When do these guys get their Monument Park glory?

[Steve J. Rogers]

I’m sure the Yanks are taking a break after inducting the Core 4 a few years back, but I’m still amazed at a bunch of legends still on the outside looking in:

Hall of Famers: Just about all of the ones left that don’t fall into the category of “well he’s in for another franchise” like Dave Winfield and Rickey Henderson, are from the 1920s teams, so are they waiting on the Golden Anniversary for Waite Hoyt, Earle Combs and Herb Pennock to get Monument Park plaques added to their Cooperstown glory?

Paul O’Neill/Bernie Williams level of great stars and iconic Yankees, but not quite HOFers: Tommy Henrich, Hank Bauer, Roy White, Lou Piniella come to mind.

I’d ramble on about pitchers, but how about pre-save rule (1969) relief aces Johnny Murphy, Joe Page and Luis Arroyo? As well as Sparky Lyle and Dave Righetti from the early days of the closer being a thing?

Yeah I know at some point the plaques will start to shrink to make room, but still, there are a backlog of deserving names to get added to the Monument Park Roll Call.

[ymike673]

Sparky Lyle should have gotten a plaque years ago.

[Bub]

Sparky Lyle should have gotten a plaque years ago.

Lyle threw 137 innings in 1977. Can you imagine a pure reliever/closer throwing that many today?

[ymike673]

Lyle threw 137 innings in 1977. Can you imagine a pure reliever/closer throwing that many today?

And won the Cy Young Award. Was the main reason Yankees won game 4 against the Royals. Can you imagine any Yankees reliever, even Mo doing what Lyle did to win the last two games against the Royals and then game 1 against the Dodgers that season.

[Sixty one]

Sparky Lyle should have gotten a plaque years ago.

Instead of an individual plaque ,why not just one long list of outstanding Yankees on one large plaque in monument park that can be added to as time goes on? Just a thought.

[Bauer]

Instead of an individual plaque ,why not just one long list of outstanding Yankees on one large plaque in monument park that can be added to as time goes on? Just a thought.

My problem with individual plaques for less-than-HoF players (e.g., Paul O'N, Bernie, et al.) is that there are too many potential candidates of merit. And these recent plaque-receivers represent the spirit of "recentism." E.g., any student of Yankee history knows how important were players like Bauer, Woodling, Turley, Henrich, and Keller (to mention just a few). But they've not received any plaques because there's no $$ payoff on Plaque Day. Why? They played too far back to bring in a big crowd. That's a vulgar reason. Henrich and Keller were every bit as important during the McCarthy dynastic years as O'Neill and Bernie were to the Torre years.

[Eldee5]

When does Yogi get his monument?

I remember reading that GMS had a conversation with Yogi where George wanted Yogi's monument to be placed in MP while Yogi was still living. Yogi turned down the offer stating that it should be the same for him as it was for all the other monument recipients.

Yogi's been gone for 4 1/2 years already. So, when?

[Bauer]

When does Yogi get his monument?

I remember reading that GMS had a conversation with Yogi where George wanted Yogi's monument to be placed in MP while Yogi was still living. Yogi turned down the offer stating that it should be the same for him as it was for all the other monument recipients.

Yogi's been gone for 4 1/2 years already. So, when?

Bold-face added, above.


Well, obviously what's changed is that principle of being the same. E.g., retiring of numbers seems to have changed from a time when HoF status was determinant. Now, the principle for that honor seems to depend on whether or not someone is in active living memory of contemporary fans--and therefore able to draw a crowd to a ceremony. I've whined about this apropos the undervaluing of such great, if not HoF calibre, Yankees as Henrich and Keller.

[Steve J. Rogers]

Bold-face added, above.


Well, obviously what's changed is that principle of being the same. E.g., retiring of numbers seems to have changed from a time when HoF status was determinant. Now, the principle for that honor seems to depend on whether or not someone is in active living memory of contemporary fans--and therefore able to draw a crowd to a ceremony. I've whined about this apropos the undervaluing of such great, if not HoF calibre, Yankees as Henrich and Keller.

Good point. I know they tried with Red Ruffing back in 2004, maybe it was the backlash/confounding for going that far into the past, and lack of interest in the ceremony that dropped the sort of honoring the backlog that my original post suggests doing.

