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  1. #1976
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination

    Bernie released his immigration platform.

    He's the only candidate calling for the breaking up of ICE and CBP, putting their functions back with the federal agencies that used to have their powers before they were spun off
    • Deportation, enforcement, border and investigatory authority would return to the Department of Justice.
    • Customs authority would return to the Treasury Department.
    • Naturalization and citizenship authority would be given to the State Department.

    He also calls to improve working conditions and labor protections for industries that rely on an immigrant workforce, including instating a domestic workers’ bill of rights and labor protection.

    Other stuff:
    • Moratorium on deportations
    • Reinstate DACA
    • End for-profit detention
    • Overturn Muslim ban
    • Demilitarization of the border
    • Pathway to citizenship
    • Withhold federal contracts for employers found to be exploiting guest workers
    • End workplace raids
    • Implement measures to protect farm workers

  2. #1977
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination

    Quote Originally Posted by trapper700 View Post
    Bernie released his immigration platform.

    He's the only candidate calling for the breaking up of ICE and CBP, putting their functions back with the federal agencies that used to have their powers before they were spun off
    • Deportation, enforcement, border and investigatory authority would return to the Department of Justice.
    • Customs authority would return to the Treasury Department.
    • Naturalization and citizenship authority would be given to the State Department.

    He also calls to improve working conditions and labor protections for industries that rely on an immigrant workforce, including instating a domestic workers’ bill of rights and labor protection.

    Other stuff:
    • Moratorium on deportations
    • Reinstate DACA
    • End for-profit detention
    • Overturn Muslim ban
    • Demilitarization of the border
    • Pathway to citizenship
    Can he do any of that via executive order because none of that will pass Congress (even though it all should). I imagine the President can allocate what Department houses what services right?

  3. #1978
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlw1980 View Post
    Please, indeed. You're flat out wrong. Boomer.
    Child of scorn.

  4. #1979
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination

    Quote Originally Posted by RhodyYanksFan View Post
    Can he do any of that via executive order because none of that will pass Congress (even though it all should). I imagine the President can allocate what Department houses what services right?
    I'd imagine much of it would need to be done with executive orders, kind of like how Obama was forced to use them with DACA and DAPA because Congress couldn't get anything done with regards to immigration. I don't think he'd be able to abolish ICE strictly through executive orders, though, since it was created as part of the Homeland Security Act. He'd probably be able to control its powers and funding, though, which is what Trump did with his own executive orders.

    Edit:
    It says this on his website:
    Executive Authority
    For decades, presidents and candidates from both parties have promised to enact comprehensive immigration reform. While Bernie will pursue necessary legislative reforms to our immigration system, he will not accept delays from Congress, and will not trade limitless and unaccountable funding for border militarization, detention beds, and deportation forces for a deal that has yet to materialize. Bernie will use the constitutional authority vested in the president to take bold and necessary executive action if Congress fails to enact the commonsense immigration reforms supported by the vast majority of Americans.

  5. #1980
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination

    I feel like Warren naming a Bain Capital partner as a possible cabinet secretary should be a bigger deal than just straight up getting ignored. But I guess that’s because it doesn’t line up with people’s false views of her.

  6. #1981
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination

    Quote Originally Posted by trapper700 View Post
    I feel like Warren naming a Bain Capital partner as a possible cabinet secretary should be a bigger deal than just straight up getting ignored. But I guess that’s because it doesn’t line up with people’s false views of her.
    He was also a 2 term Governor, former civil rights attorney and member of Clinton's administration. It's not like Bain Capital is life sum of his work. That said she was specifically asked to come up with some specific African American names she'd consider so it's hardly surprising his name came up being the former Governor of the same state Warren just happens to be the Senator from.


    Also if comes to forming a cabinet, she may decide at that point Bain Capital is disqualifying and not ask him to serve.
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    the rest is just details.

  7. #1982

    Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Child of scorn.
    Sounds like you.

  8. #1983
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    He was also a 2 term Governor, former civil rights attorney and member of Clinton's administration. It's not like Bain Capital is life sum of his work. That said she was specifically asked to come up with some specific African American names she'd consider so it's hardly surprising his name came up being the former Governor of the same state Warren just happens to be the Senator from.


