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  1. #276
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    Re: The Official 2019 Magic Number Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Doubtful
    You really need to change your sig line to just that.

    Doubtful.
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  2. #277

    Re: The Official 2019 Magic Number Thread

    The Yankees (98-53) are returning home from their three-city road trip still clinging to baseball's best record, though they'll likely be in a tie with Houston by the end of the day.

    With just 11 games to go, here are the magic numbers for clinching a better record than specific teams:
    Indians: 2 (playoff spot)
    Rays: 3 (division)
    A's: 5
    Twins: 6 (home field in the ALDS; takes tiebreaker into account)
    Astros: 12 (best record in the AL)
    Dodgers: 10 (home field in the World Series; takes tiebreaker into account; pending tonight's game @ NYM)

    Go Yankees!

    Last edited by sweet_lou_14; 09-15-19 at 06:04 PM.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  3. #278
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    Re: The Official 2019 Magic Number Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    The Yankees (98-53) are returning home from their three-city road trip still clinging to baseball's best record, though they'll likely be in a tie with Houston by the end of the day.

    With just 11 games to go, here are the magic numbers for clinching a better record than specific teams:
    Indians: 2 (playoff spot)
    Rays: 3 (division)
    A's: 5
    Twins: 6 (home field in the ALDS; takes tiebreaker into account)
    Astros: 12 (best record in the AL)
    Dodgers: 10 (home field in the World Series; takes tiebreaker into account; pending tonight's game @ NYM)

    Go Yankees!

    The greatest baseball player of all time. No one is close.
    In "Kids in the Hall" I trust

  4. #279
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    Re: The Official 2019 Magic Number Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    The greatest baseball player of all time. No one is close.
    Yes. There can be no denying that statement.

  5. #280

    Re: The Official 2019 Magic Number Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    The greatest baseball player of all time. No one is close.
    That whole thing where he could pitch almost as well as he hit pretty much settles the question permanently.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  6. #281
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    Re: The Official 2019 Magic Number Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    That whole thing where he could pitch almost as well as he hit pretty much settles the question permanently.
    That whole thing where the league was segregated will keep that question open, forevermore.
    "Be a voice, not an echo." - Albert Einstein

  7. #282
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    Re: The Official 2019 Magic Number Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    That whole thing where he could pitch almost as well as he hit pretty much settles the question permanently.
    That has always been the main reason for me too. Could have made the HOF as a pitcher.

  8. #283
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    Re: The Official 2019 Magic Number Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ojo View Post
    That whole thing where the league was segregated will keep that question open, forevermore.
    Really? I agree there were some great players in the Negro Leagues that would have been All Stars had they been allowed to play in the major leagues. But I can't think of any Negro League player that could both Hit and pitch like the Babe.

  9. #284
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    Re: The Official 2019 Magic Number Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ymike673 View Post
    Really? I agree there were some great players in the Negro Leagues that would have been All Stars had they been allowed to play in the major leagues. But I can't think of any Negro League player that could both Hit and pitch like the Babe.
    I think the argument about segregation is based not so much on the idea that there was a Negro League 2-way player as good at both aspects as Babe (although there were some good ones), it's the idea that competing in a fully integrated league would have raised the level of competition and suppressed Babe's stats enough so that he wouldn't be the statistical "Everest in Kansas" (as George Will called him) that he is the way things turned out.

    Not sure how I feel about it -- it's reasonable to expect that Negro Leagues pitching stars like Smokey Joe Williams and Bullet Rogan and Bill Foster would have given him a lot more trouble than, say, Milt Gaston and Elam Vangilder did (the most famous of these, Satchel Paige, didn't really hit his prime until later in Babe's career).

    But also there seems to be an assumption underpinning the "Babe was propped up by segregation" argument that there was a veritable army of black superpitchers out there in the Negro Leagues that would have chewed his stats down to Jim Thome level or something. Negro League statistics are woefully incomplete and unreliable but from what we can glean, the stats of the greats seem even more outsized than Babe's in a lot of cases, which suggests that the Negro Leagues had their own "depth issue."

    Of course, you also have to factor in great black fielders who could have robbed him of hits. But then you also have to factor that half of these fielders/pitchers would have gone to the National League where they'd be no bother to Babe's numbers.

