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  1. #8001
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    Correct. This is the point being made. All indications are that Bryant will lose the case. Therefore, he'll have 2 years of control, same as Arenado, but be 40% cheaper.
    I still have a hard time thinking the Cubs will trade Bryant, unless they go into the tank. The Cubs were taken off WGN this upcoming season so Cubs fans will have to pay extra subscription costs to see any Cubs game not on Fox or ESPN. Trading Bryant isn't a good PR move if you're launching such a pay subscription service. However, Ricketts has made some dumb moves to alienate his fan base so perhaps he's dumb enough to make such a trade.

  2. #8002
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ojo View Post
    The danger in waiting until the TDL would be the rest of MLB getting a good look at what Jasson Dominguez does in Advanced Rookie Ball (assuming he starts in Pulaski?).
    Hell, they're going to ask for him anyway.

  3. #8003

    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixwell View Post
    What's the danger in that? That teams would want him? You can say no. If anything, maybe his rise makes someone else in the organization more expendable.
    He may become the new Torres as in any rumored trade the other team is always asking for him. Doesnít mean the Yankees would trade him, but will be really annoying for us to constantly hear his name in every single rumor.

  4. #8004

    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Snatch Catch View Post
    I've been thinking about this - the Yankees are almost assured to be in the running for the playoffs this year.

    So when is the best time to actually go all-in? Is it now or the deadline?

    It's not that either is a bad time if you get what you want/need, but I can see the argument for holding chips until you can get a more exact idea of what you need in order to make that final push.

    On the now side is you not knowing if your biggest chips will depreciate between now and then, and price being generally lower.

    On the wait side is having a clearer picture of what the teams holes are and other chips emerging in value over the season.
    I think it depends what you might be shopping for. Typically speaking star position players or ace-level pitchers are not traded midseason unless they’re pending FAs and their teams are completely out of the playoff picture. Of course there are exceptions but a lot of the guys we’re talking about now won’t be there midseason. There’s more financial savings by trading someone now vs less than half their salary at the deadline and you still have less expensive free agents to backfill their spots if needed.

    I think the deadline will produce a lackluster crop of candidates outside of maybe the bullpen. Most of the best 2020-21 free agents are on good teams that with 2 WCs figure to at least be in the mix by the deadline. I suppose Arenado could still be out there but if they get past their issues now he’s probably not available at the deadline. The NL is also wide open so all but a few teams (Marlins, Pirates) might be in the WC mix. Detroit, KC, Seattle and Baltimore are the only likely sellers in the AL.

  5. #8005

    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    I would think in an Arenado deal the receiving team would negotiate that the opt out be cancelled, or bought out. It is possible?

  6. #8006

    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMuntz View Post
    Arenado will only be a 2 year commitment (barring injury). Judge isn't an UFA until 2023. Torres isn't an UFA until 2025. Now is the time to go all in.
    I agree. The window was opened in 2017, but really this is the first year I feel like they went all in to get that ring. After this year we do possibly lose Tanaka and Paxton though. 2020 might be the peak year of this window.

    If we can get Arenado (plus cash) for Andujar and Happ plus some lower prospects we should go for it. (Happ to offset some of the money).
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  7. #8007
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ace View Post
    I would think in an Arenado deal the receiving team would negotiate that the opt out be cancelled, or bought out. It is possible?
    Anything is possible in negotiations.
    Forgive me for taking the Contrarian view

  8. #8008
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by longtimeyankeefan View Post
    Anything is possible in negotiations.
    Not anything - see ARod and the Red Sox. Giving up a player option might not fly.

  9. #8009
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Not anything - see ARod and the Red Sox. Giving up a player option might not fly.
    We've seen situations where teams have been asked to pickup team options to get an NTC waived. In this case, where you have a player actively seeking a trade, my guess is there's some leverage a team could exert to require a player to pickup their player option. I don't see why the MLBPA would object to that. If memory serves A-Rod was going to accept an actual cut in salary to facilitate the trade. Seems different.

    Honestly though, if I'm the acquiring team I wouldn't want him to pickup that option. I'd only offer a trade package that assumes you have him for two seasons. Why give Colorado the ability to require a return that considers 7 seasons?

  10. #8010
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    He'd probably want something to remove that clause, like add another year or two, and/or move clause to a later date.

    This is rather different than the A-Rod trade situation where he wanted to be paid less, and was setting the bar for the highest paid player.
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  11. #8011
    New Murderer's Row False1's Avatar
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    He'd probably want something to remove that clause, like add another year or two, and/or move clause to a later date.

    This is rather different than the A-Rod trade situation where he wanted to be paid less, and was setting the bar for the highest paid player.
    Well, if he wants to push a trade he may not get concessions. Usually the players gets concessions when they can at least create the perception they want to stay where they are and have full control over that via NTC. That's not the scenario here.

    Moving the clause to a later date is an interesting concept, but wonder if that's permissible. Again, I'd try to acquire him with a package equivalent to 2 years of his production. I wouldn't want the Rockies to be able to extract more value by increasing the guaranteed years of commitment.

  12. #8012
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Not anything - see ARod and the Red Sox. Giving up a player option might not fly.
    IMO, even the ARod situation proves anything is possible in a negotiation- the Red Sox got him to agree to a salary reduction. The problem was the unionís ability to nix the deal.

