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  1. #1

    Astros cheating investigation

    The details of this story are insane.

    https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...e-signs-camera

    https://twitter.com/Jomboy_/status/1...965437952?s=20

    What should the penalty be for these actions if they are substantiated? This is analogous to if an MLB team had an organized PED program. In my opinion, the coaches involved should be banned for life and players should receive suspensions equivalent to a single PED failure (and yes, I know this means possibly suspending their entire 2017 roster of hitters). The integrity of the game is at stake.

  2. #2
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    Re: Astros cheating investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by billyhoyle View Post
    The details of this story are insane.

    https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...e-signs-camera

    https://twitter.com/Jomboy_/status/1...965437952?s=20

    What should the penalty be for these actions if they are substantiated? This is analogous to if an MLB team had an organized PED program. In my opinion, the coaches involved should be banned for life and players should receive suspensions equivalent to a single PED failure (and yes, I know this means possibly suspending their entire 2017 roster of hitters). The integrity of the game is at stake.
    Thing is, there are terabytes of HD video/audio to pore through. The sounds can be made to match up to create a hell of a trail of circumstantial evidence, plus all the authoritative sources venturing their opinions on the matter.

    Ask Shoeless Joe what their penalty should be.
    "Be a voice, not an echo." - Albert Einstein

  3. #3
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    Re: Astros cheating investigation

    Hopefully they lose draft capital and associated draft and IFA dollars.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  4. #4

    Re: Astros cheating investigation

    It's a shame that we were robbed of what would have been a Yankees/Red Sox ALCS and Yankees Dodgers WS. Instead we got a mockery of a postseason. It also makes me wonder whether the accusations of ball doctoring are also true-possibly a red flag that makes me think Stas is a better bet than Cole.

  5. #5

    Re: Astros cheating investigation

    Smoltz commented in the ALCS about how nuts Sanchez was going trying to keep track of all the signals and speculated it was getting to his hitting. My own two cents is that Gary Sanchez hits - or doesn't hit - the way he hits because he is Gary Sanchez. But I'm sure the layers of signs didn't help.

  6. #6
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    Re: Astros cheating investigation

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubeFmHEVzQ0

  7. #7

    Re: Astros cheating investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by billyhoyle View Post
    The details of this story are insane.

    https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...e-signs-camera

    https://twitter.com/Jomboy_/status/1...965437952?s=20

    What should the penalty be for these actions if they are substantiated? This is analogous to if an MLB team had an organized PED program. In my opinion, the coaches involved should be banned for life and players should receive suspensions equivalent to a single PED failure (and yes, I know this means possibly suspending their entire 2017 roster of hitters). The integrity of the game is at stake.
    It's so gross and the 'Stros should be fined/banned/made to pickup littler on the highway. Whatever is appropriate.

    What I wonder is: is it even effective? Are there stats to show that sign stealing actually helps? I read somewhere that the Astros' BB/K was better on the road. Maybe trying to mentally process the whack on the garbage can and then see the ball and swing doesn't make it easier to actually turn the swing into a hit versus a miss or an out.

    Or maybe it does?

    I guess any time you know (or thing you know) what's coming it's an advantage. But hitting is hard.

    In either case, whoever bats leadoff for Houston next year is gonna take the first pitch of spring training in the ribs, and probably a lot of their guys a lot more thereafter.

  8. #8

    Re: Astros cheating investigation

    What a shady organization. Their 2017 championship now has an asterisk next to it.

  9. #9

    Re: Astros cheating investigation

    Not to be forgotten is that after Game 1 of this year's ALCS, the Yankees angrily claimed the Astros were signaling pitches from their dugout by whistling.

    The Astros denied it, MLB quickly cleared them, and AJ Hinch was very holier-than-thou about the whole thing.

    Wow.

  10. #10
    First Name: Keninovich hardrain's Avatar
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    Re: Astros cheating investigation

    The way players come and go it's only a matter of time before someone like Fiers spills the beans. What a horrible blight on the game.
    Standings: Big Inning 32-16; Blue Cut 27-21; Shoo Fly 26-22; Husk 22-26; Frank Pierce 21-27; Iowa City 16-32.

  11. #11
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    Re: Astros cheating investigation

    Hinch, Luhnow, et al need to be thrown out of the sport.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hogwood View Post
    It's so gross and the 'Stros should be fined/banned/made to pickup littler on the highway. Whatever is appropriate.

    What I wonder is: is it even effective? Are there stats to show that sign stealing actually helps? I read somewhere that the Astros' BB/K was better on the road. Maybe trying to mentally process the whack on the garbage can and then see the ball and swing doesn't make it easier to actually turn the swing into a hit versus a miss or an out.

    Or maybe it does?

    I guess any time you know (or thing you know) what's coming it's an advantage. But hitting is hard.

    In either case, whoever bats leadoff for Houston next year is gonna take the first pitch of spring training in the ribs, and probably a lot of their guys a lot more thereafter.
    Some sweet, small sample-size, H/A splits from the Astros’ 2017 postseason.

    Correa:

    Home: .371 BA/.421 OBP/.743 SLG/1.164 OPS, 13 H, 3 HR & 10 RBI
    Away: .211 BA/.231 OBP/.395 SLG/.626 OPS, 8 H, 2 HR & 4 RBI.

