parse the minutia and churn out the highest probability for success in real time, in my opinion.
    Jaret Wright's 2005 Cy Young Season: 20-3, 3.04 ERA

  21. #46
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    Re: 2020 Gerrit Cole Performance Thread



    Nicely said.

  22. #47
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    Re: 2020 Gerrit Cole Performance Thread

    Jaret Wright's 2005 Cy Young Season: 20-3, 3.04 ERA

  23. #48
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    Re: 2020 Gerrit Cole Performance Thread

    Yankees front office, managers, and staff:

    Calmer than you are

    7/30/2017: The day the Minnesota Twins bought a prospect from the New York Yankees.

  24. #49

    Re: 2020 Gerrit Cole Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    Yankees front office, managers, and staff:

    Very funny and all part of your schtick, but the truth is they brought this guy here for a reason and they have also revamped the coaching staff in ways that would seem to indicate they're not the complete morons you're so committed to believing they are.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  25. #50
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    Re: 2020 Gerrit Cole Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    Very funny and all part of your schtick, but the truth is they brought this guy here for a reason and they have also revamped the coaching staff in ways that would seem to indicate they're not the complete morons you're so committed to believing they are.
    Yeah, it only took them how many years to figure out their coaching/development/analytics was pitching poison? That changes were needed to leadership roles. Maybe a Nobel Prize nomination is warranted?
    Calmer than you are

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