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  1. #401
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    Re: Sign Gerrit Cole Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Most of the time, the price of things I shop for is determined by the seller. How much I'm willing to pay determines whether or not I buy the thing at all.
    And on a bigger scale, doesn't your decision to buy or not to buy have an effect on the price determined by the seller?

    i.e. let's say an item is overpriced by the seller and the product doesn't liquidate in the time frame allotted. Isn't it likely we see a price reduction?
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  2. #402
    New Murderer's Row False1's Avatar
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    Re: Sign Gerrit Cole Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    And on a bigger scale, doesn't your decision to buy or not to buy have an effect on the price determined by the seller?

    i.e. let's say an item is overpriced by the seller and the product doesn't liquidate in the time frame allotted. Isn't it likely we see a price reduction?
    Not if the item for sale is the hottest holiday toy on the market, and it's a one-of-a-kind version of it.

    Cole will not go unsold. Someone is going to pay. Might as well be the team that probably would benefit more than any other, and also has vast resources to pay for him.

  3. #403
    The Death Star is Sputtering Zimmer's Helmet's Avatar
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    Re: Sign Gerrit Cole Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Not if the item for sale is the hottest holiday toy on the market, and it's a one-of-a-kind version of it.

    Cole will not go unsold. Someone is going to pay. Might as well be the team that probably would benefit more than any other, and also has vast resources to pay for him.
    The bold part is exactly why the Yankees should bid more than any other team to sign him.

    A Cole, Severino, Paxton trio suddenly becomes one of the best in the game.
    Certainly transforms this team into a potential dynasty.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  4. #404
    New Murderer's Row False1's Avatar
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    Re: Sign Gerrit Cole Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post
    The bold part is exactly why the Yankees should bid more than any other team to sign him.

    A Cole, Severino, Paxton trio suddenly becomes one of the best in the game.
    Certainly transforms this team into a potential dynasty.
    Not to mention Playoff Tanaka.

  5. #405

    Re: Sign Gerrit Cole Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    I really don't mean to suggest that I don't recognize Cole's magnificent talent and results. I guess I'm all about setting limits and having boundaries.

    I just don't want to have to "meet demands" if I'm uncomfortable, and this would seem to set a precedent going forward.

    When it comes down to it, I just don't like bowing to the power that Scott Boras seems to have.
    There is nothing wrong with that. But it also means you are choosing to pass on Gerrit Cole.

  6. #406
    2009 WORLD CHAMPIONS aeromac76's Avatar
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    Re: Sign Gerrit Cole Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Not to mention Playoff Tanaka.



    Cole, a healthy Sevy, Pax and Masa... with our offense and bullpen... simply yummy..
    I used to think I was crazy... Now I am sure of it..

  7. #407
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    Re: Sign Gerrit Cole Thread

    https://www.si.com/mlb/2019/11/20/ge...lion-contracts

    Some comparisons to other $200M+ contracts for starting pitchers Price, Scherzer, Greinke, & Kershaw.

    My takeaway is that in one form or another, these guys have outperformed their contracts, with Price's arguably being the possible exception.

    I'm hopeful that the Yanks will see the value in Cole outweighs the long-term risk, something I'm slowly warming up to. But my draw-a-line-in-the-sand is a seven year deal. Will 7yrs/$245M/$35M AAV be enough? If another team offers 8 years, should the Yanks walk away? What if this drags out through January - will other attractive options still be available?
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  8. #408

    Re: Sign Gerrit Cole Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    https://www.si.com/mlb/2019/11/20/ge...lion-contracts

    Some comparisons to other $200M+ contracts for starting pitchers Price, Scherzer, Greinke, & Kershaw.

    My takeaway is that in one form or another, these guys have outperformed their contracts, with Price's arguably being the possible exception.

    I'm hopeful that the Yanks will see the value in Cole outweighs the long-term risk, something I'm slowly warming up to. But my draw-a-line-in-the-sand is a seven year deal. Will 7yrs/$245M/$35M AAV be enough? If another team offers 8 years, should the Yanks walk away? What if this drags out through January - will other attractive options still be available?
    My top offer would be 8 years 270 mill with an opt out somewhere in there. Of course I would offer strasburg 150 for 5 years , if cole doesn’t get back with his answer in time

  9. #409
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    Re: Sign Gerrit Cole Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
    My top offer would be 8 years 270 mill with an opt out somewhere in there. Of course I would offer strasburg 150 for 5 years , if cole doesn’t get back with his answer in time
    As good as Cole is, I must confess that I would not be inclined to go anywhere near that eight year contract. Simply too risky to make that kind of commitment to any pitcher. Risky enough for position players, but that length of contract even for Cole is going to have a negative impact on how this team is structured for years to come. That Stasburg contract sounds a bit better to me.
    Yankee fan living in Maine.

  10. #410

    Re: Sign Gerrit Cole Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by apalradio View Post
    As good as Cole is, I must confess that I would not be inclined to go anywhere near that eight year contract. Simply too risky to make that kind of commitment to any pitcher. Risky enough for position players, but that length of contract even for Cole is going to have a negative impact on how this team is structured for years to come. That Stasburg contract sounds a bit better to me.
    I heard the same argument about cc, 11 years ago and if not for him we would be looking at 20years with no ws

  11. #411
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    Re: Sign Gerrit Cole Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
    I heard the same argument about cc, 11 years ago and if not for him we would be looking at 20years with no ws
    Apples and oranges. That was eleven years ago, and as much as I appreciate CC as a warrior, the last several years of his contract were not a particularly good investment.
    Yankee fan living in Maine.

