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  1. #51

    Re: ALDS Pitching Plan Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Donnybaseball72 View Post
    Yes because as I said the minor league season is ending in 2 weeks plus the playoffs (only Trenton has qualified so far).
    Sevy can pick up minor league rehab starts in the next couple of weeks. But why do he or either of the other two need to pitch minor league games? With the Yankees big lead, they can afford to have these guys get their starts in major league games.

    If this were Spring Training they would need to be pitching real games now to be ready for, not just tossing a ball off the mound.
    I expect that they will be pitching in real games. Why do you think they won’t?

    The playoffs start in 6 1/2 weeks not 7 1/2. I won't be optimistic until they announce the rehab assignments.
    You’re right. Thanks for the correction. Bottom line is that they have the same amount of time to get ready for the ALDS as a pitcher in February has to get ready for opening day. Maybe more. So why is this 6 and a half week time frame a problem?

  2. #52
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    Re: ALDS Pitching Plan Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Donnybaseball72 View Post
    I think some of you are being too optimistic on Sevy, Betances and Monty. None have even began their rehab starts and they will need most of the 30 days allowed since it is essentially their Spring Training. Sevy will need 4-5 starts and some of the minor league teams could get knock out of the first round of their playoffs. The longer it takes to begin their rehab assignments the more likely that they will be rehabing in September Yankees games. Sweeney Murti was just on WFAN discussing this decreasing window to get these pitchers ready for the majors.

    This is why I cannot understand how anyone is penciling in Sevy onto the playoff rotation or even counting on Betances or Monty. I am erring on the side of caution regarding their October controbutions.
    100% this. At best I think we might have Severino available as an opener or out of the bullpen. That’s assuming no setbacks.
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  3. #53
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    Re: ALDS Pitching Plan Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyJack View Post
    Sevy can pick up minor league rehab starts in the next couple of weeks. But why do he or either of the other two need to pitch minor league games? With the Yankees big lead, they can afford to have these guys get their starts in major league games.



    I expect that they will be pitching in real games. Why do you think they won’t?



    You’re right. Thanks for the correction. Bottom line is that they have the same amount of time to get ready for the ALDS as a pitcher in February has to get ready for opening day. Maybe more. So why is this 6 and a half week time frame a problem?
    They haven't even announced when any of these 3 pitchers will pitch any minor league games and begin a rehab assignment. That is concerning to me.

    If you don't understand why a pitcher who hasn't faced live batters, a simulated game or a few rehab start needs more than 2 weeks to get ready to be stretched out as a starter and be effective in the majors then I don't know what to tell you,
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  4. #54

    Re: ALDS Pitching Plan Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Donnybaseball72 View Post
    They haven't even announced when any of these 3 pitchers will pitch any minor league games and begin a rehab assignment. That is concerning to me.

    If you don't understand why a pitcher who hasn't faced live batters, a simulated game
    He actually had a sim game and has faced live batters recently.

    or a few rehab start needs more than 2 weeks to get ready to be stretched out as a starter and be effective in the majors then I don't know what to tell you,
    Why does Sevy have to be ready to be effective as a starter to pitch in major league games? The Yankees have the luxury of a big lead. They can afford to have him pitch limited innings almost as an opener initially as they stretch him out over the next 6 weeks - first with a couple of minor league rehab starts and then with the month of September in NY.

    Severino is in Tampa, will throw another sim game ther and should start his first rehab game twin a week:

    https://www.newsday.com/sports/baseb...ino-1.35235046

  5. #55
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    Re: ALDS Pitching Plan Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Donnybaseball72 View Post
    I think some of you are being too optimistic on Sevy, Betances and Monty. None have even began their rehab starts and they will need most of the 30 days allowed since it is essentially their Spring Training. Sevy will need 4-5 starts and some of the minor league teams could get knock out of the first round of their playoffs. The longer it takes to begin their rehab assignments the more likely that they will be rehabing in September Yankees games. Sweeney Murti was just on WFAN discussing this decreasing window to get these pitchers ready for the majors.

    This is why I cannot understand how anyone is penciling in Sevy onto the playoff rotation or even counting on Betances or Monty. I am erring on the side of caution regarding their October controbutions.
    Yep, this is me. Maybe it's a hope rather than optimistic but I really don't have faith with what we have. I will be excited when both Sevy and Betances HAVE real minor league starts. For example I posted Sevy is in the Tampa training complex and this is where we had our pitchers go (I forget his name) before the minors. For me if Sevy can get his pitch count to 80 I am excited. Betances is a RP so 30 pitches is fine (he has the best shot to make the roster) and Monty is a lefty that we need which I don't think will be ready.