Doesn’t answer why Yogi doesn’t rate getting a Monument out there! Unless they’re worried about walking around space out there.

[HelloNewman]

Good point. I know they tried with Red Ruffing back in 2004, maybe it was the backlash/confounding for going that far into the past, and lack of interest in the ceremony that dropped the sort of honoring the backlog that my original post suggests doing.

My memory is a little foggy on this and a few Google searches haven't turned up much, but I seem to remember that the Ruffing family put on a public full-court press to get him in there, not only writing numerous letters to the Yankees and The Boss directly but also going to a few media outlets with their case.

I don't think the induction was heavily promoted or grandly staged, it was just sort of a "let's do this nice thing and get them off our backs" ceremony done quickly before a game.

[Bauer]

My memory is a little foggy on this and a few Google searches haven't turned up much, but I seem to remember that the Ruffing family put on a public full-court press to get him in there, not only writing numerous letters to the Yankees and The Boss directly but also going to a few media outlets with their case.

I don't think the induction was heavily promoted or grandly staged, it was just sort of a "let's do this nice thing and get them off our backs" ceremony done quickly before a game.

Your final paragraph has the ring of truth about it, even if it may have come to you, as you say, somewhat foggily. When I was a kid my father--no fan of the Yankees--often talked about Ruffing to me. But my father was in his 20s when Ruffing played and my father used to drive up to Philadelphia to see Ruth and Cobb et al. Today, it's highly unlikely that many fans will know much about Ruffing's exploits unless they're Yankee-ologists or something.

[JL25and3]

Your final paragraph has the ring of truth about it, even if it may have come to you, as you say, somewhat foggily. When I was a kid my father--no fan of the Yankees--often talked about Ruffing to me. But my father was in his 20s when Ruffing played and my father used to drive up to Philadelphia to see Ruth and Cobb et al. Today, it's highly unlikely that many fans will know much about Ruffing's exploits unless they're Yankee-ologists or something.

My dad - who turned 10 the year the Yankees got Ruffing - always used to talk about his hitting. The Yankees used to use Ruffing as a pinch-hitter.

[Steve J. Rogers]

Your final paragraph has the ring of truth about it, even if it may have come to you, as you say, somewhat foggily. When I was a kid my father--no fan of the Yankees--often talked about Ruffing to me. But my father was in his 20s when Ruffing played and my father used to drive up to Philadelphia to see Ruth and Cobb et al. Today, it's highly unlikely that many fans will know much about Ruffing's exploits unless they're Yankee-ologists or something.

FWIW, the only MLB team honor for Waite Hoyt is a Cincinnati Red Retired “Mic” alongside ones for fellow long time Red broadcasters Marty Brenneman and Joe Nuxhall.

Herb Pennock’s time with the Red Sox (as well as Ruffing oddly enough), got him grandfathered into the Red Sox’ Hall through the “Member of the baseball Hall” clause. Also I can’t seem to discern if there is a logo on his Cooperstown plaque.

Joe Gordon, who does have the Yankee NY on his plaque was inducted into the Cleveland Indians Hall in 2008.

Also Tony Lazzeri, along with fellow ‘27er Earle Combs has an NY on the plaque in Cooperstown, but isn’t in Monument Park.

Those with Yankees listed as one, or the “main team” associated with the HOFer, according to the Hall’s website that aren’t in Monument Park:

Willie Keeler
Jack Chesbro
Pennock
Hoyt
Combs
George Weiss
Dave Winfield
Gordon
Lee McPhail
Larry McPhail

[Sixty one]

My problem with individual plaques for less-than-HoF players (e.g., Paul O'N, Bernie, et al.) is that there are too many potential candidates of merit. And these recent plaque-receivers represent the spirit of "recentism." E.g., any student of Yankee history knows how important were players like Bauer, Woodling, Turley, Henrich, and Keller (to mention just a few). But they've not received any plaques because there's no $$ payoff on Plaque Day. Why? They played too far back to bring in a big crowd. That's a vulgar reason. Henrich and Keller were every bit as important during the McCarthy dynastic years as O'Neill and Bernie were to the Torre years.

You are absolutely right! Money dictates everything. There just aren’t enough fans around to remember great platoon players like Woodling and Bauer. Henrich was known as “old reliable” because he always got big hits in the clutch.