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  1. #26

    Re: 2019 Aroldis Chapman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    Eye-opening stuff. Thanks for this.
    I doubt thereís a meaningful difference in their regular season performances. What sets Mariano apart is how long he performed at that level for (Chapman needs another 10 or so years), and his track record in the postseason. In all fairness, Chapman just hasnít had the same postseason opportunities.

  2. #27

    Re: 2019 Aroldis Chapman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonn1997 View Post
    I doubt thereís a meaningful difference in their regular season performances. What sets Mariano apart is how long he performed at that level for (Chapman needs another 10 or so years), and his track record in the postseason. In all fairness, Chapman just hasnít had the same postseason opportunities.
    The two pitchers are simply not the same. Mo was as automatic as could be, rarely walked anyone to get himself in trouble and didn't need many pitches to get the side out. I think this also contributed to his longevity. He was also a great fielder, something that would allow him to wriggle out of trouble when a runner or two did get on. We will never see another like him. The complete package that made me feel so comfortable and confident when he came in.

  3. #28

    Re: 2019 Aroldis Chapman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonn1997 View Post
    I doubt there’s a meaningful difference in their regular season performances. What sets Mariano apart is how long he performed at that level for (Chapman needs another 10 or so years), and his track record in the postseason. In all fairness, Chapman just hasn’t had the same postseason opportunities.
    I love Mo and not to sound ungrateful, but I think that some Yankee fans tend to forget Cleveland, Arizona and Boston.

  4. #29

    Re: 2019 Aroldis Chapman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by luis pecorino View Post
    I love Mo and not to sound ungrateful, but I think that some Yankee fans tend to forget Cleveland, Arizona and Boston.
    When you can remember key instances of failure over an 18 year career and note them on three fingers of one hand, well that is pretty indicative of how great he was.

  5. #30

    Re: 2019 Aroldis Chapman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Steve View Post
    When you can remember key instances of failure over an 18 year career and note them on three fingers of one hand, well that is pretty indicative of how great he was.
    They were also huge games that he singlehandedly blew that prevented us from winning the World Series and two other World Series visits and potential championships. That’s pretty significant on its own.

  6. #31

    Re: 2019 Aroldis Chapman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by luis pecorino View Post
    They were also huge games that he singlehandedly blew that prevented us from winning the World Series and two other World Series visits and potential championships. Thatís pretty significant on its own.
    Ok, Luis. This is the Chapman thread after all. Let's just leave it at this. He was better at his specific job than anyone has ever been in baseball. No one is perfect but any GM or baseball historian would prefer Mo as their closer than any other reliever who ever lived.

  7. #32
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    Re: 2019 Aroldis Chapman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by luis pecorino View Post
    They were also huge games that he singlehandedly blew that prevented us from winning the World Series and two other World Series visits and potential championships. Thatís pretty significant on its own.
    Right... but if you replaced him with whatever closer (likely closers) you could, how many other games do they blow that keep the Yankees from achieving what they did?

    The guy was on the mound at the end of almost every close, big game during his career. His failures are magnified. He wasn't perfect, but he was the best at what he did at the time.

  8. #33
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    Re: 2019 Aroldis Chapman Performance Thread

    After he went 2-0 on JD Martinez with a man on 2B and no outs, Chapman struck out the side on I believe the next 9 straight pitches.


    It's still cool to have someone who can do that when they get pissed off, as much as he's not perfect.

  9. #34

    Re: 2019 Aroldis Chapman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Steve View Post
    When you can remember key instances of failure over an 18 year career and note them on three fingers of one hand, well that is pretty indicative of how great he was.
    Actually you need 2 hands. He had 5 blown saves and 1 loss in the postseason. He also had 73 blown Saves in the regular season. I love Mo as much as the next guy, but he was placed above criticism. As a result, others took the blame for the teamís failure - like ARod in 2004.

  10. #35

    Re: 2019 Aroldis Chapman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jace View Post
    After he went 2-0 on JD Martinez with a man on 2B and no outs, Chapman struck out the side on I believe the next 9 straight pitches.


    It's still cool to have someone who can do that when they get pissed off, as much as he's not perfect.
    He really can dial it up. Maybe Mike Harkey should insult his mom before sending him out to the mound, so he can be at his best from the first pitch.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  11. #36

    Re: 2019 Aroldis Chapman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyJack View Post
    Actually you need 2 hands. He had 5 blown saves and 1 loss in the postseason. He also had 73 blown Saves in the regular season. I love Mo as much as the next guy, but he was placed above criticism. As a result, others took the blame for the teamís failure - like ARod in 2004.
    Please just stop. Rivera is not the reason for the Yankees' loss in the 2004 ALCS.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  12. #37
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    Re: 2019 Aroldis Chapman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by luis pecorino View Post
    I love Mo and not to sound ungrateful, but I think that some Yankee fans tend to forget Cleveland, Arizona and Boston.
    Mo wasnít great because he didnít have failures (cos he did).

