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  1. #76
    New Murderer's Row False1's Avatar
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    Re: 2019 Mike Tauchman performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ojo View Post
    MLB GMs are aware there are a few dozen Tauchmans waiting to be lifted from AAAA though. That suppresses his value until he steps out of that cloud.
    Yet you indicated he should be traded for a MOR arm with upside. This is kind of what I'm saying... I think he has value to this team, but not much trade value, yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I think Tauchman is a good fifth outfielder playing a bit better than that right now. That means I think trading him at the value of a fourth outfielder is trading high.

    Yes, heís shown some flashes. I donít think that changes my perception that heís basically a known quantity at age 28 (The AAA stats were mostly in an extravagant hitting environment. In 2018 his entire team hit .285/.347/.469, and previous years werenít far off.)
    What's the value of a 4OF in a trade? I caveated the AAA stats from the PCL, but he also has an .891 OPS at SWB this year. And the defense and speed play anywhere.

    I'm not trying to say he shouldn't be traded at all, I'm just saying that you can't really "sell high" on his type. He's more valuable to this particular team at this particular time than what he'd bring back in a trade. I'd like to see them keep him and use his low salary next year to free up $$ for other necessary improvements.

  2. #77
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Yet you indicated he should be traded for a MOR arm with upside. This is kind of what I'm saying... I think he has value to this team, but not much trade value, yet.

    What's the value of a 4OF in a trade? I caveated the AAA stats from the PCL, but he also has an .891 OPS at SWB this year. And the defense and speed play anywhere.

    I'm not trying to say he shouldn't be traded at all, I'm just saying that you can't really "sell high" on his type. He's more valuable to this particular team at this particular time than what he'd bring back in a trade. I'd like to see them keep him and use his low salary next year to free up $$ for other necessary improvements.
    I think weíre saying much the same thing in terms of hisvtrade value: if he contributes any value to a package, itís more than expected. As for useful to the team, perhaps, but it will be as a fifth rather than a fourth outfielder. I like Maybin, but if you want a lefty and think Maybin will leave...it doesnít matter that much.

    As for freeing up money, thatís not a principle I accept with the Yankees, particularly since a fifth outfielder is cheap by definition.

  3. #78

    Re: 2019 Mike Tauchman performance thread

    Last 100 ABs: .280 BA, .798 OPS while playing above average defense. I kinda like this guy.

  4. #79

    Re: 2019 Mike Tauchman performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Slickman View Post
    Last 100 ABs: .280 BA, .798 OPS while playing above average defense. I kinda like this guy.
    OK but not the best cutoff point. His season OPS is well over .800. Maybe the Yankees knew what they were doing when they sent Frazier down for him!

  5. #80
    time of my life ... ajra21's Avatar
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    Re: 2019 Mike Tauchman performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    I disagree. I would think he has limited trade value. Probably "throw in" category. Yet he already looks like at a minimum a really good 4OF option, with upside, that will save the Yankees ~$8MM in payroll if they wisely let Gardner go after this season. He's also depth that allows them to be more aggressive with dangling Frazier. That has a lot more value to the Yankees than his trade value IMHO.

    What would a "sell high" deal on Tauchman look like to you?
    Still think they just want Frazier to play every day.
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  6. #81
    New Murderer's Row False1's Avatar
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    Re: 2019 Mike Tauchman performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I think we’re saying much the same thing in terms of hisvtrade value: if he contributes any value to a package, it’s more than expected. As for useful to the team, perhaps, but it will be as a fifth rather than a fourth outfielder. I like Maybin, but if you want a lefty and think Maybin will leave...it doesn’t matter that much.

    As for freeing up money, that’s not a principle I accept with the Yankees, particularly since a fifth outfielder is cheap by definition.
    Hard to debate without hypothetical scenarios for context, but I don't think I'm saying that. I think as of now he probably has "throw in" value. If it takes a few "throw ins" to acquire an elite SP, so be it - but he has more value to this team going forward than as a throw in for a non-elite starter.

    You may not accept the cost as a principle, but the reality is the people holding the purse strings do. And on this team with Hicks, Stanton, Judge and even Frazier all having injury concerns this year and beyond, 5OF becomes 4OF becomes starter. This team should never be Shane-Robinsoned again in a playoff race. If they trade Frazier he moves up in the depth chart as well.

  7. #82
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    Re: 2019 Mike Tauchman performance thread

    Don't know what to make of Tauchman. His defensive skills are real since he's been consistent in the field. When he first arrived though he was often swinging through dinner plate fastballs. Now he's in a groove and showing good plate discipline. Either we were all wrong about him or he's just locked in for an extended but limited period. Also haven't seen the opposition adjust to find his weaknesses. I think the jury will be out a very long time here.
    Let the kids play.

