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  1. #1
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    A Lot of Teams not Competing

    Let's see:

    In the AL it's Seattle, Texas, Anaheim, Detroit, Minnesota & KC. 40% of the league. In the NL there's Arizona, San Francisco, Pittsburgh & Miami, with several other teams not looking very likely to compete for postseason play.

    This is not good for the game, IMO - and I think it draws attention to not having a minimum payroll for each team, in order to create more competition in general. How in the world can a team be competitive with a $100M payroll?? Aren't these owners collectively making tons of millions of dollars through revenues and TV contracts and regional sports networks?

    New Rule: If you're one of 30 team owners, you have to field a roster for no less than $150M.

    Wouldn't the Player's Union want this?

    As rich as this sport is, the next CBA will need to really address some problems this sport is dealing with, IMO.
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  2. #2
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    Re: A Lot of Teams not Competing

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    How in the world can a team be competitive with a $100M payroll??
    Last year the 14th, 15th, 23rd and 30th highest payroll made the playoff


    Brewers and A's both had payrolls under $100M
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  3. #3
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    Re: A Lot of Teams not Competing

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Last year the 14th, 15th, 23rd and 30th highest payroll made the playoff

    Brewers and A's both had payrolls under $100M
    So what are the Brewers & A's doing that all these perennial non-contenders aren't doing? Why are all these teams refusing to spend what it takes to put them in the hunt?
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  4. #4
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    Re: A Lot of Teams not Competing

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Last year the 14th, 15th, 23rd and 30th highest payroll made the playoff


    Brewers and A's both had payrolls under $100M
    The Rays were also able to contend with there low payroll. No reason to put a floor into the system unless you are going to put a hard cap.

    According to the USA TODAY database of team salaries, the median team salary last year was $133M. Nine teams had team salaries below $100M - it appears these salaries might be opening day salaries.

    https://www.usatoday.com/sports/mlb/...2018/team/all/
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  5. #5
    Do not vex me mortal Hitman23's Avatar
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    Re: A Lot of Teams not Competing

    The Mets made a pretty big splash with Cano and Diaz. And they may trade Conforto, Rosario or Nimmo at some point. Perhaps even Wheeler. I think they’re honestly trying. New GM seems aggressive. Good for the Mets it’s an embarrassment watching a huge market team with a rabid fan base operate like they’re the A’s. They should make a move for one of the big guys. Machado or Harper. With that pitching they’ve got a shot if they upgrade their offense. They got their closer. They need a big offensive player. I thought they should have tried to go after Goldschmidt.
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  6. #6

    Re: A Lot of Teams not Competing

    Quote Originally Posted by Hitman23 View Post
    The Mets made a pretty big splash with Cano and Diaz. And they may trade Conforto, Rosario or Nimmo at some point. Perhaps even Wheeler. I think they’re honestly trying. New GM seems aggressive. Good for the Mets it’s an embarrassment watching a huge market team with a rabid fan base operate like they’re the A’s. They should make a move for one of the big guys. Machado or Harper. With that pitching they’ve got a shot if they upgrade their offense. They got their closer. They need a big offensive player. I thought they should have tried to go after Goldschmidt.
    The Mets spend enough money but they don't have an unlimited well and in the past they've used their resources on dumb signings like Swarzak. They need to be smarter.
    Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. ~ Dale Carnegie

  7. #7
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    Re: A Lot of Teams not Competing

    If you want salary floor, there would be a hard cap or somthing like NBA cap which would greatly restrict teams on spending.

    You also definitely need to increase the revenue sharing by a lot.

  8. #8
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Re: A Lot of Teams not Competing

    They’ve set it up so teams only have to compete for fifth-best in the league.

  9. #9
    First Name: Keninovich hardrain's Avatar
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    Re: A Lot of Teams not Competing

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    Last year the 14th, 15th, 23rd and 30th highest payroll made the playoff


    Brewers and A's both had payrolls under $100M

    Yes, and the Rays won 90 games!
    Standings: Big Inning 32-16; Blue Cut 27-21; Shoo Fly 26-22; Husk 22-26; Frank Pierce 21-27; Iowa City 16-32.

