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  1. #1826

    Re: 2019 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinStripes View Post
    or our pitching coaches suck.
    That could be it too...
    The Continuance of Being Great, is Getting Number Twenty-Eight

  2. #1827

    Re: 2019 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeter99 View Post
    You can throw up all the numbers you want, I watched every game Sonny pitched for the Yankees. It was obvious he couldn't handle the pressure of pitching in NY. He would pitch great on the road, then come home and constantly nibble, walk batter, then give up the big blast, get pulled all while shaking his head.He didn't trust his stuff enough to throw it across the plate at Yankee Stadium.
    I watched and agree that he looked terrible in those 59 innings. Itís still a terrible reason to give up on an all-star caliber pitcher. So instead we end up with Happ, who ironically looked very good in 63 innings last year.

  3. #1828
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    Re: 2019 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BabyBombers View Post
    Do you think they would pitch well in NY though? We really dont know. Sonny Gray is a perfect example. When we traded for him, it seemed like a nice trade. Not TOR trade but nice. IF the Reds traded for him instead and he was pitching like he is now in Cincinnati, would we wonder why Cashman never tried to trade for him to get him here?

    Pitching in the Bronx is just a different animal. The ball park dimensions are intimidating and the media is relentless. It takes special players to stay focused and not fall apart.

    Not to mention, Houston and Tampa work wonders with their pitchers. As for Corbin, he really hasnt been that good this season IMO. He just recently turned a corner about a month ago. Mid June he was sporting a 4.11 ERA in the NL.
    What exactly is your solution then?? TOR starters dont exactly grow on trees. Sometimes you have to go after what the best avaliable guys are. This past winter it was Corbin and Morton. Keuchel has his warts but we could have had him for just money on a 1 year deal.
    Now we're stuck looking at guys that have alot of baggage for variety of reasons, whether its effectiveness, age, being unproven or whatever it is. Plus you now have to give up prospects for them.

    Would I rather bite the bullet and go to a 6th year on Corbin then be stuck with the options were looking at now? Absolutely

  4. #1829
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    Re: 2019 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by smckdwn989 View Post
    The narrative that we passed on Morton isn't accurate. As many have pointed out he was very clear about wanting to only pitch for certain markets. Corbin got too many years and dollars so I was fine with that. You have a point with Keuchel, but he doesn't strike me as the TOR type guy the yankees need.
    I remember hearing Morton wanted to pitch on the East Coast to be closer to his wife's family in Delaware. Did he specifically say "I dont want to pitch in NY"?

  5. #1830

    Re: 2019 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dabomb2045 View Post
    What exactly is your solution then?? TOR starters dont exactly grow on trees. Sometimes you have to go after what the best avaliable guys are. This past winter it was Corbin and Morton. Keuchel has his warts but we could have had him for just money on a 1 year deal.
    Now we're stuck looking at guys that have alot of baggage for variety of reasons, whether its effectiveness, age, being unproven or whatever it is. Plus you now have to give up prospects for them.

    Would I rather bite the bullet and go to a 6th year on Corbin then be stuck with the options were looking at now? Absolutely
    I know one thing, they better go big and get a 29 year old Cole next year. 8 years $250m at least. Cant let him get away. And with a trade for either Bauer or Stroman this year, that makes a rotation of Severino, Cole, Tanaka, Paxton and Bauer/Stroman in 2020. Thats pretty solid. Montgomery and German as well. I think we can cut Happ if he continues to struggle.
    The Continuance of Being Great, is Getting Number Twenty-Eight

  6. #1831
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    Re: 2019 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dabomb2045 View Post
    I remember hearing Morton wanted to pitch on the East Coast to be closer to his wife's family in Delaware. Did he specifically say "I dont want to pitch in NY"?
    No, he never said he didn't want to pitch in NY. There's no way to know for certain but we have no reason to doubt that he would have accepted an offer from the Yankees if it was better than Tampa's offer. For whatever reason Cashman seemed to prefer Happ.
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  7. #1832

    Re: 2019 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMuntz View Post
    No, he never said he didn't want to pitch in NY. There's no way to know for certain but we have no reason to doubt that he would have accepted an offer from the Yankees if it was better than Tampa's offer. For whatever reason Cashman seemed to prefer Happ.
    Didnt Morton hurt his shoulder down the stretch last year? I think he did... Late last year... 36 year old with shoulder injury. Not that encouraging.
    The Continuance of Being Great, is Getting Number Twenty-Eight

  8. #1833
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    Re: 2019 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinStripes View Post
    or our pitching coaches suck.

    As James O'Connell may be not so subtly intimating: https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/b...s6y-story.html

  9. #1834
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    Re: 2019 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BabyBombers View Post
    Didnt Morton hurt his shoulder down the stretch last year? I think he did... Late last year... 36 year old with shoulder injury. Not that encouraging.
    Fair point.
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  10. #1835
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    Re: 2019 Trade Deadline Thread

    Boone just said on WFAN Luke will probably play a rehab game first before returning. Betances and Sevy should start throwing program after next week. #Yankees



    Also said Cashman will leave no stone unturned and try for a starter. But if they can’t get anyone, they feel good about the pitchers they have in the pipeline. So will Deivi Garcia be a good chance this year?

