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  1. #26
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    Re: NYYFans FB League - Discussion Regarding Possible Draft Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Big_E View Post
    I'm in 5 keeper leagues, they're all done in snake drafts.
    If we were 10 teams then I'd say fine, with first pick you're getting 1 and 20 and 21 that's fine.
    With 20 teams as the first pick you're getting 1 and 40 and 41 that's just such a dramatic difference. The level of scoring talent is especially in the SP area is so thin. That's why I think the 2nd, 3rd and 4th Rd should be random but with groupings so that the top picks actually get a benefit.

  2. #27
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    Re: NYYFans FB League - Discussion Regarding Possible Draft Changes

    100% in favor of changing the draft system. As it currently stands, I'd rather have picks 10 and 31, than 1 and 40. Not a lot of reasons to go for most non-playoff points. The idea above, with randomizing & groupings for Rounds 2+, sounds good.
    Should we put this to a vote?

  3. #28
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    Re: NYYFans FB League - Discussion Regarding Possible Draft Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisRo View Post
    100% in favor of changing the draft system. As it currently stands, I'd rather have picks 10 and 31, than 1 and 40. Not a lot of reasons to go for most non-playoff points. The idea above, with randomizing & groupings for Rounds 2+, sounds good.
    Should we put this to a vote?
    Sounds good to me!

  4. #29
    It's time for fantasy baseball gdn's Avatar
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    Re: NYYFans FB League - Discussion Regarding Possible Draft Changes

    I don't know what we are voting on. We need to get a proposal finalized. Maybe two different options.

  5. #30
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    Re: NYYFans FB League - Discussion Regarding Possible Draft Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by gdn View Post
    I don't know what we are voting on. We need to get a proposal finalized. Maybe two different options.
    I think there are multiple options to consider:
    1. Keep as is
    2. The crazy difficult way I proposed earlier (linear 1st, random 2nd, random within group 3rd, random reversed groupings 4th, snake 21 & 22)
    3. Keep the same order throughout the draft (no snake)
    4. Linear 1st, random 2 - 22
    5. Some difficulty (linear first randomized 2 - 22)
    6. Something else

  6. #31
    It's time for fantasy baseball gdn's Avatar
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    Re: NYYFans FB League - Discussion Regarding Possible Draft Changes

    What if we did snake for the first two rounds and then everyone moves down a spot in each later round. Maybe that will punish teams in the later half too much.

    What if we moved teams down each round in blocks of 5?

    Rd 3: 1-5, 6-10, 11-15, 16-20
    Rd 4: 6-10, 11-15, 16-20, 1-5
    Rd 5: 11-15, 16-20, 1-5, 6-10
    Rd 6: 16-20, 1-5, 6-10, 11-15

    Repeat.

  7. #32
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    Re: NYYFans FB League - Discussion Regarding Possible Draft Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by gdn View Post
    What if we did snake for the first two rounds and then everyone moves down a spot in each later round. Maybe that will punish teams in the later half too much.

    What if we moved teams down each round in blocks of 5?

    Rd 3: 1-5, 6-10, 11-15, 16-20
    Rd 4: 6-10, 11-15, 16-20, 1-5
    Rd 5: 11-15, 16-20, 1-5, 6-10
    Rd 6: 16-20, 1-5, 6-10, 11-15

    Repeat.
    The 2nd round requires the most fixing. The champjon gets two top 39 picks whereas the highest draft pick gets 1, in most of our minds (at least I think) that's more of a punishment than a benefit.
    The second option (the crazy difficult one) actually has the best draft pick distribution. Every team has an equal chance to have the first pick of the round every 4th round (2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, 18th).

  8. #33
    It's time for fantasy baseball gdn's Avatar
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    Re: NYYFans FB League - Discussion Regarding Possible Draft Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by ruthianblast View Post
    The 2nd round requires the most fixing. The champjon gets two top 39 picks whereas the highest draft pick gets 1, in most of our minds (at least I think) that's more of a punishment than a benefit.
    The second option (the crazy difficult one) actually has the best draft pick distribution. Every team has an equal chance to have the first pick of the round every 4th round (2nd, 6th, 10th, 14th, 18th).
    I think that’s just a bit too random. I like the idea but I’d prefer it if it were more predictable.