  12. #412
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    Re: Sign Gerrit Cole Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
    My top offer would be 8 years 270 mill with an opt out somewhere in there. Of course I would offer strasburg 150 for 5 years , if cole doesn’t get back with his answer in time
    I agree with everything you say except it'll probably be more in the ballpark of 8 yrs 280 mill to persuade Cole to put on the pinstripes.

  13. #413
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    Re: Sign Gerrit Cole Thread

    How about 5 years/200 Mill. ?

  14. #414

    Re: Sign Gerrit Cole Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by apalradio View Post
    Apples and oranges. That was eleven years ago, and as much as I appreciate CC as a warrior, the last several years of his contract were not a particularly good investment.
    Doesn’t matter, a lot of “bad” contracts were in a way justified by the 2009 WS. You pay big for guys that can get you over the top 1+ years. No one would trade 2009 for a team that was perhaps slightly more competitive in the couple of down years since. Although sadly the latter might be more profitable for owners, which is why none of them spend crazy chasing rings.

  15. #415

    Re: Sign Gerrit Cole Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by apalradio View Post
    Apples and oranges. That was eleven years ago, and as much as I appreciate CC as a warrior, the last several years of his contract were not a particularly good investment.
    It isn’t apples and oranges, cc’s deal was 7 years. The last 3 years that cc was there were one year deals .

  16. #416

    Re: Sign Gerrit Cole Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JerseyMike's View Post
    I agree with everything you say except it'll probably be more in the ballpark of 8 yrs 280 mill to persuade Cole to put on the pinstripes.
    I would do it as long as there is an opt out clause in there somewhere

  17. #417

    Re: Sign Gerrit Cole Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fvkw View Post
    How about 5 years/200 Mill. ?
    Cole is gonna want at least 7 years

  18. #418

    Re: Sign Gerrit Cole Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by primetime714 View Post
    Doesn’t matter, a lot of “bad” contracts were in a way justified by the 2009 WS. You pay big for guys that can get you over the top 1+ years. No one would trade 2009 for a team that was perhaps slightly more competitive in the couple of down years since. Although sadly the latter might be more profitable for owners, which is why none of them spend crazy chasing rings.
    Do you give out bad deals just so that you can win 1 championship every 10 years? Are you sure there isn't a better way to win an occasional championship?

  19. #419

    Re: Sign Gerrit Cole Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
    I would do it as long as there is an opt out clause in there somewhere
    That basically means you wouldn't do it. You're only offering the player the amount before the team option. Let's say you offer an 8 year $280 mil deal where the first 5 years are guaranteed and total $150 mil and then there's a team option. It is only a 5 year $150 mil deal to the player. Even the media will report this as a 5 year, $150 mil deal. They might then add a side note that a team option can take it through 8 years.
    Google search JA Happ's contract, for example. It is usually referred to as a 2 year, 34 mil deal with just a side note that it could potentially have a 3rd year.

  20. #420

    Re: Sign Gerrit Cole Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonn1997 View Post
    That basically means you wouldn't do it. You're only offering the player the amount before the team option. Let's say you offer an 8 year $280 mil deal where the first 5 years are guaranteed and total $150 mil and then there's a team option. It is only a 5 year $150 mil deal to the player. Even the media will report this as a 5 year, $150 mil deal. They might then add a side note that a team option can take it through 8 years.
    Who said that option is a team option? Cc signed with a player option in his contract , 11 years ago . A player option would give cole an option to opt out and go back home west after 4 or 5 years .

  21. #421
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    Re: Sign Gerrit Cole Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonn1997 View Post
    Do you give out bad deals just so that you can win 1 championship every 10 years? Are you sure there isn't a better way to win an occasional championship?
    True, and it's not just that. A bloated contract's overall effect on the team's payroll when their goal is to stay below a certain threshold can subsequently impact their ability to add other key players when needed. That can also be the difference between winning a championship or not.
    Yankee fan living in Maine.

  22. #422

    Re: Sign Gerrit Cole Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by apalradio View Post
    True, and it's not just that. A bloated contract's overall effect on the team's payroll when their goal is to stay below a certain threshold can subsequently impact their ability to add other key players when needed. That can also be the difference between winning a championship or not.
    You do realize if they went over te threshold it would Only be for one season right?

  23. #423
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apalradio View Post
    True, and it's not just that. A bloated contract's overall effect on the team's payroll when their goal is to stay below a certain threshold can subsequently impact their ability to add other key players when needed. That can also be the difference between winning a championship or not.
    Or the team can just not sign the one big piece they need. Then they won’t need to worry about the supplemental pieces later.

  24. #424

    Re: Sign Gerrit Cole Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Or the team can just not sign the one big piece they need. Then they won’t need to worry about the supplemental pieces later.
    Yeah then they could just refocus on another rebuild in about 3 to 4 years time. And rebuild every 4 or 5 years .

  25. #425

    Re: Sign Gerrit Cole Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
    Who said that option is a team option? Cc signed with a player option in his contract , 11 years ago . A player option would give cole an option to opt out and go back home west after 4 or 5 years .
    Oh, well why do you *want* to give Cole a team option? That just helps the player at a potential cost to the Yankees. No owner looks forward to giving a player option. Sure, it gives Cole the option to go out west. If he's coming off a strong season, though, it also gives him the option to demand much more money or we otherwise lose him for nothing.

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