  11. #1836
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    Re: 2019 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    What is it about Strohman you don't like?

    There is certainly risk involved as his variance in performance is quite large season to season but in 2017 he pitched 200+ IP with a ERA+ of 145 and this season he's thrown over 100+ IP of 141 ERA+ ball so the ceiling for ace is clearly there.

    But there is also wild variance as last year his ERA was over 5.5 and his ERA+ 76.

    He's not homer prone so that's a plus but then he's not a big strikeout guy so that's a negative.

    I can't answer for him, but I don't think Stro. adds an elite arm to the rotation, as Zim says. It may be impossible, of course, to find such an arm at an acceptable price, but Houston and LA do bring such arms. In a short series, against a team that, like the NYY, will have several dangerous free-swinging but highly K-prone hitters. . . . Well, I'm old enough to remember 1963, when a 104-57 Yankee team didn't win a game against a truly elite Dodger staff.

  12. #1837
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    Re: 2019 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by OdiN9 View Post
    Boone just said on WFAN Luke will probably play a rehab game first before returning. Betances and Sevy should start throwing program after next week. #Yankees



    Also said Cashman will leave no stone unturned and try for a starter. But if they can’t get anyone, they feel good about the pitchers they have in the pipeline. So will Deivi Garcia be a good chance this year?

    In September, maybe, if he shows the same stuff--with the same results!--n AAA.

  13. #1838
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    Re: 2019 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SatchelPaigeYankee View Post
    Besides this seemingly schizophrenic fan fiction self-dialogue thing above, can you provide any reasons or evidence for your concerns about Stroman?
    Sorry but my other half won't allow me to respond to you.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  14. #1839
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    Re: 2019 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    What is it about Strohman you don't like?

    There is certainly risk involved as his variance in performance is quite large season to season but in 2017 he pitched 200+ IP with a ERA+ of 145 and this season he's thrown over 100+ IP of 141 ERA+ ball so the ceiling for ace is clearly there.

    But there is also wild variance as last year his ERA was over 5.5 and his ERA+ 76.

    He's not homer prone so that's a plus but then he's not a big strikeout guy so that's a negative.
    Stroman simply isn't the TOR-type starter this team has needed for years now. He's another #3-4 type starter when we really need a #1 or #2.

    I also don't like the inconsistency he's displayed throughout his career and his career numbers pitching at YSIII are putrid.

    Additionally, I have deep concerns about how his small 5'7" frame can hold up with time.

    I just don't see much there to get excited about. I'd much rather go for Bauer or MadBum.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  15. #1840
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    Re: 2019 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bauer View Post
    I can't answer for him, but I don't think Stro. adds an elite arm to the rotation, as Zim says. It may be impossible, of course, to find such an arm at an acceptable price, but Houston and LA do bring such arms. In a short series, against a team that, like the NYY, will have several dangerous free-swinging but highly K-prone hitters. . . . Well, I'm old enough to remember 1963, when a 104-57 Yankee team didn't win a game against a truly elite Dodger staff.
    Thanks, Bauer - great post!
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  16. #1841
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    Re: 2019 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by OdiN9 View Post
    Boone just said on WFAN Luke will probably play a rehab game first before returning. Betances and Sevy should start throwing program after next week. #Yankees



    Also said Cashman will leave no stone unturned and try for a starter. But if they canít get anyone, they feel good about the pitchers they have in the pipeline. So will Deivi Garcia be a good chance this year?
    Hopefully just posturing to avoid seeming desperate. I don't think they should rely on Severino coming back from injury, or a 20 year old Deivi Garcia who started the season in A ball (as much as we love his future potential).
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  17. #1842
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    Re: 2019 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonn1997 View Post
    The Sonny Gray trade was good. Heís an all star. Giving up on him after one season was the mistake.
    No, trading for Sonny Gray was the mistake.

    He couldn't handle New York and couldn't adjust to pitching in many of the smaller parks in the AL East.

    Of course Cashman would have known Gray was historically pedestrian-to-bad when pitching in YSII, Fenway, Camden Yards and The Trop had he looked at his career splits before trading for him...
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  18. #1843

    Re: 2019 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post
    Stroman simply isn't the TOR-type starter this team has needed for years now. He's another #3-4 type starter when we really need a #1 or #2.

    I also don't like the inconsistency he's displayed throughout his career and his career numbers pitching at YSIII are putrid.

    Additionally, I have deep concerns about how his small 5'7" frame can hold up with time.

    I just don't see much there to get excited about. I'd much rather go for Bauer or MadBum.
    No thanks to MadBum if the Giants want a MadBum in his prime type package.

