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  1. #626
    when the going gets tough ... JSG's Avatar
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    Re: 2019 Postseason Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Obnoxio View Post
    Left Kelly in way too long
    Dave Roberts is not a good manager -- which is fine, as I still have not forgiven him for 2004 -- so just desserts. The fact that another ex-Red Sawx Kelly burned the house down just sweetens the deal for me.

    Sending Kelly back for seconds, let alone riding him into oblivion with his CLOSER Jansen on the bench, was nothing short of INANE.

    PS if say Boone had left Khanle in for 2 while Chapman rode the pine, flushing the game, the internet would EXPLODE.

    PS 2 IMHO, both Kershaw and the Dodgers = overrated.

  2. #627

    Re: 2019 Postseason Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JSG View Post
    Dave Roberts is not a good manager -- which is fine, as I still have not forgiven him for 2004 -- so just desserts. The fact that another ex-Red Sawx Kelly burned the house down just sweetens the deal for me.

    Sending Kelly back for seconds, let alone riding him into oblivion with his CLOSER Jansen on the bench, was nothing short of INANE.

    PS if say Boone had left Khanle in for 2 while Chapman rode the pine, flushing the game, the internet would EXPLODE.

    PS 2 IMHO, both Kershaw and the Dodgers = overrated.
    My exact thoughts, well put.

  3. #628

    Re: 2019 Postseason Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HelloNewman View Post
    Likely? He's in right now.

    As for worse playoff performers, Don Newcombe and Nick Swisher pop immediately to mind. Unless you meant "Hall of Fame-caliber players with large postseason sample sizes," which you didn't specify (Swisher has the large sample size but not HOFer. Newcombe might have been a HOFer but for alcohol.)
    So yeah, obviously I agree that he's in right now. I didn't mean "likely" to come across as an understatement.

    And yes, I'm looking for players of Kershaw's caliber. Nick Swisher is a footnote to baseball history and I'm sure if you looked you would find 50 players just like him -- good but not great in the regular season, and not so good in the postseason.

    I'm too young to know what Don Newcombe did specifically -- I guess I just learned that Yogi owned him -- but now that I'm thinking about it more I'm going to say that you'd almost have to disqualify players from before the divisional era or even before the wild card era. I say this because a player like Kershaw (and a team like the Dodgers) is going to have far, far, more postseason appearances in this era. There are teams, the Dodgers being one (and the Braves being another, though they did get that one ring in 1995) that have had season after season of playoff exits under extraordinarily high expectations. Really at this point, even the Yankees would have to go into that category, as they are almost always in the playoffs but have only one ring in the last 19 years.

    So in this era of three playoff rounds, I'm not thinking of any single player who has been good enough to remain such a centerpiece of his team's regular-season success, but who has also been bad enough to be so central to their playoff failures, the way Kershaw has. He's been a through-line for everything that's happened to the Dodgers since he first showed up. There's nobody like that, that I can think of, for any of these other teams.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  4. #629
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    Re: 2019 Postseason Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BabyBombers View Post
    I do not respect that fake fan base though. They barely get 10k fans a game during the regular season. They cry location, but you ever try to get to the Bronx from Long Island for a big Yankee game? Not to mention, Ray's tix are 1-10th the price.

    I do like their players though as you mentioned. Fun team. I still wonder why we didnt protect Choi
    Take the Long Island Rail Road to Penn Station. From Penn Station, walk one block east to 34 St. Herald Sq. and take the B or D to 161 St. Yankee Stadium. Purchase LIRR tickets at ticket offices/machines to "Yankee Stadium". On the "Add Options" screen you may select to add MetroCard for subway travel.
    Not that a city and region with a world class public transportation system has anything to do with the fact the Rays’ home park is on the wrong side of the Bay.
    "Be a voice, not an echo." - Albert Einstein