    Also if comes to forming a cabinet, she may decide at that point Bain Capital is disqualifying and not ask him to serve.
    And yet...

    Told from a different angle, Patrick’s biography isn’t an uplifting rags-to-riches story but an ugly tale of corruption among the American power elite. Patrick didn’t just make a lot of money; he made a lot of money helping a Republican billionaire rip off the black middle class.
    And Patrick was making $360,000 a year working for Ameriquest. He joined the company’s board in 2004, lending his credibility as a former civil rights attorney to both the company’s operations and the public image of its founder. Two months after Patrick vouched for Arnall to the Senate, Ameriquest agreed to pay $325 million to settle predatory lending allegations in 49 states and the District of Columbia.

    When the mortgage business began to implode, Patrick left Ameriquest to run for governor of Massachusetts. Though his corporate background generated plenty of controversy in the primary ― he pointedly refused to release his tax returns during the campaign ― he entered office in 2007 as Ameriquest was collapsing. Patrick called Citigroup executive Robert Rubin to plead for funding to rescue the dying firm, using the weight of the governorship to quite literally call in a favor for a Republican billionaire.
    If so, Patrick’s tenure at Ameriquest raises serious questions about his role at other scandal-plagued corporations. He did some work on the mortgage settlement, and the details that have come to light ― particularly in a book by former Wall Street Journal reporter Michael Hudson ― implicate Patrick in the company’s attempt to wine and dine its way out of liability.
    Patrick’s personal line on government ethics issues has always been aggressive. His decision to work at a company he had investigated for racially discriminatory lending was, even by Washington standards, an audacious turn through the revolving door. But the Ameriquest episode wasn’t the first time he ran that particular routine.

    Under Patrick’s leadership in 1997, the DOJ signed a $176 million settlement with Texaco for racial discrimination against its employees. A year after a court approved the deal, he left the DOJ for a job as Texaco’s top in-house attorney.

    Four years later, he left Texaco for Coca-Cola, which was trying to clean up its image after signing a $192 million racial discrimination settlement ― the largest in history. The pattern was clear: Patrick was the guy you hired if your company needed to look serious about fixing high-profile racism.
    https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5...b066b5cfa49b66

    You can’t claim that she’s going to be tough on businesses and be the best candidate for financial regulation when the first “black friend” name that comes to mind for a cabinet position is a guy who did this stuff.

  9. #1984
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination

    ^I agree he'd likely be a poor cabinet choice.

    Compared to what we have with Trump, I think he'd probably be light years better.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  10. #1985
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    ^I agree he'd likely be a poor cabinet choice.

    Compared to what we have with Trump, I think he'd probably be light years better.
    This.
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  11. #1986
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination

    Yes, the person who: was a director for one of the worst of the worst companies involved in the subprime mortgage crisis that caused the recession in 2008, defended Bain Capital (a company Democrats constantly attacked for symbolizing what’s wrong in America) during Obama’s 2012 reelection campaign, then sold out to work for them after he was done being governor, fought on the side of businesses against labor unions, raised sales taxes that disproportionally hurt the poor more than the well off, and gave $1 billion in tax breaks and subsidies to pharmaceutical companies, is “light years” better than the current cabinet members because he has a (D) by his name.

  12. #1987
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination

    Quote Originally Posted by trapper700 View Post
    Yes, the person who: was a director for one of the worst of the worst companies involved in the subprime mortgage crisis that caused the recession in 2008, defended Bain Capital (a company Democrats constantly attacked for symbolizing what’s wrong in America) during Obama’s 2012 reelection campaign, then sold out to work for them after he was done being governor, fought on the side of businesses against labor unions, raised sales taxes that disproportionally hurt the poor more than the well off, and gave $1 billion in tax breaks and subsidies to pharmaceutical companies, is “light years” better than the current cabinet members because he has a (D) by his name.
    No one is saying we don't want things to improve with many, if not all, of the points you are raising to change.