    TL/DR version: I'd still rate Babe as the greatest player ever but I wouldn't assert it dogmatically. The segregation argument is valid.
    "This game has a heartbeat, Brian." -- Joe Torre

  10. #285
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    Re: The Official 2019 Magic Number Thread

    The truly great negro league pitchers would have had success against the Babe but I don't think any more than pitchers like Walter Johnson or Lefty Grove did. But really people seem to think every negro league player was a superstar. I would think that during the Babe's career their might have been 4 or 5 Negro League pitchers the caliber of the top white pitchers. Would they have reduced Babe's stats that much. Also at least some of them probably pitch in the NL had the color line been broken back then so Babe never faces them.

  11. #286
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    Re: The Official 2019 Magic Number Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ymike673 View Post
    But really people seem to think every negro league player was a superstar.
    This is more or less what I said, albeit with a bit more nuance.

    Quote Originally Posted by ymike673 View Post
    Also at least some of them probably pitch in the NL had the color line been broken back then so Babe never faces them.
    Pretty sure I said this too.

    Quote Originally Posted by ymike673 View Post
    I would think that during the Babe's career their might have been 4 or 5 Negro League pitchers the caliber of the top white pitchers.
    I don't think we can reliably assert numbers like that. We don't know.

    Of course the forest we're missing for the trees here is that there never should have been a Negro Leagues. The best black players should have been in the majors. We can speculate on "what ifs" but we shouldn't have to. That era is tainted, period. I guess many eras, if not all, have taints of a sort (Steroid Era anyone?) but race is an indelible taint on Babe's era. Not his fault, it just is.
    "This game has a heartbeat, Brian." -- Joe Torre

  12. #287

    Re: The Official 2019 Magic Number Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    The greatest baseball player of all time. No one is close.
    Trout...just a shame that he does it in darkness.

    Anyways, The Captain is next!

  13. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelloNewman View Post
    This is more or less what I said, albeit with a bit more nuance.

    Pretty sure I said this too.

    I don't think we can reliably assert numbers like that. We don't know.

    Of course the forest we're missing for the trees here is that there never should have been a Negro Leagues. The best black players should have been in the majors. We can speculate on "what ifs" but we shouldn't have to. That era is tainted, period. I guess many eras, if not all, have taints of a sort (Steroid Era anyone?) but race is an indelible taint on Babe's era. Not his fault, it just is.
    He still would have been a HOF hitter - at least, far and away the best white hitter of his era - and a HOF-caliber pitcher. Nothing changes that argument.

  14. #289
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    Re: The Official 2019 Magic Number Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    He still would have been a HOF hitter - at least, far and away the best white hitter of his era - and a HOF-caliber pitcher. Nothing changes that argument.
    Which is why I consider Ruth the best over players like Cobb and Hornsby or any player from the Negro Leagues. The Babe is the only player that could have made the HOF as either a batter or a pitcher. It's almost like he was a freak of nature.

  15. #290
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    Re: The Official 2019 Magic Number Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by b_joseph View Post
    Trout...just a shame that he does it in darkness.

    Anyways, The Captain is next!
    Gehrig is second only to the Babe. If not for the rare disease that took his life Lou might have finished his career with 600 HRs and close to 3600 hits.

  16. #291
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    Re: The Official 2019 Magic Number Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ymike673 View Post
    AL umps used the outside chest protector back then. Had a friend who was an amateur umpire and he told me you could call balls and strikes much more accurately the outside protector.
    I think we are spoiled with the TV graphics showing the strike zone and pitch fx data that is available as well as super slowmo replay to show when baseball umpires get it wrong. The difference is today some of the mistakes can be overturned by replay.


    I think back in the day umps made at least as many judgement errors on bases and balls and strikes as they do to today, that is the rate of errors is probably comparable.


    I don't think over time ump some how just got bad relative to umps of the past.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  17. #292
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    Re: The Official 2019 Magic Number Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    He still would have been a HOF hitter - at least, far and away the best white hitter of his era - and a HOF-caliber pitcher. Nothing changes that argument.
    Absolutely. The question is to what degree a fair and integrated MLB would have diminished his stats. We'll never know but it's a human need to speculate. Certainly they would have been diminished at least a bit, he's not hitting Bullet Joe Rogan or Smoky Joe Williams like he hit Dutch Levsen or Ernie Nevers (!).

    Quote Originally Posted by ymike673 View Post
    Which is why I consider Ruth the best over players like Cobb and Hornsby or any player from the Negro Leagues. The Babe is the only player that could have made the HOF as either a batter or a pitcher. It's almost like he was a freak of nature.
    Nobody considers Hornsby the best player ever. By reputation a horrible fielder and a major clubhouse cancer.