  5. #630

    Re: 2019 Postseason Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ojo View Post
    Not that a city and region with a world class public transportation system has anything to do with the fact the Rays’ home park is on the wrong side of the Bay.
    Thanks. They need to just implode that dome. Balls hitting the ceiling and catwalks are the most ridiculous thing in baseball. Even more than a 30ft Monster wall. I guess it's up there with he hill and poles in the outfield though the Astros used to have. Now that was dumb.
    The Continuance of Being Great, is Getting Number Twenty-Eight

  6. #631
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    Re: 2019 Postseason Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BabyBombers View Post
    Thanks. They need to just implode that dome. Balls hitting the ceiling and catwalks are the most ridiculous thing in baseball. Even more than a 30ft Monster wall. I guess it's up there with he hill and poles in the outfield though the Astros used to have. Now that was dumb.
    Ballpark quirks are fun. The St Pete Suncoast Dome / Thunder Dome / Tropicana Field’s quirks are an assault on common sense, though.
    "Be a voice, not an echo." - Albert Einstein

  7. #632

    Re: 2019 Postseason Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JSG View Post
    Dave Roberts is not a good manager -- which is fine, as I still have not forgiven him for 2004 -- so just desserts. The fact that another ex-Red Sawx Kelly burned the house down just sweetens the deal for me.

    Sending Kelly back for seconds, let alone riding him into oblivion with his CLOSER Jansen on the bench, was nothing short of INANE.

    PS if say Boone had left Khanle in for 2 while Chapman rode the pine, flushing the game, the internet would EXPLODE.

    PS 2 IMHO, both Kershaw and the Dodgers = overrated.
    Least we forget that Roberts handled his pitching staff as well as Boone handled his in last years ALDS.

  8. #633
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    Re: 2019 Postseason Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fredgmuggs View Post
    The Rays have a nice team with some very good pitching. And Cash is a darn good manager. It's an easy team to root for, except for their dopey stadium.

    (I guess the Nationals survived letting Bryce Harper go. Funny that.)
    The Phils manager fired right after the Nats advance. The Phils manager didn't survive getting Harper.

  9. #634
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    Re: 2019 Postseason Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BabyBombers View Post
    I do not respect that fake fan base though. They barely get 10k fans a game during the regular season. They cry location, but you ever try to get to the Bronx from Long Island for a big Yankee game? Not to mention, Ray's tix are 1-10th the price.

    I do like their players though as you mentioned. Fun team. I still wonder why we didnt protect Choi
    The Slop is a dump and in a bad location, but I think Tampa's bigger problem is that their population is very transient with a lot of northeast transplants who will never give up their allegiance to their original team (i.e., Yankees, Red Sox). I'm skeptical that a franchise will ever draw well there regardless of ballpark quality and location.
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  10. #635
    Get Off My Lawn. Maynerd's Avatar
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    Re: 2019 Postseason Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BabyBombers View Post
    I guess it's up there with he hill and poles in the outfield though the Astros used to have. Now that was dumb.
    Disagree. The best iteration of Yankee Stadium had monuments on the field, instead of behind a wall.
    Quote Originally Posted by ojo
    Ballpark quirks are fun. The St Pete Suncoast Dome / Thunder Dome / Tropicana Field’s quirks are an assault on common sense, though.
    I enjoy the differences between various ballparks. I hated the cookie-cutter sameness we kept seeing back int he 70s. But, the Trop is abhorrent. There's not a single redeeming quality to it.

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
    - President Barack Obama

  11. #636
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    Re: 2019 Postseason Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    Disagree. The best iteration of Yankee Stadium had monuments on the field, instead of behind a wall.
    I enjoy the differences between various ballparks. I hated the cookie-cutter sameness we kept seeing back int he 70s. But, the Trop is abhorrent. There's not a single redeeming quality to it.
    I used to think that way too but any obstacle in play on any baseball field beside the necessary walls is completely and totally itiodic in this day an age. And that includes the monuments that used to be in play at YS.