    But not voting for a very left candidate only takes y9ou further away from that happening.
    Bring tea for the Tillerman; Steak for the son; Wine for the woman
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  13. #1988
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination

    Quote Originally Posted by trapper700 View Post
    Yes, the person who: was a director for one of the worst of the worst companies involved in the subprime mortgage crisis that caused the recession in 2008, defended Bain Capital (a company Democrats constantly attacked for symbolizing what’s wrong in America) during Obama’s 2012 reelection campaign, then sold out to work for them after he was done being governor, fought on the side of businesses against labor unions, raised sales taxes that disproportionally hurt the poor more than the well off, and gave $1 billion in tax breaks and subsidies to pharmaceutical companies, is “light years” better than the current cabinet members because he has a (D) by his name.
    Got it.
    You’re first choice is Bernie.
    You’re second choice is Trump.
    Forgive me if I don’t share your joy at option #2.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  14. #1989
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination

    Quote Originally Posted by ajra21 View Post
    But not voting for a very left candidate only takes y9ou further away from that happening.
    This isn’t even about that. This is still a competition to determine who should move forward to the general election against Trump, isn’t it? Why settle for a candidate who would choose someone like Deval Patrick to be in their cabinet when there’s a better candidate who wouldn’t?

    We’re not even at the point where people are forced to choose “the lesser of two evils” yet, and for some reason it feels people already are settling for lesser candidates despite claiming that they are progressives themselves. (Warren isn’t “very left” or progressive at all, especially if you look at her use of means testing, her foreign policy and her support of the military industrial complex.)

  15. #1990
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Got it.
    You’re first choice is Bernie.
    You’re second choice is Trump.
    Forgive me if I don’t share your joy at option #2.
    In your eyes, all the candidates are the same. They’re not Trump, and that’s good enough for you. Well, I’m saying that it shouldn’t be and isn’t enough for me.

    It’s funny that pretty much all of these people who repeat “vote blue no matter who” ad nauseum are supporters of neoliberal candidates and still likely blame Bernie supporters for Hillary’s loss in 2016. If y’all are that worried about Bernie or Bust voters sitting out “again” or voting third party “again” thereby causing a Trump reelection, maybe you should vote to nominate Bernie instead. You’re all going to vote Democrat no matter who’s nominated anyway, right? Is it because Bernie “is not even a Democrat?” Or is it because “vote blue no matter who” is just code for “fall in line and vote for my crappy centralist candidate?”

    Why is it always the leftists who have to throw away their convictions and morals when it’s the candidates’ jobs to convince us to vote for them? Isn’t that the whole purpose of campaigning? And let me tell you that naming a ghoul like Deval as a possible cabinet member definitely isn’t convincing me to vote for Warren.

  16. #1991
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination

    Quote Originally Posted by trapper700 View Post
    In your eyes, all the candidates are the same. They’re not Trump, and that’s good enough for you. Well, I’m saying that it shouldn’t be and isn’t enough for me.

    It’s funny that pretty much all of these people who repeat “vote blue no matter who” ad nauseum are supporters of neoliberal candidates and still likely blame Bernie supporters for Hillary’s loss in 2016. If y’all are that worried about Bernie or Bust voters sitting out “again” or voting third party “again” thereby causing a Trump reelection, maybe you should vote to nominate Bernie instead. You’re all going to vote Democrat no matter who’s nominated anyway, right? Is it because Bernie “is not even a Democrat?” Or is it because “vote blue no matter who” is just code for “fall in line and vote for my crappy centralist candidate?”

    Why is it always the leftists who have to throw away their convictions and morals when it’s the candidates’ jobs to convince us to vote for them? Isn’t that the whole purpose of campaigning? And let me tell you that naming a ghoul like Deval as a possible cabinet member definitely isn’t convincing me to vote for Warren.
    No, in your eyes all the candidates not named Bernie are the same. You don't care if it's Warren or Trump. You've made that clear.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
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  17. #1992
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    No, in your eyes all the candidates not named Bernie are the same. You don't care if it's Warren or Trump. You've made that clear.
    Yes, they’re all happy with the status quo and keeping the establishment in power and supporting the whims of the white liberal elite instead of the working class.

