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  1. #1
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    Would a Runner Get Credit For Advancing in This Scenario?

    Let's say there are runners on first and third with one out. The batter flies out. The runner on third tries to score, gets in a rundown, and gets tagged out for the last out. Before the tag out, the runner from first got to second. Just like how a run counts if it was scored before the third out if it wasn't a forceout, shouldn't the trail runner get credit in the play-by-play for advancing? In my scenario, second base was unoccupied, so the trail runner could have advanced without the lead runner trying to advance. To make my point, I'll make a second example. This time there are still runners on first and third with one out. The batter flies out deep enough that the lead runner thought it would be over the fielder's head and possibly a home run, ran home, and realized he needed to go back to third to tag up. Let's say he steps on third base wrong and is injured and unable to move for the rest of the play, but can't get out because he's touching third. If the trail runner gets to second, he will get credited with advancing, and the inning continues as the play made one out for the second out of the innings. If you change the lead runner from getting injured at third to making the last out of the inning by being tagged out after the trail runner reached second, shouldn't the trail runner still get credited with advancing?

  2. #2
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    Re: Would a Runner Get Credit For Advancing in This Scenario?

    Quote Originally Posted by EvanJ View Post
    Let's say there are runners on first and third with one out. The batter flies out. The runner on third tries to score, gets in a rundown, and gets tagged out for the last out. Before the tag out, the runner from first got to second. Just like how a run counts if it was scored before the third out if it wasn't a forceout, shouldn't the trail runner get credit in the play-by-play for advancing? In my scenario, second base was unoccupied, so the trail runner could have advanced without the lead runner trying to advance. To make my point, I'll make a second example. This time there are still runners on first and third with one out. The batter flies out deep enough that the lead runner thought it would be over the fielder's head and possibly a home run, ran home, and realized he needed to go back to third to tag up. Let's say he steps on third base wrong and is injured and unable to move for the rest of the play, but can't get out because he's touching third. If the trail runner gets to second, he will get credited with advancing, and the inning continues as the play made one out for the second out of the innings. If you change the lead runner from getting injured at third to making the last out of the inning by being tagged out after the trail runner reached second, shouldn't the trail runner still get credited with advancing?

    Doubtful. Usually the trail runner is not credited with stats like that because the defense made a successful attempt to get the lead runner out. But it may be an official scorers judgement call.
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  3. #3
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Would a Runner Get Credit For Advancing in This Scenario?

    If the runner advanced safely, that should be noted in the reported pbp, and I would note it in my scorecard. Otherwise, Iím not sure what it means to "get credit for advancing." It doesnít show up in the box score or in any stats, itís just a technicality to show that the runner was in fact standing on second rather than first.

    These sound like complicated variants of advancing on a throw.

  4. #4
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    Re: Would a Runner Get Credit For Advancing in This Scenario?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Doubtful. Usually the trail runner is not credited with stats like that because the defense made a successful attempt to get the lead runner out. But it may be an official scorers judgement call.
    Official scores decide why something happened, not what happened. Official scorers say if a runner reached on a hit or an error, and whether a guy hit a triple or a double and took third on a throw home, but official scorers don't determine whether a guy ends the inning on first or second.

    I thought I saw Newsday's box scores give runners moved up as a statistic, but I can't find that online. I should check tomorrow. What I did find online is the statistic runners left in scoring position, and for that it matters whether a guy is left on first or second.

  5. #5
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: Would a Runner Get Credit For Advancing in This Scenario?

    Quote Originally Posted by EvanJ View Post
    Official scores decide why something happened, not what happened. Official scorers say if a runner reached on a hit or an error, and whether a guy hit a triple or a double and took third on a throw home, but official scorers don't determine whether a guy ends the inning on first or second.

    I thought I saw Newsday's box scores give runners moved up as a statistic, but I can't find that online. I should check tomorrow. What I did find online is the statistic runners left in scoring position, and for that it matters whether a guy is left on first or second.
    If he reaches second safely, he's reached second safely. It's not that complicated, it's just like any other "advanced on throw."

    If official scorers don't decide it, then there's no one to decide it. I suppose an mp could, but umps have other things to do. If there's a play somewhere else that's deciding the inning, the umps will all be positioned to see things that make a difference. They couldn't care less if a guy is technically on second when the third oout is made, because the inning is over and it makes no difference.
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  6. #6
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    Re: Would a Runner Get Credit For Advancing in This Scenario?

    In my opinion the runner reached second on "fielders indifference", not by his baserunning "skill". Indifference because the defense was busy trying to secure the third out.


    Andy
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  7. #7
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nome View Post
    In my opinion the runner reached second on "fielders indifference", not by his baserunning "skill". Indifference because the defense was busy trying to secure the third out.


    Andy
    Thatís basically what "advanced on throw" is. Man on second, batter hits a single to left, throw comes in to home plate, batter advances to second on the throw. He hasnít stretched a single into a double, he just hi a single and moved up when the fielders were busy elsewhere.

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