  8. #83
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Hard to debate without hypothetical scenarios for context, but I don't think I'm saying that. I think as of now he probably has "throw in" value. If it takes a few "throw ins" to acquire an elite SP, so be it - but he has more value to this team going forward than as a throw in for a non-elite starter.

    You may not accept the cost as a principle, but the reality is the people holding the purse strings do. And on this team with Hicks, Stanton, Judge and even Frazier all having injury concerns this year and beyond, 5OF becomes 4OF becomes starter. This team should never be Shane-Robinsoned again in a playoff race. If they trade Frazier he moves up in the depth chart as well.
    Fifth outfielder is, to me, his actual role, regardless of the depth chart or injuries. Like Ronald Torreyes is a utility infielder even if he has to play every day.

    We agree that his trade value should be as a throw-in. My point is that if they get any more value than that, itís selling high. However, we disagree as to his actual value to the team (as opposed to his immediate value with Stanton out). Better than Shane Robinson, but Iím not convinced heís better than that.

  9. #84
    New Murderer's Row False1's Avatar
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    Re: 2019 Mike Tauchman performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bub View Post
    Don't know what to make of Tauchman. His defensive skills are real since he's been consistent in the field. When he first arrived though he was often swinging through dinner plate fastballs. Now he's in a groove and showing good plate discipline. Either we were all wrong about him or he's just locked in for an extended but limited period. Also haven't seen the opposition adjust to find his weaknesses. I think the jury will be out a very long time here.
    Plate discipline and defense have always been his bread and butter, throughout his mL career. He sees a ton of pitches; his 4.46 P/PA would place him tied for 2nd (with Matt Carpenter, behind Rhys Hoskins) in all of MLB this year. He added some pop in the last few years, and his current ML production and numbers at SWB indicate that the increased power wasn't just a mirage from his time in the PCL.

    This reminds me a little of some of the debate around Garnder's abilities when he first arrived. Agreed though, way too early to declare one way or the other but if he sustains a line even similar to what he's putting up right now it wouldn't be shocking given his mL track record.

  10. #85
    New Murderer's Row False1's Avatar
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    Re: 2019 Mike Tauchman performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Fifth outfielder is, to me, his actual role, regardless of the depth chart or injuries. Like Ronald Torreyes is a utility infielder even if he has to play every day.

    We agree that his trade value should be as a throw-in. My point is that if they get any more value than that, itís selling high. However, we disagree as to his actual value to the team (as opposed to his immediate value with Stanton out). Better than Shane Robinson, but Iím not convinced heís better than that.
    Well, I guess your first sentence lays out the driver for our debate. Tauchman has talents and a ceiling that exceed 5OF. His floor may be Toe-like, given his versatility in the OF and exceptional defense and good baserunning. But Toe was always going to be a liability at the plate. Tauchman can draw walks and hit for some power. If he cuts down on the strikeouts at this level, he can become a strong contributor offensively as well. I think his ceiling is much higher than you do, but even if he never reaches it he still has value to this club, at this time.

  11. #86

    Re: 2019 Mike Tauchman performance thread

    OK but whatís his ceiling? If he keeps up his current production (not saying he will but weíre talking about ceiling), heís at almost 7 WAR per 600 plate appearances (BBRef stats). Iíd be thrilled with half that. It would make him better than most teamís #2 outfielders.

  12. #87
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    Re: 2019 Mike Tauchman performance thread

    I want to see this guy play 4 or 5 times a week to see if he can sustain the success he's having. I've looked at his career ml stats - seems like he's always hit for average, but all of a sudden in 2017 (AAA-PCL) he started hitting HRs. I like a hitter that makes adjustments.

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...d=tauchm000mic
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  13. #88
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2019 Mike Tauchman performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    I want to see this guy play 4 or 5 times a week to see if he can sustain the success he's having. I've looked at his career ml stats - seems like he's always hit for average, but all of a sudden in 2017 (AAA-PCL) he started hitting HRs. I like a hitter that makes adjustments.

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...d=tauchm000mic
    I do think those Abuquerque stats need to be discounted a little. Not thrown out, just put in context.
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  14. #89
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    Re: 2019 Mike Tauchman performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I do think those Abuquerque stats need to be discounted a little. Not thrown out, just put in context.
    Well I'd agree - but he's hitting a few bombs with limited ABs with the Yanks. I think he's found something.
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  15. #90
    New Murderer's Row False1's Avatar
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    Re: 2019 Mike Tauchman performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I do think those Abuquerque stats need to be discounted a little. Not thrown out, just put in context.
    Sure. But there's context from SWB (.231 isop) and NYY (.209 isop) as well.