    I’ve made this point before but y’all just ignored it and instead of trying to debate or tell me why I’m wrong or why I should be supporting any of the other candidates, can only respond with “not Trump” because that’s all your poisoned brains can think about.

    Edit: And to be clear, I think that Warren would be a much better president than Trump. It's just that I feel like choosing a milquetoast establishment Dem will just ensure that we'll be getting a competent fascist in 2024 instead of a bumbling fascist like Trump. You all might think that Trump is the worst president ever, but I think W. Bush + Cheney was worse because they actually got their terrible agenda done, especially abroad.

  18. #1993
    Quote Originally Posted by trapper700 View Post
    support of the military industrial complex.)
    Ahem...

    “Antiwar candidate Bernie Sanders faces backlash over the $1.2 trillion war machine he brought to Vermont”

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/10/bernie-sanders-faces-backlash-over-war-machine-he-brought-to-vermont.html

  19. #1994
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlanders#1 View Post
    Ahem...

    “Antiwar candidate Bernie Sanders faces backlash over the $1.2 trillion war machine he brought to Vermont”

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/10/bern...o-vermont.html
    I never said that Bernie was a perfect candidate, either. If you're looking for stuff that I disagree with him on, I dislike his support for the F-35. I hate how he voted for the provisions in SESTA/FOSTA and didn't do more to protect sex workers. I also don't like his moratorium on nuclear power for his Green New Deal (although, I'm also not sure how much I trust our current energy infrastructure with nuclear), with I think Biden having a better stance on nuclear energy than Bernie.

    He also addressed this concern in a town hall back in 2014, stating that it wasn't the plane that he supported, but the jobs and revenue that it brings to Vermont: "In the real world, if the plane is built... and if the choice is that it goes to Vermont, South Carolina or Florida, what is your choice as a United States Senator? Do you want it to go to South Carolina? My view is that given the reality of the damn plane, I'd rather it come to Vermont than to South Carolina. And that's what the Vermont National Guard wants, and that means hundreds of jobs in my city. That's it."

    Contrast this with how Warren voted with Republicans for the bill that gave Trump and the Pentagon a defense budget bigger than what he requested for back in 2017 (thankfully, she voted against the defense budget earlier this year). How she "fought to secure additional funding to support Massachusetts' military objectives and advance military research, including funding military construction projects." How she regularly used to meet with defense contractors like Raytheon and General Dynamics back home in Massachusetts when she couldn't even meet with "her fellow" Native Americans when they were protesting the DAPL being built on their sacred lands. How she thinks that military readiness is still a priority today despite their effects on the environment and instead of dismantling these bases she wants to give them additional funding to make the military more green.

  20. #1995

    Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination

    Quote Originally Posted by trapper700 View Post
    Yes, they’re all happy with the status quo and keeping the establishment in power and supporting the whims of the white liberal elite instead of the working class.

    I’ve made this point before but y’all just ignored it and instead of trying to debate or tell me why I’m wrong or why I should be supporting any of the other candidates, can only respond with “not Trump” because that’s all your poisoned brains can think about.

    Edit: And to be clear, I think that Warren would be a much better president than Trump. It's just that I feel like choosing a milquetoast establishment Dem will just ensure that we'll be getting a competent fascist in 2024 instead of a bumbling fascist like Trump. You all might think that Trump is the worst president ever, but I think W. Bush + Cheney was worse because they actually got their terrible agenda done, especially abroad.
    Keep thinking that Trump didn't get much of his agenda done either domestically or abroad. His negative effect on our court systems will be with us for decades and his abroad influence will hurt us for years to come.
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  21. #1996
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trapper700 View Post
    Yes, they’re all happy with the status quo and keeping the establishment in power and supporting the whims of the white liberal elite instead of the working class.

    I’ve made this point before but y’all just ignored it and instead of trying to debate or tell me why I’m wrong or why I should be supporting any of the other candidates, can only respond with “not Trump” because that’s all your poisoned brains can think about.