  9. #34
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    Re: NYYFans FB League - Discussion Regarding Possible Draft Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by gdn View Post
    I think that’s just a bit too random. I like the idea but I’d prefer it if it were more predictable.
    The more predictabe the more it favors either the top or the bottom of the draft. If we take out the random 2nd then perhaps we could randomize based on groups of 10 and just flip. That way each round you're guaranteed either a top 10 or bottom 10 pick for that round but there would likely be a better distribution. That would push avg pick towards the mean; reducing high 1st round pick advantage.

  10. #35
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    Re: NYYFans FB League - Discussion Regarding Possible Draft Changes

    Just because I wanted to see what it looked like here's the average draft pick distribution for each team based on their 1st round:























    Team pick in Round 1 Avg Draft Position
    18
    28
    310
    49
    57
    68
    79
    89
    97
    106
    117
    129
    138
    1411
    1510
    167
    179
    189
    1910
    208

  11. #36
    2013 NYYFans Fantasy Champ miko's Avatar
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    Re: NYYFans FB League - Discussion Regarding Possible Draft Changes

    I don't understand how you get those numbers or what they even mean.

  12. #37
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    Re: NYYFans FB League - Discussion Regarding Possible Draft Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by miko View Post
    I don't understand how you get those numbers or what they even mean.

    The left column is the 1st round order.
    The right column is the average draft position throughout all rounds of draft. Essentially, the lower the number the earlier in each round on average that team gets.
    For comparison, in a snake draft every team has an equal average draft position that is half the number of teams (well actually slightly higher, but close enough).

  13. #38
    It's time for fantasy baseball gdn's Avatar
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    Re: NYYFans FB League - Discussion Regarding Possible Draft Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by ruthianblast View Post
    The left column is the 1st round order.
    The right column is the average draft position throughout all rounds of draft. Essentially, the lower the number the earlier in each round on average that team gets.
    For comparison, in a snake draft every team has an equal average draft position that is half the number of teams (well actually slightly higher, but close enough).
    So, if I understand this correctly, if I pick first in the first round, on average I’m picking 8th in the remaining rounds? And so on?

  14. #39
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    Re: NYYFans FB League - Discussion Regarding Possible Draft Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by gdn View Post
    So, if I understand this correctly, if I pick first in the first round, on average I’m picking 8th in the remaining rounds? And so on?
    On average, yes.

    I didn't weight the rounds which would be another interesting exercise, just to see the true distribution of pick value.

  15. #40
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    Re: NYYFans FB League - Discussion Regarding Possible Draft Changes

    So with this system there would be no reward based on draft position. Not saying that’s a bad thing necessarily but how are you going to incentivize teams to try to win when they’re eliminated from the playoffs? Just having a better 1st round pick?

  16. #41
    First Name: Keninovich hardrain's Avatar
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    Re: NYYFans FB League - Discussion Regarding Possible Draft Changes

    This thread makes my head hurt.

  17. #42
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    Re: NYYFans FB League - Discussion Regarding Possible Draft Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by JMP08 View Post
    So with this system there would be no reward based on draft position. Not saying that’s a bad thing necessarily but how are you going to incentivize teams to try to win when they’re eliminated from the playoffs? Just having a better 1st round pick?
    Yes; the average draft position is still earlier in most rounds for teams picking early in the first. But overall the distribution is still relatively fair throughout the draft. So slightly better positioning for the teams that stay in it for high draft picks but not an overwhelming advantage.

  18. #43
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    Re: NYYFans FB League - Discussion Regarding Possible Draft Changes

    First, I want to point out that my discussion to follow is not for this season or next season's draft. For what follows.

    Now. I think a problem may be that we are trying to award trying to win all year by draft position. We've seen that this method does not work. In a 20 team league, there is no best draft position. The method that Josh proposed above seems like a good way of evening things out and I'd like to discuss that further, but it does not give a great incentive to stay in the game when you are not in a place to win it all.
    So this may be a way to improve the draft.

    Now (he says again). We need incentive to keep playing.