    I DO NOT want to pencil in Happ or CC and Tanaka can't go on short notice because Boone still tries to steal outs and don't think he will change in the playoffs (I don't know). Right now we have 3 pitchers for the playoffs against HOU (LAD). Maybe TB has better pitching than us.

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    Re: ALDS Pitching Plan Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyJack View Post
    He actually had a sim game and has faced live batters recently.



    Why does Sevy have to be ready to be effective as a starter to pitch in major league games? The Yankees have the luxury of a big lead. They can afford to have him pitch limited innings almost as an opener initially as they stretch him out over the next 6 weeks - first with a couple of minor league rehab starts and then with the month of September in NY.

    Severino is in Tampa, will throw another sim game ther and should start his first rehab game twin a week:

    https://www.newsday.com/sports/baseb...ino-1.35235046
    It's very simple. You don't want your rehabing starting pitchers who haven't played in 10 months facing major leaguers so quickly. It is more ideal for them to build up their pitch count against minor leaguers for a few starts which is more like the Spring training that they missed. You don't want to rush them back which is what will happen if the minor league teams all get eliminated and Sevy will become a long reliever in September instead of the Ace starter that we so badly need.

    If it all works out and he is at 90 pitches come ALDS then great! But it is not an ideal situation and time is running out. So he pitches another simulated game on Sunday. That puts his first rehab start the following Friday 8/30, probably for High A Tampa. the next start will be Wednesday 9/4 which will be a playoff game. The next start is 9/9 the following Monday but there may not be any minor league games left and he is either rushed to the majors too soon or there are more simulated games.
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  7. #57

    Re: ALDS Pitching Plan Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Donnybaseball72 View Post
    It's very simple. You don't want your rehabing starting pitchers who haven't played in 10 months facing major leaguers so quickly. It is more ideal for them to build up their pitch count against minor leaguers for a few starts which is more like the Spring training that they missed. You don't want to rush them back which is what will happen if the minor league teams all get eliminated and Sevy will become a long reliever in September instead of the Ace starter that we so badly need.

    If it all works out and he is at 90 pitches come ALDS then great! But it is not an ideal situation and time is running out. So he pitches another simulated game on Sunday. That puts his first rehab start the following Friday 8/30, probably for High A Tampa. the next start will be Wednesday 9/4 which will be a playoff game. The next start is 9/9 the following Monday but there may not be any minor league games left and he is either rushed to the majors too soon or there are more simulated games.
    I believe their schedule is more aggressive than what you’re suggesting. Sevy said on Sunday that he expects to pitch his first rehab game within the next week.

    Why would pitching in major league games be rushing him too soon? Pitchers face major leaguers in spring training, not minor leaguers. How is this different? The Yankees have the luxury of a 10 game lead, so they can afford to use some of the remaining games to build him up since each game is not critical.

    I would compare Severino’s situation to David Cone’s in 1996. Cone went down with an aneurysm in his arm in the spring and missed the next 4 months. In August, he pitched 2 minor league rehab starts (10 innings) and made his first major league start on September 2nd. He pitched 7 innings in each of his first 3 starts back.

    Every medical situation is different and every individual player is different. The timeline you’ve laid out is extremely conservative. It doesn’t have to be that way.

  8. #58

    Re: ALDS Pitching Plan Discussion

    Postseason pitching plans have naturally revolves around the starters, but the bullpen will be a really big piece of the puzzle. Possibly bigger than baseball has ever seen.

    We saw Francona go to his best reliever, Andrew Miller, early and often in the playoffs just a few years ago. He then used his bullpen depth to get through the rest of the game. This Yankee team can be like that. With all the days off in the postseason, relievers can be used almost every day, unlike the regular season.

    The Yankees have almost unprecedented bullpen depth. Chapman, Ottavino, Britton, Kahnle, and Hale are all coming off excellent seasons. Green has been up and down, but he has the ability to come up big. He’s done it before. Add Betances and possibly (?) Montgomery to that mix and a manager’s options are mind boggling. As long as your starter gives you as few as 4 strong innings, themanager can go from there. Of course you’d like to get 6-7 innings; it’s just that you’re not hamstrung if you don’t.