    Mo wasnít great cos he was the best reliever every single year (cos he wasnít).

    Mo was great because he was one of the very best every year and because his worst years was still better than 97% of the relievers in the majors.
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  13. #38
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    Re: 2019 Aroldis Chapman Performance Thread

    In the 18 years Rivera only relieved, he had an ERA over 3.00 once, which was a 3.15 in 2007. Excluding when he pitched 8 1/3 inning in 2012, he had an ERA under 2.00 in 11 of 17 seasons as a reliever.

  14. #39

    Re: 2019 Aroldis Chapman Performance Thread

    His meltdowns are classic.

  15. #40

    Re: 2019 Aroldis Chapman Performance Thread

    Rivera should never be mentioned along with Chapman, in any context. cmon

  16. #41

    Re: 2019 Aroldis Chapman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by danman1202 View Post
    Rivera should never be mentioned along with Chapman, in any context. cmon
    Statistically, is there anything meaningfully different between what the two achieved in the regular season in their primes? Serious question - Iím skeptical but I havenít looked into it.

  17. #42

    Re: 2019 Aroldis Chapman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by danman1202 View Post
    Rivera should never be mentioned along with Chapman, in any context. cmon
    Agreed. Comparing anyone to the first unanimous HOF player is a disservice to the lesser player.
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  18. #43
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    Re: 2019 Aroldis Chapman Performance Thread

    What set Mo apart from all other great closers is his postseason, consistency and longevity.

    I don't see any problem if people use him as a comparison. He is the all time best closer. He should be the benchmark if we talk about greatness.

  19. #44
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    Re: 2019 Aroldis Chapman Performance Thread

    You could take any 3 relievers in baseball history and take each of their 5 best years and one relatively average year and match the mashup against Mariano Rivera's 19 year career.

    And Mariano will have the better career.

    14 seasons sub 2.20 ERA, 11 of which were sub 2.00.

    He finished 952 games to the tune of an ERA+ of the all time leading 205.
    "Be a voice, not an echo." - Albert Einstein

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by ojo View Post
    You could take any 3 relievers in baseball history and take each of their 5 best years and one relatively average year and match the mashup against Mariano Rivera's 19 year career.

    And Mariano will have the better career.

    14 seasons sub 2.20 ERA, 11 of which were sub 2.00.

    He finished 952 games to the tune of an ERA+ of the all time leading 205.
    Actually for regular season only Kimbrel is currently on par with Mo. But he doesn't have his decline phase yet.

    Then Mo blows him away in playoff.

  21. #46
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    Re: 2019 Aroldis Chapman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
    Actually for regular season only Kimbrel is currently on par with Mo. But he doesn't have his decline phase yet.

    Then Mo blows him away in playoff.
    Yeah, Kimbrel's a bit of an outlier, too. But he's not built for the long haul (read: the 2nd half of his career likely will not end the way he wants). Dude strikes out too many hitters. Walks too man, too. Resulting in too many pitches thrown.

    Looking back at Rivera's career...Where's the decline again?

    And oh yes...career playoffs (combined DS, CS, WS): 141 IP, 0.70 ERA, 0.76 WHIP, 5.23 SO/BB, 5.49 H/9.
    "Be a voice, not an echo." - Albert Einstein

  22. #47
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    Re: 2019 Aroldis Chapman Performance Thread

    Beg out of the Overblown Exhibition Fiasco big fella. Take 4 days off to rest that knee.
    There's a sinister plot a brewin'

  23. #48

    Re: 2019 Aroldis Chapman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ojo View Post
    Yeah, Kimbrel's a bit of an outlier, too. But he's not built for the long haul (read: the 2nd half of his career likely will not end the way he wants). Dude strikes out too many hitters. Walks too man, too. Resulting in too many pitches thrown.

    Looking back at Rivera's career...Where's the decline again?

    And oh yes...career playoffs (combined DS, CS, WS): 141 IP, 0.70 ERA, 0.76 WHIP, 5.23 SO/BB, 5.49 H/9.
    Rivera defies the laws of human biology. He could still be a major league pitcher today.

  24. #49
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    Re: 2019 Aroldis Chapman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by billyhoyle View Post
    Rivera defies the laws of human biology. He could still be a major league pitcher today.
    I think I remember batters joking about not using their own bats when facing him to avoid losing from their own stash. Iím sure it wasnít serious.
    "Be a voice, not an echo." - Albert Einstein

  25. #50
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    Re: 2019 Aroldis Chapman Performance Thread

    In the Cy Young Predictor, he's the best reliever in MLB, and the best pitcher other than Verlander and Ryu.

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