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  1. #51
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    Re: 2019 Gary Sanchez performance thread

    Look, he made it back to the bag, he just fell off. Or more likely that 3rd Baseman dude pushed him off. I'll give Gary a pass on that one.
    Just win!

  2. #52
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    Re: 2019 Gary Sanchez performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    Posada was a poor baserunner, but I'm not recalling anything quite this bad. Making poor decisions while running the bases is different from getting caught sleeping or falling unathletically off the back side of the base like Sanchez.
    Is it really worse? Thinking you are twice as fast (or less slow) than you are and getting thrown out by two steps is worse in my book than a momentary concentration lapse.
    "Deep to left! Yastrzemski will not get it! It's a home run! A three-run homer by Bucky Dent! And the Yankees now lead by a score of 3-2!" - New York Yankees announcer Bill White (October 2, 1978)

  3. #53
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    Re: 2019 Gary Sanchez performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by theDurk View Post
    Is it really worse? Thinking you are twice as fast (or less slow) than you are and getting thrown out by two steps is worse in my book than a momentary concentration lapse.
    Being thrown out as you run the bases is at least a baseball play where effort was involved. IMO, being thrown out because your mind wandered is demonstrably worse. YMMV.
    "Be a voice, not an echo." - Albert Einstein

  4. #54
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    Re: 2019 Gary Sanchez performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ojo View Post
    Being thrown out as you run the bases is at least a baseball play where effort was involved. IMO, being thrown out because your mind wandered is demonstrably worse. YMMV.
    ...if you can call Posada running 'effort', I don't think we will ever agree on this. Add that he made the same mistake in judgment repeatedly for years, I respectfully continue to disagree.
    "Deep to left! Yastrzemski will not get it! It's a home run! A three-run homer by Bucky Dent! And the Yankees now lead by a score of 3-2!" - New York Yankees announcer Bill White (October 2, 1978)

  5. #55
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    Re: 2019 Gary Sanchez performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by theDurk View Post
    ...if you can call Posada running 'effort', I don't think we will ever agree on this. Add that he made the same mistake in judgment repeatedly for years, I respectfully continue to disagree.
    My point is they’re not analogous at all. On the one hand you have a guy stretching doubles into triples, and the other you have a guy whose mind wanders while standing still during a stoppage of play.
    "Be a voice, not an echo." - Albert Einstein

  6. #56

    Re: 2019 Gary Sanchez performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    Look, he made it back to the bag, he just fell off. Or more likely that 3rd Baseman dude pushed him off. I'll give Gary a pass on that one.
    I had a similar thought when the play happened. Which led directly to my next thought, which is that he wouldn't have been out had he just slid. Again to me that's an effort / hustle thing. He figured he could get back without hitting the deck and he ended up in an awkward position and fell over (pushed or not).
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  7. #57
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    Re: 2019 Gary Sanchez performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ojo View Post
    My point is they’re not analogous at all. On the one hand you have a guy stretching doubles into triples, and the other you have a guy whose mind wanders while standing still during a stoppage of play.
    So now it's not "quite this bad", it's "not analogous."
    "Deep to left! Yastrzemski will not get it! It's a home run! A three-run homer by Bucky Dent! And the Yankees now lead by a score of 3-2!" - New York Yankees announcer Bill White (October 2, 1978)

  8. #58

    Re: 2019 Gary Sanchez performance thread

    The guy's a blockhead but he's our blockhead. His receiving behind the plate has been much better so far and I'm not worried about his throwing.

  9. #59
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    Re: 2019 Gary Sanchez performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by theDurk View Post
    So now it's not "quite this bad", it's "not analogous."
    Your attempts at perspective are fleeting at best. But something tells me you’re trying to engage in some type of game.

    Knock yourself out.
    "Be a voice, not an echo." - Albert Einstein

  10. #60
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theDurk View Post
    ...if you can call Posada running 'effort', I don't think we will ever agree on this. Add that he made the same mistake in judgment repeatedly for years, I respectfully continue to disagree.
    I agree, Posada was the worst baserunner I’ve ever seen. Really slow guys usually know that they shouldn’t try for the extra base. This was Posada:

    Bullwinkle: Hey, Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat.
    Rocky: But that trick never works.
    Bullwinkle: This time for sure!

  11. #61

    Re: 2019 Gary Sanchez performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by theDurk View Post
    So now it's not "quite this bad", it's "not analogous."
    What's your bigger point? Posada is retired. I'm not sure exactly why you want to debate Sanchez vs. Posada, but to me it's obvious that Posada had his head in the game at all times. It's unfair, IMHO, to compare his occasional baserunning blunders (which I think are blown out of proportion) to the much more frequent mental errors and lack of hustle shown by Sanchez.