    Another big game tonight in the power and plate discipline departments.

  16. #91

    Re: 2019 Mike Tauchman performance thread

    the fangraphs article from february goes into detail about his different approach to power
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  17. #92

    Re: 2019 Mike Tauchman performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    I want to see this guy play 4 or 5 times a week to see if he can sustain the success he's having. I've looked at his career ml stats - seems like he's always hit for average, but all of a sudden in 2017 (AAA-PCL) he started hitting HRs. I like a hitter that makes adjustments.

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...d=tauchm000mic
    Weíre using a small sample but I doubt 150 plate appearances spread out over four months are any less reliable than spread out over one month. If there are data on this issue, I could be corrected. If anything, you could say itís a lot harder to play just once or twice a week though.

  18. #93
    Administrator Bub's Avatar
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    Re: 2019 Mike Tauchman performance thread

    Maybin is probably back in about a week. Do we keep Tauchman here or send down a reliever?
    Let the kids play.

  19. #94

    Re: 2019 Mike Tauchman performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bub View Post
    Maybin is probably back in about a week. Do we keep Tauchman here or send down a reliever?
    Since the team is unwilling to make full use of the bullpen, it wouldn't make sense to send a contributing piece--Tauchman--instead of an unneeded arm in the pen. Plus, give me Tauchman over Holder any day. One contributes to winning, and the other contributes to losing.

  20. #95
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    Re: 2019 Mike Tauchman performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    I want to see this guy play 4 or 5 times a week to see if he can sustain the success he's having. I've looked at his career ml stats - seems like he's always hit for average, but all of a sudden in 2017 (AAA-PCL) he started hitting HRs. I like a hitter that makes adjustments.

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...d=tauchm000mic
    There was an article somewhere when the Yankees got him back in March, that he changed his entire approach at the plate. He worked with someone who "fixed" his swing. He always had solid plate discipline, and the adjusted swing added power to his resume.

    Tauchman, like Urshela, might be real.

  21. #96

    Re: 2019 Mike Tauchman performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mbn007 View Post
    There was an article somewhere when the Yankees got him back in March, that he changed his entire approach at the plate. He worked with someone who "fixed" his swing. He always had solid plate discipline, and the adjusted swing added power to his resume.

    Tauchman, like Urshela, might be real.
    He sure seems to be. I want to keep him around.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  22. #97
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    Re: 2019 Mike Tauchman performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by albo4lyfe View Post
    Since the team is unwilling to make full use of the bullpen, it wouldn't make sense to send a contributing piece--Tauchman--instead of an unneeded arm in the pen. Plus, give me Tauchman over Holder any day. One contributes to winning, and the other contributes to losing.

    Maybin and Tauchman are redundant from a roster perspective barring an injury. If you have 5 OFs, somebody isn't gonna play much at all (which is fine for a pinch runner/super utility guy, but people want to keep him here because he might have more batting value than that).

    I think he's probably getting sent down, just from that perspective (as Maybin cant be sent down)

  23. #98

    Re: 2019 Mike Tauchman performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jace View Post
    Maybin and Tauchman are redundant from a roster perspective barring an injury. If you have 5 OFs, somebody isn't gonna play much at all (which is fine for a pinch runner/super utility guy, but people want to keep him here because he might have more batting value than that).

    I think he's probably getting sent down, just from that perspective (as Maybin cant be sent down)
    I agree that he'll get sent down for Maybin because he has options, unless of course trades shake up the roster in some relevant way, or (perhaps) they decide to IL Gardner and keep them both around.

    As for the Maybin redundancy, I also agree (I think this is what you are saying?) that Maybin's speed makes him a better 5th outfielder on a playoff roster.

    That said, under the current circumstances with Stanton hurt, if it weren't for roster considerations I would prefer Tauchman over Maybin as the 4th outfielder (or 3rd if Gardner stays hurt).
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  24. #99

    Re: 2019 Mike Tauchman performance thread

    Since his rock bottom of .167 on May 5th vs Minn, he's been hitting .387 with a 1.094 OPS. Count me in as a fan.

  25. #100

    Re: 2019 Mike Tauchman performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jace View Post
    Maybin and Tauchman are redundant from a roster perspective barring an injury. If you have 5 OFs, somebody isn't gonna play much at all (which is fine for a pinch runner/super utility guy, but people want to keep him here because he might have more batting value than that).

    I think he's probably getting sent down, just from that perspective (as Maybin cant be sent down)
    You canít send Tauchman down now. That would be insane. 5 players for 4 positions (DH) sounds OK.

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