  19. #1844
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    Re: 2019 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NYYfan4life90 View Post
    No thanks to MadBum if the Giants want a MadBum in his prime type package.
    I agree, but at this point in time, the Giants have zero leverage - heís a free agent in 3 months.

    He can be had for far less than what Stroman will cost and you know he wonít crumble under the pressure of pitching in big post-season games.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  20. #1845

    Re: 2019 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post
    No, trading for Sonny Gray was the mistake.

    He couldn't handle New York and couldn't adjust to pitching in many of the smaller parks in the AL East.

    Of course Cashman would have known Gray was historically pedestrian-to-bad when pitching in YSII, Fenway, Camden Yards and The Trop had he looked at his career splits before trading for him...
    Cherry picked SSS. None of those splits are based on enough innings to be meaningful. I think we're going to have to agree to disagree though. You obviously value small samples (these splits, the 59 innings at Yankees stadium last year) much more than I do, and we're not going to reach an agreement.

  21. #1846

    Re: 2019 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by OdiN9 View Post
    Boone just said on WFAN Luke will probably play a rehab game first before returning. Betances and Sevy should start throwing program after next week. #Yankees



    Also said Cashman will leave no stone unturned and try for a starter. But if they canít get anyone, they feel good about the pitchers they have in the pipeline. So will Deivi Garcia be a good chance this year?
    Bullpen only for Deivi. Not enough innings left in the tank to be a starter nor would they put that kind of pressure on him so soon. But his curveball would be a huge weapon out of the pen as a strikeout pitch.

  22. #1847

    Re: 2019 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dabomb2045 View Post
    What exactly is your solution then?? TOR starters dont exactly grow on trees. Sometimes you have to go after what the best avaliable guys are. This past winter it was Corbin and Morton. Keuchel has his warts but we could have had him for just money on a 1 year deal.
    Now we're stuck looking at guys that have alot of baggage for variety of reasons, whether its effectiveness, age, being unproven or whatever it is. Plus you now have to give up prospects for them.

    Would I rather bite the bullet and go to a 6th year on Corbin then be stuck with the options were looking at now? Absolutely
    Corbin is virtually the same pitcher he was last year plus a juiced ball driving HRs up across the league, but even with that heís brought that down lately and is dominating again. Huge miss by the front office.

    Morton I give them a little leeway on because not many wouldíve projected that by the ASB heíd already be having a career best WAR at the age of 35 especially leaving a pitching friendly Astros organization who didnít even put a qualifying offer out there and finishing the year with the injury struggles and talks of retiring. You may have predicted heíd be a little better than Happ, but youíre lying if you predicted anything like this. Heís on pace to shatter all of his career highs.

  23. #1848
    The Death Star is Sputtering Zimmer's Helmet's Avatar
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    Re: 2019 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonn1997 View Post
    Cherry picked SSS. None of those splits are based on enough innings to be meaningful. I think we're going to have to agree to disagree though. You obviously value small samples (these splits, the 59 innings at Yankees stadium last year) much more than I do, and we're not going to reach an agreement.
    C'mon, I don't believe you're that myopic. There's nothing cherry picked about his career stats in AL East ballparks.

    You don't feel like roughly 50 IP in each AL East ballpark is a sufficient sample size?

    These are his combined career stats pitching in all AL East ballparks. If you still want to argue that the sample size isn't large enough then I'm afraid you're not being open-minded about the fact that you may be wrong:

    IP: 231
    H: 243
    ER: 122
    BB: 99
    SO: 212
    HR: 31
    WHIP: 1.48
    ERA: 4.75
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  24. #1849

    Re: 2019 Trade Deadline Thread

    I know the eye test gets plenty of (well-deserved) mockery around here, but people need to think back and remember what torture it was watching Sonny Gray pitch in a Yankees uniform. I've never seen a pitcher pitch so scared. It seemed like a vicious cycle where every home run he gave up made him that much more of a nibbler, falling behind in counts and getting absolutely punished when he finally had to come over the plate.

    I'm not going to try to psychoanalyze the root cause -- I have no idea if it's about the city, or the stadium, or the expectations of the franchise. I am also really sick and tired of the tired old trope that says every Yankees pitching coach (just like all the managers and most of the third-base coaches) is a moron, but in this case I leave room for the possibility that an organizational decision to tinker with his approach could have been a factor. But whatever the reason, I'm glad Sonny Gray is gone -- he needed to go.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  25. #1850
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    Re: 2019 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BabyBombers View Post
    I know one thing, they better go big and get a 29 year old Cole next year. 8 years $250m at least. Cant let him get away. And with a trade for either Bauer or Stroman this year, that makes a rotation of Severino, Cole, Tanaka, Paxton and Bauer/Stroman in 2020. Thats pretty solid. Montgomery and German as well. I think we can cut Happ if he continues to struggle.
    You couldn't have Bauer and Cole on the same team. Its one or the other.

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