    I think of past WS champions who won in the postseason without dominant starting pitching. Like these Yankees, the Big Red Machine 1975-76 had a dominant offense and Sparky “Captain Hook” Anderson ready to pull his starters at a moment’s notice.

    The 1990 Reds had their “Nasty Boys” bullpen ready to step in an put out any fire. The ‘96 Yankees had Mo and Wetteland prepared to shorten any game once the Yankees took the lead. The ‘02 Angels had KRod, Troy Percival and a parade of arms behind them out of the pen to pull off a WS surprise.

    The Yankees real Ace-in-the-Hole going into the postseason is their relief corps. It’s been done before although never quite like this.

  9. #59
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    Re: ALDS Pitching Plan Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyJack View Post
    Postseason pitching plans have naturally revolves around the starters, but the bullpen will be a really big piece of the puzzle. Possibly bigger than baseball has ever seen.

    We saw Francona go to his best reliever, Andrew Miller, early and often in the playoffs just a few years ago. He then used his bullpen depth to get through the rest of the game. This Yankee team can be like that. With all the days off in the postseason, relievers can be used almost every day, unlike the regular season.

    The Yankees have almost unprecedented bullpen depth. Chapman, Ottavino, Britton, Kahnle, and Hale are all coming off excellent seasons. Green has been up and down, but he has the ability to come up big. He’s done it before. Add Betances and possibly (?) Montgomery to that mix and a manager’s options are mind boggling. As long as your starter gives you as few as 4 strong innings, themanager can go from there. Of course you’d like to get 6-7 innings; it’s just that you’re not hamstrung if you don’t.

    I think of past WS champions who won in the postseason without dominant starting pitching. Like these Yankees, the Big Red Machine 1975-76 had a dominant offense and Sparky “Captain Hook” Anderson ready to pull his starters at a moment’s notice.

    The 1990 Reds had their “Nasty Boys” bullpen ready to step in an put out any fire. The ‘96 Yankees had Mo and Wetteland prepared to shorten any game once the Yankees took the lead. The ‘02 Angels had KRod, Troy Percival and a parade of arms behind them out of the pen to pull off a WS surprise.

    The Yankees real Ace-in-the-Hole going into the postseason is their relief corps. It’s been done before although never quite like this.
    One thing to think about. The 75/76,90 Reds, 02 Angel's and 96 Yankees all had excellent managers running things who knew how to work the bullpen. We have Boone and The Kids in the Hall.

  10. #60
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    Re: ALDS Pitching Plan Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyJack View Post
    I believe their schedule is more aggressive than what you’re suggesting. Sevy said on Sunday that he expects to pitch his first rehab game within the next week.

    Why would pitching in major league games be rushing him too soon? Pitchers face major leaguers in spring training, not minor leaguers. How is this different? The Yankees have the luxury of a 10 game lead, so they can afford to use some of the remaining games to build him up since each game is not critical.

    I would compare Severino’s situation to David Cone’s in 1996. Cone went down with an aneurysm in his arm in the spring and missed the next 4 months. In August, he pitched 2 minor league rehab starts (10 innings) and made his first major league start on September 2nd. He pitched 7 innings in each of his first 3 starts back.

    Every medical situation is different and every individual player is different. The timeline you’ve laid out is extremely conservative. It doesn’t have to be that way.
    Are you seriously comparing pitching rehabs from 1996 to today? It's a complete different mindset now where teams are ultra conservative an cautious.

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  11. #61
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    Re: ALDS Pitching Plan Discussion

    I think I have started to not think about rotation, or bullpen, or anything like that, For our postseason I am just thinking pitchers. And I am just thinking about pitchers who can get outs in that environment. The postseason has a lot of off days, and as such, we should not fear throwing 5 or 6 pitchers in a game if needed. And that is why I think we can use Sevy, or Dellin. I am not expecting Sevy back for 7 innings of 2 hit ball, I fear that ship has sailed this year.. But I do think we can get him breathing fire for two innings in multiple games in a series perhaps.. And that in and of itself can be a weapon..


    The Astros and Dodgers have the ability to plot a rotation plan and ride it. We don't.. Get the twelve or thirteen best out getters you think you have on the staff and throw them at the opposition, roles be damned at this point..
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  12. #62

    Re: ALDS Pitching Plan Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by aeromac76 View Post
    I think I have started to not think about rotation, or bullpen, or anything like that, For our postseason I am just thinking pitchers. And I am just thinking about pitchers who can get outs in that environment. The postseason has a lot of off days, and as such, we should not fear throwing 5 or 6 pitchers in a game if needed. And that is why I think we can use Sevy, or Dellin. I am not expecting Sevy back for 7 innings of 2 hit ball, I fear that ship has sailed this year.. But I do think we can get him breathing fire for two innings in multiple games in a series perhaps.. And that in and of itself can be a weapon..