    What if we did something like this:

    Top two teams not making playoffs get 2 keepers at a 1 round penalty.
    All playoff teams get an additional keeper.
    First round losers get the additional keeper and 2 keepers at a 1 round penalty.
    Second round losers gets the additional keeper and 3 keepers at a 1 round penalty.
    Champjonship loser gets the additional keeper and 4 keepers at a 1 round penalty.
    Champjon gets the additional keeper and 5 keepers at a 1 round penalty.


    Something like that.

    This would incentivize more teams to play for a next year bonus. Then the draft position would be fixed to be more fair to all as Josh has proposed.

  19. #44
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    Re: NYYFans FB League - Discussion Regarding Possible Draft Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    First, I want to point out that my discussion to follow is not for this season or next season's draft. For what follows.

    Now. I think a problem may be that we are trying to award trying to win all year by draft position. We've seen that this method does not work. In a 20 team league, there is no best draft position. The method that Josh proposed above seems like a good way of evening things out and I'd like to discuss that further, but it does not give a great incentive to stay in the game when you are not in a place to win it all.
    So this may be a way to improve the draft.

    Now (he says again). We need incentive to keep playing.

    What if we did something like this:

    Top two teams not making playoffs get 2 keepers at a 1 round penalty.
    All playoff teams get an additional keeper.
    First round losers get the additional keeper and 2 keepers at a 1 round penalty.
    Second round losers gets the additional keeper and 3 keepers at a 1 round penalty.
    Champjonship loser gets the additional keeper and 4 keepers at a 1 round penalty.
    Champjon gets the additional keeper and 5 keepers at a 1 round penalty.


    Something like that.

    This would incentivize more teams to play for a next year bonus. Then the draft position would be fixed to be more fair to all as Josh has proposed.
    That is also a great idea John. I support that in addition to changing the draft.

    Would it behoove us to create a "losers" bracket playoff type scenario for draft position/draft picks? That would potentially negatively impact playoff teams who need to pick up players so probably not a good idea; just throwing it out there.

  20. #45
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    Re: NYYFans FB League - Discussion Regarding Possible Draft Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by ruthianblast View Post
    That is also a great idea John. I support that in addition to changing the draft.

    Would it behoove us to create a "losers" bracket playoff type scenario for draft position/draft picks? That would potentially negatively impact playoff teams who need to pick up players so probably not a good idea; just throwing it out there.
    That would even more greatly impact teams staying involved all year. Excellent thought.

    We're going to make this league great again. Like it was back in the 70's when the Ligers won ever single year.

  21. #46
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    Re: NYYFans FB League - Discussion Regarding Possible Draft Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    That would even more greatly impact teams staying involved all year. Excellent thought.

    We're going to make this league great again. Like it was back in the 70's when the Ligers won ever single year.
    MNYYFFBBLGA? How would one even pronounce that? Muh-nee-fuh-fuh-bub-l-ga?

    The concern is that would lead to non-playoff teams picking up players trying to win the losers bracket. Actual playoff teams would subsequently be unable to pick up a IL player or replacements for other reasons.

  22. #47
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    Re: NYYFans FB League - Discussion Regarding Possible Draft Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by ruthianblast View Post
    MNYYFFBBLGA? How would one even pronounce that? Muh-nee-fuh-fuh-bub-l-ga?

    The concern is that would lead to non-playoff teams picking up players trying to win the losers bracket. Actual playoff teams would subsequently be unable to pick up a IL player or replacements for other reasons.
    No no no... The loser's bracket teams would have rosters frozen as soon as the reg season ends.

  23. #48
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    Re: NYYFans FB League - Discussion Regarding Possible Draft Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    No no no... The loser's bracket teams would have rosters frozen as soon as the reg season ends.
    I mean... they are losers, afterall.

  24. #49
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    Re: NYYFans FB League - Discussion Regarding Possible Draft Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    I mean... they are losers, afterall.
    Fair enough.

  25. #50
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    Re: NYYFans FB League - Discussion Regarding Possible Draft Changes

    Why overcomplicate with crazy random draft positions per round or additional keepers? Non-snake, standard draft is incentive enough. The reason it currently “does not work” is because we have a snake draft, and finishing with the #1 pick means you may have the WORST, not the best draft position.

    Stop trying to make the draft “fair” for everyone. It’s not supposed to be fair. It should reward those who came close and tried, those who need help, and punish playoff teams.

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