    I mean do you really want - Hey look Mike Trout just got a career changing knee injury running into the monument in CF!
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  12. #637

    Re: 2019 Postseason Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BabyBombers View Post
    I do not respect that fake fan base though. They barely get 10k fans a game during the regular season. They cry location, but you ever try to get to the Bronx from Long Island for a big Yankee game? Not to mention, Ray's tix are 1-10th the price.

    I do like their players though as you mentioned. Fun team. I still wonder why we didnt protect Choi
    Sometimes you have to make the tough Choi-ce

  13. #638
    Get Off My Lawn. Maynerd's Avatar
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    Re: 2019 Postseason Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    I used to think that way too but any obstacle in play on any baseball field beside the necessary walls is completely and totally itiodic in this day an age. And that includes the monuments that used to be in play at YS.

    I mean do you really want - Hey look Mike Trout just got a career changing knee injury running into the monument in CF!
    The walls just outside the foul line pose a far greater risk than the monuments or the hill ever did. The monuments, in particular, were about a quarter mile from home plate.

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
    - President Barack Obama

  14. #639
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    Re: 2019 Postseason Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    And yes, I'm looking for players of Kershaw's caliber. Nick Swisher is a footnote to baseball history and I'm sure if you looked you would find 50 players just like him -- good but not great in the regular season, and not so good in the postseason.

    I'm too young to know what Don Newcombe did specifically -- I guess I just learned that Yogi owned him -- but now that I'm thinking about it more I'm going to say that you'd almost have to disqualify players from before the divisional era or even before the wild card era.
    So -- players as good as Kershaw in the last 25 years. You've whittled the pool of comparables down to almost nothing.
    "This game has a heartbeat, Brian." -- Joe Torre

  15. #640
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    Re: 2019 Postseason Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    The walls just outside the foul line pose a far greater risk than the monuments or the hill ever did. The monuments, in particular, were about a quarter mile from home plate.
    Um the wall are kind of require though. Random obstacles for fielders to avoid in the field of play, not so much.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  16. #641
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    Re: 2019 Postseason Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HelloNewman View Post
    So -- players as good as Kershaw in the last 25 years. You've whittled the pool of comparables down to almost nothing.
    Chris Sale would be the closest comp but he has far fewer post season innings.

    Really finding a comp for Clayton Kershaw in any era is tough since he career ERA+ of 157 is the best in baseball history for and starting pitcher in BR. Only Rivera who made it over the 1000IP threshold is higher and he did it as a reliever.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  17. #642

    Re: 2019 Postseason Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    I used to think that way too but any obstacle in play on any baseball field beside the necessary walls is completely and totally itiodic in this day an age. And that includes the monuments that used to be in play at YS.

    I mean do you really want - Hey look Mike Trout just got a career changing knee injury running into the monument in CF!
    Exactly. And the sprinkler head that ruined Mantle. Bury it deeper!

    But those poles and hills in Houston were just plain stupid.
    The Continuance of Being Great, is Getting Number Twenty-Eight

  18. #643
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    Re: 2019 Postseason Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    I used to think that way too but any obstacle in play on any baseball field beside the necessary walls is completely and totally itiodic in this day an age. And that includes the monuments that used to be in play at YS.

    I mean do you really want - Hey look Mike Trout just got a career changing knee injury running into the monument in CF!
    Today in the era of 400-foot center fields, you can't have monuments on the field. It wasn't a problem in YS1 because it was 461 feet. At that distance neither Trout nor Mickey Mantle nor probably Usain Bolt is going to get back to the monuments at the same time a long fly ball lands on them. Did anyone get injured running into the monuments in YS1? Serious question.

    (The Polo Grounds also had a monument on the field, about 475 feet out. I don't know of anyone getting injured there either.)
    "This game has a heartbeat, Brian." -- Joe Torre

  19. #644

    Re: 2019 Postseason Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HelloNewman View Post
    Today in the era of 400-foot center fields, you can't have monuments on the field. It wasn't a problem in YS1 because it was 461 feet. At that distance neither Trout nor Mickey Mantle nor probably Usain Bolt is going to get back to the monuments at the same time a long fly ball lands on them. Did anyone get injured running into the monuments in YS1? Serious question.