    The Astros and Dodgers have the ability to plot a rotation plan and ride it. We don't.. Get the twelve or thirteen best out getters you think you have on the staff and throw them at the opposition, roles be damned at this point..

    this^^^
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  13. #63
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    Re: ALDS Pitching Plan Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by aeromac76 View Post
    I think I have started to not think about rotation, or bullpen, or anything like that, For our postseason I am just thinking pitchers. And I am just thinking about pitchers who can get outs in that environment. The postseason has a lot of off days, and as such, we should not fear throwing 5 or 6 pitchers in a game if needed. And that is why I think we can use Sevy, or Dellin. I am not expecting Sevy back for 7 innings of 2 hit ball, I fear that ship has sailed this year.. But I do think we can get him breathing fire for two innings in multiple games in a series perhaps.. And that in and of itself can be a weapon..


    The Astros and Dodgers have the ability to plot a rotation plan and ride it. We don't.. Get the twelve or thirteen best out getters you think you have on the staff and throw them at the opposition, roles be damned at this point..
    I really think this ^^^ needs to be the plan. I started this thread saying we shouldn't be depending on Severino or Betances, that hopefully they'll just be healthy and "average" in their roles.

    Severino I can see as an opener or a two-headed monster coupled up with another starter (CC? Haap? German? Paxton?), but you're right - the plan should be to use the best pitchers in the best situations, whatever they may be. The Yankees' strength is in their depth - they need to come up with a plan using their best 11-13 pitchers, regardless of whether any one of them is called a starter or an opener or a reliever.
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  14. #64
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    Re: ALDS Pitching Plan Discussion

    The 25 man roster makeup will obviously have a significant effect on the plan. Depending on how the final roster decisions are made, you may not see Happ or even one of CC, Dellin or Sevy if they don’t prove healthy or their performance is not up to snuff. Would you rather have a healthy Cortes or a somewhat healthy Betances? Would you rather have EE and Voit or a 13th pitcher? What do we do with Tauch and/or Maybin. Impossible to predict the pitching staff at this point.

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    Re: ALDS Pitching Plan Discussion

    I do not love the idea of using an opener in the playoffs but it might be inevitable at this point. I just do not see how you throw Happ or CC out there the way they are pitching.
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  16. #66
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    Re: ALDS Pitching Plan Discussion

    Happless has completely pitched his way off the Post season roster discussion. I would rather Lasagna take his place.
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  17. #67
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    Re: ALDS Pitching Plan Discussion

    Random thoughts:

    We just need a bunch of guys that can throw 2 or 3 shutdown innings. High strikeout guys or guys with high ground ball ratios. Gotta have a handful that can pitch effectively two days in a row. I think they have a roster that can do this.

    German shouldn't be pitching on the road in October - he gets hit much harder: 18 HRs in 65 innings, with a 1.29 WHIP, vs. 9 HRs in 56 innings with a .096 WHIP @ the Stadium.

    Paxton should come in for the 7th batter, so an opener that can get 3-6 outs ahead of him could make a nice difference. Loaisiga? Green?

    If CC or Haap are used at all, it should be in the middle innings, let them go through the lineup once. So gotta have a couple of guys start ahead of them, maybe like Severino & Green.

    Generally if Tanaka start out strong, he stays strong. Gotta be ready to have a quick hook when he starts his 1st inning - we'll know if he's on over his first 20 pitches or so.

    Loaisiga, Betances, Kahnle, Ottovino, Britton and Chapman should be formed into two teams that are ready starting with the 7th inning for each game.

    That's 13 guys. One too many IMO. I'm certainly wanting 13 position players.

    Gotta wonder, if it comes down to CC or Haap on the roster......who gets the spot?
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  18. #68

    Re: ALDS Pitching Plan Discussion

    So basically the idea is that the Yankees should bullpen their way through the playoffs. I'd love to see it, and I agree that it's the team's best chance

    on WFAN, Boone said:

    "...[W]e might have to do it in a different kind of way, in a unique way, or it could end up being a more traditional way of doing it. But we'll go into a postseason series, hopefully, with a pitching staff capable of, on a nightly basis getting really high leverage, 27 outs, and that's the goal."


