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  1. #8826

    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    Yes, I would do that rather easily. The window is very much now. That said, I'm not certain a team wouldn't just take Happ by himself. They could manage his innings so he doesn't reach that vesting option if he's bad, and if he pitches well enough, they may want it to vest. Cashman made it sound like a lot of teams were interested but that could just be BS.

    That said, I'd very much prefer Arenado in the trade I proposed (http://www.nyyfansforum.com/showthre...=1#post8798565).
    I mean, Cashman won't ever be saying "no one's willing to take Happ straight up unless we give something very nice and I really want to trade him someone help plz"...also, I am quite confused on what you determine Happ's value as. In one thread you are claiming he has enough value that there should be a team willing to take him up as it is, where in another (I forgot where) I believe you were calling him absolute garbage of no value.

    As for the Arenado trade, I know your idea (Arenado + 50m for Happ (17m), Urshela (2.5m), Andujar, Clint, Deivi, Florial, Albert Abreu) is hypothetical but I don't think the Rockies will take on 7 roster players for 1 in Arenado while adding 50M. Not to mention considering the values as of right now, Deivi is like the only "top prospect" in that suggestion and even then, he is more like a top 50~100 region depending on what list you look at. Florial/Abreu lost a lot of luster, and for a NL team Andujar/Clint is probably the same.

  2. #8827
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread


  3. #8828
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by H.Kokubo View Post
    I mean, Cashman won't ever be saying "no one's willing to take Happ straight up unless we give something very nice and I really want to trade him someone help plz"...also, I am quite confused on what you determine Happ's value as. In one thread you are claiming he has enough value that there should be a team willing to take him up as it is, where in another (I forgot where) I believe you were calling him absolute garbage of no value.
    I really despise when people make this type of argument as if it's meaningful. Folks have different valuations of players all the time. I may think Happ is bad, but others might not. For example, I'm sure there are plenty of people on this forum who think Happ will be good. You sell Happ to that type of person.

    Quote Originally Posted by H.Kokubo View Post
    As for the Arenado trade, I know your idea (Arenado + 50m for Happ (17m), Urshela (2.5m), Andujar, Clint, Deivi, Florial, Albert Abreu) is hypothetical but I don't think the Rockies will take on 7 roster players for 1 in Arenado while adding 50M. Not to mention considering the values as of right now, Deivi is like the only "top prospect" in that suggestion and even then, he is more like a top 50~100 region depending on what list you look at. Florial/Abreu lost a lot of luster, and for a NL team Andujar/Clint is probably the same.
    1) Have you look at the Rockies roster? It's very bad, so they can use a lot of young talented players. 40 man roster spot or not.

    2) As I mentioned in the proposal, you can offload Happ elsewhere if necessary. Then you have 6 players left, and 5 of them have minor league options. I'm not locked into those prospects in the proposal. Swap out Clarke for Abreu if it makes it feel better to you. Jasson and Mike King are the only two prospects I want to hold onto.

    3) They aren't just adding 50m. Let's make that clear. They are paying 50m over 6 years and would ultimately be saving money in 2020. Hell, you could probably make it work with 40m.
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  4. #8829

    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Do you guys realistically think we get Arenado or Bryant? After netting the big fish in Cole this offseason? So Cashman is sleeping if he does get 2 guys making $35m a year?

    Arenado is one of the rare players I actually would be ok dealing Andujar for, but with Arenado comes a huge price tag. Maybe if we didnt have Stantons contract to deal with we would. And we still have Ellsbury for what $27m in 2020?
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  5. #8830

    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    If there was an upgrade to be made, Rizzo should be the target for 1B.

  6. #8831
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BabyBombers View Post
    Do you guys realistically think we get Arenado or Bryant? After netting the big fish in Cole this offseason? So Cashman is sleeping if he does get 2 guys making $35m a year?

    Arenado is one of the rare players I actually would be ok dealing Andujar for, but with Arenado comes a huge price tag. Maybe if we didnt have Stantons contract to deal with we would. And we still have Ellsbury for what $27m in 2020?
    The anti-Cashman segment of posters on this board are very vocal. To them, Cashman is always sleeping on the job, no matter what he does or doesn't do.