    Edit: And to be clear, I think that Warren would be a much better president than Trump. It's just that I feel like choosing a milquetoast establishment Dem will just ensure that we'll be getting a competent fascist in 2024 instead of a bumbling fascist like Trump. You all might think that Trump is the worst president ever, but I think W. Bush + Cheney was worse because they actually got their terrible agenda done, especially abroad.
    No, Bush/Cheney were not worse.

    And, believe it or not, I share your fears about a centrist Democrat, which Warren is not. But I live in the real world, unlike you. If you mean that my mind has been poisoned in the Buddhist sense, I’ll agree. If you mean that I don’t know that rich capitalists control things, all I can say is that you should take your head out of a book once in a while. We're not idiots. I think the reason we haven’t bothered debating your points is that you already have fixed conclusions, and your mind is closed. Closed, I might add, at a place where most of us find it useless to engage.
    Last edited by JL25and3; 11-10-19 at 10:24 AM.

  22. #1997
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination

    Quote Originally Posted by trapper700 View Post
    This isn’t even about that. This is still a competition to determine who should move forward to the general election against Trump, isn’t it? Why settle for a candidate who would choose someone like Deval Patrick to be in their cabinet when there’s a better candidate who wouldn’t?

    We’re not even at the point where people are forced to choose “the lesser of two evils” yet, and for some reason it feels people already are settling for lesser candidates despite claiming that they are progressives themselves. (Warren isn’t “very left” or progressive at all, especially if you look at her use of means testing, her foreign policy and her support of the military industrial complex.)
    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    No, in your eyes all the candidates not named Bernie are the same. You don't care if it's Warren or Trump. You've made that clear.
    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    No, Bush/Cheney were not worse.

    And, believe it or not, I share your fears about a centrist Democrat, which Warren is not. But I live in the real world, unlike you. If you mean that my mind has been poisoned in the ?Buddhist sense, I’ll agree. If you mean that I don’t know that rich capitalists control things, all I can say is that you should take your head out of a book once in a while. We're not idiots. I think the reason we haven’t bothered debating your points is that you already have fixed conclusions, and your mind is closed. Closed, I might add, at a place that most of us find to useless to engage at.
    John, you said everything I was gonna say.
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  23. #1998
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    Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination

    Quote Originally Posted by trapper700 View Post
    In your eyes, all the candidates are the same. They’re not Trump, and that’s good enough for you. Well, I’m saying that it shouldn’t be and isn’t enough for me.

    It’s funny that pretty much all of these people who repeat “vote blue no matter who” ad nauseum are supporters of neoliberal candidates and still likely blame Bernie supporters for Hillary’s loss in 2016. If y’all are that worried about Bernie or Bust voters sitting out “again” or voting third party “again” thereby causing a Trump reelection, maybe you should vote to nominate Bernie instead. You’re all going to vote Democrat no matter who’s nominated anyway, right? Is it because Bernie “is not even a Democrat?” Or is it because “vote blue no matter who” is just code for “fall in line and vote for my crappy centralist candidate?”

    Why is it always the leftists who have to throw away their convictions and morals when it’s the candidates’ jobs to convince us to vote for them? Isn’t that the whole purpose of campaigning? And let me tell you that naming a ghoul like Deval as a possible cabinet member definitely isn’t convincing me to vote for Warren.
    Convince enough people in the primary to support your candidate, I’m all for that.
    But if you’re guy doesn’t win, I’m saying going for the better of two choices in the general is always a good idea, even if the #2 doesn’t match up with you 100%.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  24. #1999

    Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    Keep thinking that Trump didn't get much of his agenda done either domestically or abroad. His negative effect on our court systems will be with us for decades and his abroad influence will hurt us for years to come.
    Yeah, the court system is a nightmare that's just beginning. It's terrifying.

  25. #2000

    Re: 2020 Democratic Nomination

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    No, Bush/Cheney were not worse.
    I'm curious how folks come to this conclusion. I agree for the most part, but they were really bad.

    I think in some ways they were; others they weren't. They inflicted more damage abroad, resulting in hundreds of thousands of innocents dying. Their effect on the court system was less extreme, shockingly.

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