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  19. #69
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    Re: ALDS Pitching Plan Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by SatchelPaigeYankee View Post
    So basically the idea is that the Yankees should bullpen their way through the playoffs. I'd love to see it, and I agree that it's the team's best chance
    I agree it's their best chance. They can't match up to the likes of most of the other playoff bound teams' starting rotations, but their strength lies in their depth.

    Boone just needs to figure out how to piece each game together, and put his pitchers in situations where they can succeed. He has to think out of the box, not conventionally. He needs to use the built in off days in the series in order to keep 12 guys fresh and ready to do whatever is called upon them. He needs to steer this ship.
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  20. #70

    Re: ALDS Pitching Plan Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyJack View Post
    He actually had a sim game and has faced live batters recently.



    Why does Sevy have to be ready to be effective as a starter to pitch in major league games? The Yankees have the luxury of a big lead. They can afford to have him pitch limited innings almost as an opener initially as they stretch him out over the next 6 weeks - first with a couple of minor league rehab starts and then with the month of September in NY.

    Severino is in Tampa, will throw another sim game ther and should start his first rehab game twin a week:

    https://www.newsday.com/sports/baseb...ino-1.35235046
    Big lead? Do you realize that after this weekend the lead could be down to 5 games with 30 left to play? Yankees play the best team in the majors and TB plays probably the worst team in the majors this weekend. I'm certainly rooting hard for the Yankees but I'm being realistic. 1st place in the division could come down to the wire.

  21. #71

    Re: ALDS Pitching Plan Discussion

    In my experience, most fans consider the final 3 or 4 starts as the most important in these decisions. I'm no exception. I'd probably go:
    1: Paxton
    2: Tanaka
    3: CC - *backed by Severino
    4: German
    5: Game 1 starter.

    *Given the quick hook nature of the playoffs, I like the contrast between CC and Sevy. Perhaps a real reliever is used to escape a jam, but there's no way CC sees the 3rd time through the order. Honestly, I'm not committed to the order of Tanaka and Paxton, but they get the ball in 1 & 2.
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  22. #72

    Re: ALDS Pitching Plan Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by secret_face View Post
    In my experience, most fans consider the final 3 or 4 starts as the most important in these decisions. I'm no exception. I'd probably go:
    1: Paxton
    2: Tanaka
    3: CC - *backed by Severino
    4: German
    5: Game 1 starter.

    *Given the quick hook nature of the playoffs, I like the contrast between CC and Sevy. Perhaps a real reliever is used to escape a jam, but there's no way CC sees the 3rd time through the order. Honestly, I'm not committed to the order of Tanaka and Paxton, but they get the ball in 1 & 2.
    I think home/road splits will play a very big role. I'm pretty sure Tanaka and especially German are both noticeably better at home.
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  23. #73
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    Re: ALDS Pitching Plan Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    I think home/road splits will play a very big role. I'm pretty sure Tanaka and especially German are both noticeably better at home.
    On the road, German has given up 18 HRs in 65 innings, with a 5.82 ERA & 1.29 WHIP, vs. 9 HRs in 56 innings with a 2.24 ERA & .096 WHIP @ the Stadium.

    Tanaka, in 85.2 IP @ home has a 1.11 WHIP and a 3.26 ERA . On the road he's pitched 64 innings and has a 1.45 WHIP & a 6.58 ERA

    Both these guys are pitching @ Yankee Stadium (exclusively) if I have anything to say about it lol.
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  24. #74
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    Re: ALDS Pitching Plan Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    On the road, German has given up 18 HRs in 65 innings, with a 5.82 ERA & 1.29 WHIP, vs. 9 HRs in 56 innings with a 2.24 ERA & .096 WHIP @ the Stadium.

    Tanaka, in 85.2 IP @ home has a 1.11 WHIP and a 3.26 ERA . On the road he's pitched 64 innings and has a 1.45 WHIP & a 6.58 ERA

    Both these guys are pitching @ Yankee Stadium (exclusively) if I have anything to say about it lol.
    So Tanaka and German should pitch games 1& 2 with one of them back for a possible game 5 in the first round. Sounds so simple.

  25. #75
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    Re: ALDS Pitching Plan Discussion

    My plan is to enjoy the rest of the regular season first.
    Just win!

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