    Quote Originally Posted by ymike673 View Post
    Gehrig is second only to the Babe. If not for the rare disease that took his life Lou might have finished his career with 600 HRs and close to 3600 hits.
    That Mays guy was pretty good too. Played most of his career in a wind tunnel and still hit 660 home runs. Great fielder and runner as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    I think we are spoiled with the TV graphics showing the strike zone and pitch fx data that is available as well as super slowmo replay to show when baseball umpires get it wrong. The difference is today some of the mistakes can be overturned by replay.

    I think back in the day umps made at least as many judgement errors on bases and balls and strikes as they do to today, that is the rate of errors is probably comparable.

    I don't think over time ump some how just got bad relative to umps of the past.
    I agree with most of this post. I would add though that I think the state of umpiring has probably deteriorated to some degree via MLB's complacent, laissez-faire attitude toward umpiring. After MLB crushed Richie Phillips' overreaching umpires union in the late 1990s, I expected real reforms. Instead, MLB backed off and let notorious bad actors like Joe West, Angel Hernandez et al. right back into the tent. Nothing changed in the end.

    I think it's reasonable to suspect the old-timey umps may have been a bit better, if only for the lack of job security. Certainly they were less confrontational for the most part. I think only Bill Klem and Doug Harvey were perhaps as confrontational as Joe West or Angel Hernandez, and by reputation Klem and Harvey were much better umpires in terms of accuracy than those two schmoes.

    I mean, did you see the Mets game a few weeks ago when West fell on Rajai Davis and couldn't get up under his own power? I don't think a 1930s ump would have kept his job if he was so fat and useless that he needed Lou Gehrig or Earl Averill or whoever to pull him off the player he fell on.
    "This game has a heartbeat, Brian." -- Joe Torre

  18. #293
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    Re: The Official 2019 Magic Number Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HelloNewman View Post
    Absolutely. The question is to what degree a fair and integrated MLB would have diminished his stats. We'll never know but it's a human need to speculate. Certainly they would have been diminished at least a bit, he's not hitting Bullet Joe Rogan or Smoky Joe Williams like he hit Dutch Levsen or Ernie Nevers (!).

    Nobody considers Hornsby the best player ever. By reputation a horrible fielder and a major clubhouse cancer.

    That Mays guy was pretty good too. Played most of his career in a wind tunnel and still hit 660 home runs. Great fielder and runner as well.

    I agree with most of this post. I would add though that I think the state of umpiring has probably deteriorated to some degree via MLB's complacent, laissez-faire attitude toward umpiring. After MLB crushed Richie Phillips' overreaching umpires union in the late 1990s, I expected real reforms. Instead, MLB backed off and let notorious bad actors like Joe West, Angel Hernandez et al. right back into the tent. Nothing changed in the end.

    I think it's reasonable to suspect the old-timey umps may have been a bit better, if only for the lack of job security. Certainly they were less confrontational for the most part. I think only Bill Klem and Doug Harvey were perhaps as confrontational as Joe West or Angel Hernandez, and by reputation Klem and Harvey were much better umpires in terms of accuracy than those two schmoes.

    I mean, did you see the Mets game a few weeks ago when West fell on Rajai Davis and couldn't get up under his own power? I don't think a 1930s ump would have kept his job if he was so fat and useless that he needed Lou Gehrig or Earl Averill or whoever to pull him off the player he fell on.
    Actually I had a brain lock. Was thinking Honus Wagner but wrote Hornsby instead. I also meant Gehrig was second only to the Babe as the greatest Yankees ball player. Mays would be up there as one of the best all time.

  19. #294

    Re: The Official 2019 Magic Number Thread

    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  20. #295
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    Re: The Official 2019 Magic Number Thread

    What no Red Rolfe?
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  21. #296
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    Re: The Official 2019 Magic Number Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    What no Red Rolfe?

  22. #297
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    Re: The Official 2019 Magic Number Thread

    What. No Paul Blair?

  23. #298
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    Re: The Official 2019 Magic Number Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ymike673 View Post
    What. No Paul Blair?
    I can't do all the work here.

  24. #299
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    Re: The Official 2019 Magic Number Thread

    Oh well ... by popular demand:


  25. #300
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    Re: The Official 2019 Magic Number Thread

    I was joking tz, pretty sure Mike was too. But thanks for the nostalgic picks. Paul Blair was actually one of my favorite opposing players growing up as a kid.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

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