  7. #8832

    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    The anti-Cashman segment of posters on this board are very vocal. To them, Cashman is always sleeping on the job, no matter what he does or doesn't do.
    That comes with the job, I suppose.
    Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. ~ Dale Carnegie

  8. #8833
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fredgmuggs View Post
    That comes with the job, I suppose.
    Yup, being on the job for your 23rd season doesn't help either. TBH, I wish Hal would change GM's in order to spare us that same narrative. Of course, in time, they will turn on that new GM too.

  9. #8834

    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    The anti-Cashman segment of posters on this board are very vocal. To them, Cashman is always sleeping on the job, no matter what he does or doesn't do.
    Criticism always comes through louder than praise. I think there are only legit one possibly two people on the forum that want a new GM. And their opinions and ideas are at least thought provoking even if you don't agree with them.

  10. #8835
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    The anti-Cashman segment of posters on this board are very vocal. To them, Cashman is always sleeping on the job, no matter what he does or doesn't do.
    It would be wonderful if you actually spoke about the team, and not the feelings and thoughts of other posters.
    Calmer than you are

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  11. #8836
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    It would be wonderful if you actually spoke about the team, and not the feelings and thoughts of other posters.
    When it comes to talking about other posters, the pot calling the kettle black.

  12. #8837

    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    Yup, being on the job for your 23rd season doesn't help either. TBH, I wish Hal would change GM's in order to spare us that same narrative. Of course, in time, they will turn on that new GM too.
    I don't mind folks being critical. It's the nature of fandom. And I enjoy reading different points of view. I learn things that way.
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  13. #8838
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    When it comes to talking about other posters, the pot calling the kettle black.
    Sorry? Where I have talked about any other posters? I'm too focused on the discussion of the team and other people's points. You on the other hand won't stop talking about others. Just keep things to the Yankees. Follow CS. Very simple.
    Calmer than you are

    7/30/2017: The day the Minnesota Twins bought a prospect from the New York Yankees.

  14. #8839

    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    This board never ceases to amaze - $300+ million for Cole. They could go get Bryant or Arenado tomorrow, and within 24 hours Iíd be reading about how Cashman was asleep bc he didnít address BUC or a 2nd or 3rd lefty in the pen. If they wonít let Cashman give out another $35 million dollar contract then what is he supposed to do? The dollar amount does matter and years of trading off fools gold prospects might be paying off as well.

  15. #8840
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandlot View Post
    This board never ceases to amaze - $300+ million for Cole. They could go get Bryant or Arenado tomorrow, and within 24 hours I’d be reading about how Cashman was asleep bc he didn’t address BUC or a 2nd or 3rd lefty in the pen. If they won’t let Cashman give out another $35 million dollar contract then what is he supposed to do? The dollar amount does matter and years of trading off fools gold prospects might be paying off as well.
    Cashman's responsibility is exactly what you mentioned. Finishing off the roster. Upgrading positions. Backup catcher. Trades. Ect...Working with what is left in the budget, and making assets like a Bryant work by moving others (eg Happ).

    We got Cole because Hal offered the most money by far, and was actively involved in the negotiations. Can we give credit where credit is due?
    Calmer than you are

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  16. #8841
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    Cashman's responsibility is exactly what you mentioned. Finishing off the roster. Upgrading positions. Backup catcher. Trades. Ect...Working with what is left in the budget, and making assets like a Bryant work by moving others (eg Happ).

    We got Cole because Hal offered the most money by far, and was actively involved in the negotiations. Can we give credit where credit is due?
    If Cashman was going to do any of that he would have kept some of the pieces he let walk. He and ownership are of the belief that the teams of the last 4 years were already contenders. I doubt anymore action happens until the trade deadline.

    Besides some of our once touted minor leaguers can still be had for just money on the free agent market so who’s going to trade for our 1 hit wonders?

  17. #8842
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    The anti-Cashman segment of posters on this board are very vocal. To them, Cashman is always sleeping on the job, no matter what he does or doesn't do.
    I fail to see what this offers the board. It seems to be demeaning to folks who are critical of Cashman (of which I am one), but doesn't engage with any of the actual criticism outside of just being dismissive. Can we please frame our disagreements in ways that are constructive and move the conversation forward rather than veering off into potentially incendiary and unproductive personal criticisms of groups of community members?