    Posada played his heart out and, as far as I could tell, got the most out of his ability. He is, deservedly, just one rung short of a HOF career. Despite his superior raw talent, Sanchez acts entitled, like a guy who thinks he's better than he actually is, and he coasts. Obviously I'm not watching the guy up close every day, but I think there is ample reason to believe his focus and work ethic are not up to the standard set by Posada and his teammates. Frankly I don't think it's a lock that Sanchez will have even half the career Posada had, even though he obviously has the tools to surpass him.

    Always happy to be proven wrong, of course.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  12. #62
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    Re: 2019 Gary Sanchez performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    What's your bigger point? Posada is retired. I'm not sure exactly why you want to debate Sanchez vs. Posada, but to me it's obvious that Posada had his head in the game at all times. It's unfair, IMHO, to compare his occasional baserunning blunders (which I think are blown out of proportion) to the much more frequent mental errors and lack of hustle shown by Sanchez.

    Posada played his heart out and, as far as I could tell, got the most out of his ability. He is, deservedly, just one rung short of a HOF career. Despite his superior raw talent, Sanchez acts entitled, like a guy who thinks he's better than he actually is, and he coasts. Obviously I'm not watching the guy up close every day, but I think there is ample reason to believe his focus and work ethic are not up to the standard set by Posada and his teammates. Frankly I don't think it's a lock that Sanchez will have even half the career Posada had, even though he obviously has the tools to surpass him.

    Always happy to be proven wrong, of course.
    I wasn't comparing the players, but I do think the criticism of that particular play is overblown. My original post was meant to be more humorous that substantive, but since you two decided to debate it seriously, I am just defending my characterization of Jorge as the worst long-term baserunner in Yankee history. I agree Gary has an attention problem and an attitude problem. He may be deficient compared to Jorge in every way, except there is no way he will ever be a worse baserunner. That's all, no game.
    "Deep to left! Yastrzemski will not get it! It's a home run! A three-run homer by Bucky Dent! And the Yankees now lead by a score of 3-2!" - New York Yankees announcer Bill White (October 2, 1978)

  13. #63

    Re: 2019 Gary Sanchez performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by theDurk View Post
    I wasn't comparing the players, but I do think the criticism of that particular play is overblown. My original post was meant to be more humorous that substantive, but since you two decided to debate it seriously, I am just defending my characterization of Jorge as the worst long-term baserunner in Yankee history. I agree Gary has an attention problem and an attitude problem. He may be deficient compared to Jorge in every way, except there is no way he will ever be a worse baserunner. That's all, no game.
    OK. I'm happy to ratchet this down from "debate" to "discussion" ...

    I watched Posada's entire career, just about every game and certainly every postseason game he ever played. For all of his legendary bad baserunning, I cannot think of a single play, ever, that was memorable for its impact in a key game situation. Chuck Knoblauch's bonehead play in the 1998 ALCS will live on forever, as will Mo's unfortunate throw into CF in Game 7 of the 2001 World Series. But Posada? If you can point to a single game -- bonus points for a postseason game -- in which his baserunning cost the Yankees dearly, I would love to know about it.

    Sanchez's postseason career is still pretty short, and yet there have already been a few examples (notably in the 2017 ALCS; if I recall, his 2018 postseason was better) when mistakes such as passed balls or not covering home plate properly made a difference.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  14. #64
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    Re: 2019 Gary Sanchez performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    OK. I'm happy to ratchet this down from "debate" to "discussion" ...

    I watched Posada's entire career, just about every game and certainly every postseason game he ever played. For all of his legendary bad baserunning, I cannot think of a single play, ever, that was memorable for its impact in a key game situation. Chuck Knoblauch's bonehead play in the 1998 ALCS will live on forever, as will Mo's unfortunate throw into CF in Game 7 of the 2001 World Series. But Posada? If you can point to a single game -- bonus points for a postseason game -- in which his baserunning cost the Yankees dearly, I would love to know about it.

    Sanchez's postseason career is still pretty short, and yet there have already been a few examples (notably in the 2017 ALCS; if I recall, his 2018 postseason was better) when mistakes such as passed balls or not covering home plate properly made a difference.
    Well, not that I argued anything to the contrary, but I will concede you are right there. Jorge's lapses were head-scratchers, as in how could somebody that good be that stupid? The play in question here was in a game we won, so the cost is no real factor as far as that goes. As to the rest, I have already said I agree Gary has a problem in general.

    He has shown an ability to buckle down when he wants to; it's just that he can't seem to sustain it. I honestly don't know if he can or cannot get past this. I think it is possible, but he is running out of time to achieve this. I won't say I am optimistic, but I do retain some hope. Time will tell. He is much better at avoiding passed balls this year, so far, so there is that.