    In Arenadoís case, a simple quid pro quo would be needed-probably a renegotiation of the remaining years or an extension.
    Forgive me for taking the Contrarian view

  13. #8013
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Well, if he wants to push a trade he may not get concessions. Usually the players gets concessions when they can at least create the perception they want to stay where they are and have full control over that via NTC. That's not the scenario here.

    Moving the clause to a later date is an interesting concept, but wonder if that's permissible. Again, I'd try to acquire him with a package equivalent to 2 years of his production. I wouldn't want the Rockies to be able to extract more value by increasing the guaranteed years of commitment.
    Nolan is already playing the "I’m working hard to get better for my teammates and fans" card. He has a lot of leverage with the NTC and opt out. It's a game of chicken between the teams and player.

    Any halfway decent agent is going to push for some type of compensation.
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  14. #8014
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Guys, it's an option. He can just pick it up now, I think. No?

    Team says we want to know you're hear longterm and as dedicated to it as we are.

    He says, "ok, I choose to accept the option I have in my contract."
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  15. #8015
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Snatch Catch View Post
    Guys, it's an option. He can just pick it up now, I think. No?

    Team says we want to know you're hear longterm and as dedicated to it as we are.

    He says, "ok, I choose to accept the option I have in my contract."
    Where you seeing it as an option?

    I think it's just an 8 year deal with an opt out after the third year.
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  16. #8016
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by longtimeyankeefan View Post
    IMO, even the ARod situation proves anything is possible in a negotiation- the Red Sox got him to agree to a salary reduction. The problem was the unionís ability to nix the deal.

    In Arenadoís case, a simple quid pro quo would be needed-probably a renegotiation of the remaining years or an extension.
    Well, sure, you can agree to anything, but the agreement is meaningless if it doesnít follow the rules. If you look at negotiation as just a fantasy, then what you say is true.

  17. #8017
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    Where you seeing it as an option?

    I think it's just an 8 year deal with an opt out after the third year.
    An opt out is effectively a player option though. He can just say right now, "I'm choosing to legally not exercise the opt-out provision in my contract" and it goes away, right?

    It doesn't materially change the contract so it's not protested by the MLBPA. I feel like this has been done before...
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  18. #8018
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Snatch Catch View Post
    An opt out is effectively a player option though. He can just say right now, "I'm choosing to legally not exercise the opt-out provision in my contract" and it goes away, right?

    It doesn't materially change the contract so it's not protested by the MLBPA. I feel like this has been done before...
    I don't know. I don't think there has been any precedent set with a player removing his future opt out. However, I would think it would more be along the lines of a contract amendment. It's likely written pretty explicitly, "10 days after 2021 season players player has option to opt out of remaining 5 years yadda yadda." I don't think one could just remove a clause with a completely separate declaration/document.
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  19. #8019
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    I feel like someone did it recently - like a player traded to the Cardinals or something, but I can't place it off the top of my head.

  20. #8020
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Im stuck at a practice on my phone, but the Denver Post says he can simply waive it.

  21. #8021
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Snatch Catch View Post
    Im stuck at a practice on my phone, but the Denver Post says he can simply waive it.
    This one? Kinda of think this is rather flippant than CBA accurate.

    — Opt-out clause: Arenado can opt out of his contract after 2021, so this could be a major sticking point in a trade unless the contract was renegotiated. Would the Rangers, for example, be willing to give up top prospects knowing that they could lose Arenado after two seasons? Probably not, so Arenado would likely have to waive the opt-out clause as part of a trade.

    On the other hand, the opt-out clause, which was general manager Jeff Bridich‘s idea, could become a problem for the Rockies if they don’t win in 2020 and 2021. If the Rockies struggle, Arenado would almost certainly opt out, so Bridich might want to strike when the iron is hot.
    https://www.denverpost.com/2019/12/2...e-possibility/

    ...For the record, I don't think it's a major hurdle, but my feeling is that the contract would have to be amended, and Arenado may want compensation more than getting away from the Rockies.
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  22. #8022
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Arenado is owed $234 million over the next seven years, and a separate source said the Cardinals are concerned about the opt-out he has following the 2021 season. The Cardinals likely would ask Arenado to waive the opt-out clause as a condition of the trade, possibly in exchange for adding more guaranteed money to the contract.
    https://www.mlb.com/news/nolan-arena...xchanged-names
    Calmer than you are

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  23. #8023
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    ...For the record, I don't think it's a major hurdle, but my feeling is that the contract would have to be amended, and Arenado may want compensation more than getting away from the Rockies.
    Yeah, I agree that Arenado might want some sort of compensation, I just wonder if it's technically necessary to the MLBPA.
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  24. #8024
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Just a thought. I see BoSox DFAed Denyi Reyes, RHP, 23. I know we have a bunch of RHP and I don't know the scouting but I thought he was one of the promising Boston prospects and it was only 1 year. He was rough up at Portland (AA) last year. I would look into this.

    (I don't see Arenado coming here because of the contract moving forward.)

    Red Sox designated RHP Denyi Reyes for assignment.
    Reyes had an excellent showing in the lower minors in 2018 before struggling to a 4.16 ERA and 116/37 K/BB ratio over 151 1/3 innings last summer at Double-A Portland. The 23-year-old could draw interest on waivers.

    Jan 28, 2020, 6:51 PM ET

  25. #8025
    First Name: Keninovich hardrain's Avatar
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    Re: Official 2019-20 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I liked Mendoza.
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