    (The Polo Grounds also had a monument on the field, about 475 feet out. I don't know of anyone getting injured there either.)
    I have a question. Why did they do that in the first place?
    The Continuance of Being Great, is Getting Number Twenty-Eight

  20. #645
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    Re: 2019 Postseason Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HelloNewman View Post
    Today in the era of 400-foot center fields, you can't have monuments on the field. It wasn't a problem in YS1 because it was 461 feet. At that distance neither Trout nor Mickey Mantle nor probably Usain Bolt is going to get back to the monuments at the same time a long fly ball lands on them. Did anyone get injured running into the monuments in YS1? Serious question.

    (The Polo Grounds also had a monument on the field, about 475 feet out. I don't know of anyone getting injured there either.)
    Whether or not someone did or did not get injured is irrelevant. They serve no purpose other than vanity and potential injury risk.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  21. #646
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    Re: 2019 Postseason Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BabyBombers View Post
    I have a question. Why did they do that in the first place?

    These used to be in center field. Sometime the center fielder would have to dig a ball out from behind them because well why not?
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  22. #647

    Re: 2019 Postseason Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HelloNewman View Post
    So -- players as good as Kershaw in the last 25 years. You've whittled the pool of comparables down to almost nothing.
    Don't understand why you're taking a tone of someone who would like to have an argument. I would enjoy a discussion, if you're up for it.

    If you have examples from before the division / wild card era, I'm all for it. Without doing deep research, I don't believe there's a comp for Kershaw to be found in that era. You'd have to find a team that was making the playoffs (i.e., the World Series) on a regular basis, but was always losing. The Brooklyn Dodgers would be the obvious choice, maybe even the only choice (?), so if Don Newcombe fits the bill then great. Maybe I should go look up his postseason stats, unless you would be so kind as to provide those stats or at least a summary of the multiple times he was the World Series goat.

    Even so, I would humbly submit that the Brooklyn Dodgers could have fielded an NL all-star team and they would still have been perceived as an underdog to the mighty dynasty Yankees. This generation's Dodgers have been overwhelming favorites to at least win the NL pennant year in and year out, and a favorite preseason pick for experts and oddsmakers. To have the staff ace of a perennial favorite be so frequently at the center of their failures is unprecedented as far as I can tell.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  23. #648
    Get Off My Lawn. Maynerd's Avatar
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    Re: 2019 Postseason Thread

    "Ruth, Gehrig, Huggins.....somebody get that ball back to the infield."
    -Casey Stengel

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
    - President Barack Obama

  24. #649
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    Re: 2019 Postseason Thread

    Sweet Lou here is some select regular and post season stats on a few pitchers who underperformed in post season



    Player - ERA - ERA+ PIP, PERA, P w/l

    Kershaw 2.44, 157, 79, 4.43 9-11
    Sale 3.03, 140, 25, 5.76 1-2
    Newcome 3.67, 114, 22, 8.59, 0-4
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  25. #650
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    Re: 2019 Postseason Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BabyBombers View Post
    I have a question. Why did they do that in the first place?
    To memorialize team icons in a spot visible to fans. Ballparks then didn't have "courtyards" past the fence like YS2, and in some eras fans were allowed to exit the stadium via the CF gates, which would afford an even closer look.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Whether or not someone did or did not get injured is irrelevant. They serve no purpose other than vanity and potential injury risk.
    It's actually very relevant. They were placed where they were, at extreme distances, out of a calculation that there was no real injury risk at that distance, and over more than 40 years at three ballparks (Forbes Field also had one at 462 feet) the calculation proved correct.

    I've already said you can't have them in today's stadiums so I don't know what you're growling about.
    "This game has a heartbeat, Brian." -- Joe Torre

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