    Gattis:

    Home: .300 BA/.464 OBP/.550 SLG/1.014 OPS, 6 H, 1 HR & 3 RBI
    Away: .200 BA/.333 OBP/.200 SLG/.533 OPS, 2 H, 0 HR & 0 RBI

    Altuve:

    Home: .472 BA/.513 OBP/1.028 SLG/1.541 OPS, 17 H, 6 HR & 12 RBI
    Away: .143 BA, .268 OBP, .229 SLG, .497 OPS, 5 H, 1 HR & 2 RBI

    McCann:

    Home: .300 BA/.382 OBP/.467 SLG/.849 OPS, 9 H, 1 HR & 7 RBI
    Away: .037 BA/.161 OBP/.037 SLG/.198 OPS, 1 H, 0 HR & 0 RBI

    Bregman:

    Home: .273 BA/.342 OBP/.515 SLG/.857 OPS, 9 H, 2 HR & 6 RBI
    Away: .154 BA/.175 OBP/.333 SLG/.508 OPS, 6 H, 2 HR & 4 RBI
    "Be a voice, not an echo." - Albert Einstein

  12. #12

    Re: Astros cheating investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by ojo View Post
    Some sweet, small sample-size, H/A splits from the Astros’ 2017 season.
    Postseason, that is. Those splits are incredible.

  13. #13
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    Re: Astros cheating investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by HfxBob View Post
    Postseason, that is. Those splits are incredible.
    Whoops. I wonder if she slipped decaf in there.
    "Be a voice, not an echo." - Albert Einstein

  14. #14

    Re: Astros cheating investigation

    This may sound strange, but I'm surprised that this isn't done all the time. Solution: ban electronics from dugout and vicinity (including cameras, monitors, cellphones, ipads, etc).
    Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. ~ Dale Carnegie

  15. #15

    Re: Astros cheating investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by hardrain View Post
    The way players come and go it's only a matter of time before someone like Fiers spills the beans. What a horrible blight on the game.
    I guess it wasn't a problem for him when he played for the Astros.

    Beltran was on the Astros. I'm sure he told the Yankees what was going on.
    Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. ~ Dale Carnegie

  16. #16
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    Re: Astros cheating investigation

    So not surprising. I think this was the worst kept secret in baseball but I'm glad players are coming forward to admit it. Also, remember who was the Astros bench coach in 2017. Funny how the Red Sox suddenly became an offensive juggernaut the following season when he took over as manager.
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  17. #17
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    Re: Astros cheating investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by fredgmuggs View Post
    This may sound strange, but I'm surprised that this isn't done all the time. Solution: ban electronics from dugout and vicinity (including cameras, monitors, cellphones, ipads, etc).
    You can bet the Astros are NOT the only one doing it, just like Barry Bonds was NOT the only steroid user. The Astros and Bonds were just really good at it apparently.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  18. #18
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    Re: Astros cheating investigation

    the penalty better hurt, BIGLY.

  19. #19
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    Re: Astros cheating investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by ojo View Post
    Hinch, Luhnow, et al need to be thrown out of the sport.



    Some sweet, small sample-size, H/A splits from the Astros’ 2017 postseason.

    Correa:

    Home: .371 BA/.421 OBP/.743 SLG/1.164 OPS, 13 H, 3 HR & 10 RBI
    Away: .211 BA/.231 OBP/.395 SLG/.626 OPS, 8 H, 2 HR & 4 RBI.

    Gattis:

    Home: .300 BA/.464 OBP/.550 SLG/1.014 OPS, 6 H, 1 HR & 3 RBI
    Away: .200 BA/.333 OBP/.200 SLG/.533 OPS, 2 H, 0 HR & 0 RBI

    Altuve:

    Home: .472 BA/.513 OBP/1.028 SLG/1.541 OPS, 17 H, 6 HR & 12 RBI
    Away: .143 BA, .268 OBP, .229 SLG, .497 OPS, 5 H, 1 HR & 2 RBI

    McCann:

    Home: .300 BA/.382 OBP/.467 SLG/.849 OPS, 9 H, 1 HR & 7 RBI
    Away: .037 BA/.161 OBP/.037 SLG/.198 OPS, 1 H, 0 HR & 0 RBI

    Bregman:

    Home: .273 BA/.342 OBP/.515 SLG/.857 OPS, 9 H, 2 HR & 6 RBI
    Away: .154 BA/.175 OBP/.333 SLG/.508 OPS, 6 H, 2 HR & 4 RBI
    These numbers are so upsetting.

    The only thing not making me angry is that we didn't score at all in Houston, so maybe we still would have lost.

  20. #20
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    Re: Astros cheating investigation


  21. #21
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    Re: Astros cheating investigation

    I started chuckling and nodding my head when I saw this.

    Jaret Wright's 2005 Cy Young Season: 20-3, 3.04 ERA

  22. #22
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    Re: Astros cheating investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by RyRy89 View Post
    LOL yeah that's good.
    Loved the comments form folks who thought it was real and didn't even notice the clip of Gardy is a day game at YS and the HR clip is HOU at night.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  23. #23

    Re: Astros cheating investigation

    if you aint cheating you aint trying. this is just a symptom of analytics in baseball taken to the logical extreme.

  24. #24
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    Re: Astros cheating investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by yanksftw View Post
    if you aint cheating you aint trying. this is just a symptom of analytics in baseball taken to the logical extreme.
    This really doesn’t have anything to do with analytics.
    If they ask who was our star, give them 25 names, and if you forget our names, just tell them we were Yankees.

  25. #25

    Re: Astros cheating investigation

    Quote Originally Posted by CalYankeeFan View Post
    This really doesn’t have anything to do with analytics.
    I beg to differ. Analytics is using technology (statistical software) to perceive patterns in data that the human eye/mind cannot see or recognize.

    What astros were doing is just technology assisted scouting. If Astros had some rain man like savant who was able to recognize all the signs and relay them to the batters, would you still have a problem with it? Why does the addition of technology make something "cheating" when people had no problem with human attempts at sign stealing?

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