    As to your other point, the most a baserunning error can cost you is an out. You never really know what that means. You can't compare that to a mistake that let in a winning run.
    "Deep to left! Yastrzemski will not get it! It's a home run! A three-run homer by Bucky Dent! And the Yankees now lead by a score of 3-2!" - New York Yankees announcer Bill White (October 2, 1978)

  15. #65

    Re: 2019 Gary Sanchez performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    What's your bigger point? Posada is retired. I'm not sure exactly why you want to debate Sanchez vs. Posada, but to me it's obvious that Posada had his head in the game at all times. It's unfair, IMHO, to compare his occasional baserunning blunders (which I think are blown out of proportion) to the much more frequent mental errors and lack of hustle shown by Sanchez.

    Posada played his heart out and, as far as I could tell, got the most out of his ability. He is, deservedly, just one rung short of a HOF career. Despite his superior raw talent, Sanchez acts entitled, like a guy who thinks he's better than he actually is, and he coasts. Obviously I'm not watching the guy up close every day, but I think there is ample reason to believe his focus and work ethic are not up to the standard set by Posada and his teammates. Frankly I don't think it's a lock that Sanchez will have even half the career Posada had, even though he obviously has the tools to surpass him.

    Always happy to be proven wrong, of course.
    I don’t get that impression that Sanchez feels entitled, he actually seems like someone that is sensitive to the criticism and really wants to make big game changing plays to “make up” for his miscues but tries too hard sometimes. He really needs to get a streak going where he can just roll with some positive momentum and get past all the negativity that surrounds him. I actually wonder if he’d do a lot better in a market like Minnesota, but if the Yankees can get him going and quiet the noise he can be a real force

  16. #66

    Re: 2019 Gary Sanchez performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by theDurk View Post
    As to your other point, the most a baserunning error can cost you is an out. You never really know what that means. You can't compare that to a mistake that let in a winning run.
    To bring this full circle to one of Posada's very best games in a Yankee uniform, I'm sure A's fans think Jeremy Giambi's baserunning cost them the entire 2001 ALDS.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  17. #67
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    Re: 2019 Gary Sanchez performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    To bring this full circle to one of Posada's very best games in a Yankee uniform, I'm sure A's fans think Jeremy Giambi's baserunning cost them the entire 2001 ALDS.
    "Jeremy Giambi's Lament"

    My brother has more talent,
    but that's OK by me.
    I'm pretty good myself, you know:
    just check my OBP.
    Really, I don't mind at all
    that my brother is the stud
    But damn! we'd both have rings right now
    If only I had slud.
    http://www.espn.com/mlb/columns/baker_jim/1372267.html

  18. #68
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    Re: 2019 Gary Sanchez performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    Look, he made it back to the bag, he just fell off. Or more likely that 3rd Baseman dude pushed him off. I'll give Gary a pass on that one.
    In that situation, with his history of mental miscues, I won't. He shouldn't be leading to a degree that creates any risk of getting picked, or should be alert enough to immediately and agressively get back to the bag after the batter doesn't offer at the pitch. Or hit the deck when you realize it's going to be close.

    It was a critical situation and an extra step in those circumstances is trivial compared to the risk of getting picked off.

  19. #69
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    Re: 2019 Gary Sanchez performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    In that situation, with his history of mental miscues, I won't. He shouldn't be leading to a degree that creates any risk of getting picked, or should be alert enough to immediately and agressively get back to the bag after the batter doesn't offer at the pitch. Or hit the deck when you realize it's going to be close.

    It was a critical situation and an extra step in those circumstances is trivial compared to the risk of getting picked off.
    Yeah, I was really just kidding. He needs to get his head in the game. All game.
    Just win!

  20. #70
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: 2019 Gary Sanchez performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    Yeah, I was really just kidding. He needs to get his head in the game. All game.
    I'm glad that you're talking about what his head is in rather than what's in his head.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  21. #71
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    Re: 2019 Gary Sanchez performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I'm glad that you're talking about what his head is in rather than what's in his head.
    How on earth would I know what's going on in his head?
    Just win!

  22. #72
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    Re: 2019 Gary Sanchez performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    How on earth would I know what's going on in his head?
    How many baseball games have you seen?
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  23. #73
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    Re: 2019 Gary Sanchez performance thread

    Too many home runs lol
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  24. #74
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    Re: 2019 Gary Sanchez performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    How many baseball games have you seen?
    Thousands and thousands.
    Just win!

  25. #75
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    Re: 2019 Gary Sanchez performance thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ojo View Post
    Getting picked off 3B, as a catcher? That’s one of the most embarrassing things that can happen to a player.
    Not worse than the hidden ball trick.

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