  18. #8843

    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Since we brought up the fact that Hal pushed hard to get the Cole deal done allowing us to offer that last year, do we know who wanted the Ellsbury and Stanton deals done? Was that Cashman or did Hal have influence there as well?
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  19. #8844
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    Cashman's responsibility is exactly what you mentioned. Finishing off the roster. Upgrading positions. Backup catcher. Trades. Ect...Working with what is left in the budget, and making assets like a Bryant work by moving others (eg Happ).

    We got Cole because Hal offered the most money by far, and was actively involved in the negotiations. Can we give credit where credit is due?
    All of this. The Dodgers were already the heavy favorite to win the NL yet they went out and added Betts. Just because Hal authorized spending money on Cole to address the biggest weakness on the team doesn't mean that Cashman should be spared of all criticism for failing to improve other aspects of the team this offseason. He's literally done nothing else but re-sign Gardner.
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  20. #8845
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by matt2351 View Post
    I fail to see what this offers the board. It seems to be demeaning to folks who are critical of Cashman (of which I am one), but doesn't engage with any of the actual criticism outside of just being dismissive. Can we please frame our disagreements in ways that are constructive and move the conversation forward rather than veering off into potentially incendiary and unproductive personal criticisms of groups of community members?
    What word was demeaning or incendiary? "Vocal"?

    I do think that they've kind of been weirdly passive with everything outside of Cole. The roster is mostly very good, but it's not perfect. There likely are some opportunities being missed here on the margins (or on the bigger stuff, if they are just choosing not to budget Arenado/Bryant).

  21. #8846
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BabyBombers View Post
    Do you guys realistically think we get Arenado or Bryant? After netting the big fish in Cole this offseason? So Cashman is sleeping if he does get 2 guys making $35m a year?

    Arenado is one of the rare players I actually would be ok dealing Andujar for, but with Arenado comes a huge price tag. Maybe if we didnt have Stantons contract to deal with we would. And we still have Ellsbury for what $27m in 2020?
    MLB network ranked Arenado as no. 9 for 2020 and Bryant no. 34 so maybe Bryant is more realistic.

  22. #8847

    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMuntz View Post
    All of this. The Dodgers were already the heavy favorite to win the NL yet they went out and added Betts. Just because Hal authorized spending money on Cole to address the biggest weakness on the team doesn't mean that Cashman should be spared of all criticism for failing to improve other aspects of the team this offseason. He's literally done nothing else but re-sign Gardner.
    I CAN agree with that. I would have rathered Cam Maybin over Gardner even. That said, I cant blame him if we dont land Arenado or Bryant. WE certainly should have upgraded a few other things IMO though. I mean, Higgy is going to catch at least 60 games for us this year. Thats pretty scary. He isnt Romine. And if we could have resigned Didi I would have do so instead of keeping Happ even.
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  23. #8848
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMuntz View Post
    All of this. The Dodgers were already the heavy favorite to win the NL yet they went out and added Betts. Just because Hal authorized spending money on Cole to address the biggest weakness on the team doesn't mean that Cashman should be spared of all criticism for failing to improve other aspects of the team this offseason. He's literally done nothing else but re-sign Gardner.
    Exactly. The Dodgers won 106 games and just added a 7-10 win player. If the idea was to just sign Cole, and do nothing. They are really going about this all wrong.

    In fact, I figured because they spent so much money on addressing the rotation. They could then use other assets (non-money) to address other parts of improving the club. They've done really nothing.
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  24. #8849
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    The notion that it isn't logical or economically viable is patently false. For example, Kris Bryant is making 18.6m, Happ is making 17m.

    The Yankees could unload Happ and go after Bryant. The Yankees are making the explicit decision to hold onto Happ and not do anything. That is their choice, and it's a bad one.
    Yeah, I mean, just unload Happ. Super easy to just get rid an awful starting pitcher owed $17M with a $17M vesting options. Easy breezy. It's just a shame Cashman didn't think of that.

    Cashman definitely needs to do more on the trade front with the quality cost controlled pieces he has, but criticizing him for not getting Bryant or Arenado is laughable.
    A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!

  25. #8850

    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    Cross another MLB player off the list of Douches Who Never Played for the Red Sox.
    Who's #1 on that list ... Carlos Gomez?
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