  10. #10
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    Re: A Lot of Teams not Competing

    Quote Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
    If you want salary floor, there would be a hard cap or somthing like NBA cap which would greatly restrict teams on spending.

    You also definitely need to increase the revenue sharing by a lot.
    This.

    Owners are not )that) stupid. They will demand a hard cap if they have to give in to a salary floor. And that hard cap won't be $300 million. It will be somewhere around the first penalty level ($roughly $226 million). Maybe in 2-3 years with the new CBA, it will be higher, but not by much. Maybe in the $235 million range.

    That will never fly with the PA. It will severely limit the upper range for "real" stars when they hit FA, and will destroy the guy who is a decent player, but past age 30 or so. Like what Neil Walker went through last year. Multiply that by dozens more players every year.

  11. #11
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    Re: A Lot of Teams not Competing

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    Why are all these teams refusing to spend what it takes to put them in the hunt?

    If it's not a payroll floor that will fix this, then what will encourage ownership to "play to win"?
    What kind of message are these clubs sending to future FA acquisitions? There could be a few 100-loss teams this season. I thought parity was important? This can't be good for the game.
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  12. #12
    SI Metman SI Baseballman's Avatar
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    Re: A Lot of Teams not Competing

    All of these teams are following the Royals/Cubs/Astros blueprints. They were horrible for years, stockpiled tons of young talent, let that talent develop, added a few key pieces and won the World Series. They all went from perennial cellar dwellars to champs within a few seasons.

    All these tanking teams need is to draft another Carlos Correa or Kris Bryant to make all the difference.

  13. #13
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    Re: A Lot of Teams not Competing

    Quote Originally Posted by SI Baseballman View Post
    All of these teams are following the Royals/Cubs/Astros blueprints. They were horrible for years, stockpiled tons of young talent, let that talent develop, added a few key pieces and won the World Series. They all went from perennial cellar dwellars to champs within a few seasons.

    All these tanking teams need is to draft another Carlos Correa or Kris Bryant to make all the difference.
    Even the Red Sox got Benintendi in the draft after finishing in last place in 14.

  14. #14

    Re: A Lot of Teams not Competing

    The more teams tanking the better for the ones that aren’t, buyers’ market.

  15. #15
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    Re: A Lot of Teams not Competing

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    Let's see:

    In the AL it's Seattle, Texas, Anaheim, Detroit, Minnesota & KC. 40% of the league. In the NL there's Arizona, San Francisco, Pittsburgh & Miami, with several other teams not looking very likely to compete for postseason play.

    This is not good for the game, IMO - and I think it draws attention to not having a minimum payroll for each team, in order to create more competition in general. How in the world can a team be competitive with a $100M payroll?? Aren't these owners collectively making tons of millions of dollars through revenues and TV contracts and regional sports networks?

    New Rule: If you're one of 30 team owners, you have to field a roster for no less than $150M.

    Wouldn't the Player's Union want this?

    As rich as this sport is, the next CBA will need to really address some problems this sport is dealing with, IMO.
    Lost in all this is the obvious fact that it's a zero sum game. Any player with elite talent is going to play. I personally don't care if he makes 8 million instead of 20 million.

    For too long teams have been handcuffing themselves to terrible long term contracts for underperforming players on the decline. Now with advances analytics, there is a precise value assigned to every player right now and in upcoming years. I would argue that big salaries have the OPPOSITE effect and make teams non competitive because they can't adjust their roster because of dead weight.

    Just because you have a low payroll does not mean you can't win. Marlins, Orioles, of course - they can't win with teams like that. But for the most part teams like the Braves & Phillies have been focusing on developing young talent and spotting value and WAR which happens to come with lower salary.

    I don't care how much the players are leaving on the table, I'm not going to cry because Machado thinks he deserves more than 180 million. Good luck with that one

  16. #16
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    Re: A Lot of Teams not Competing

    You have to be aware that there is a tremendous disparity in income between the 30 teams. In 2012 the Yankees total revenue was $480 million while the bottom ten were below $200 million. By 2018 the Yankees revenue rose t0 $619 million. I don't have data for the other teams, but it is obvious that in these days where a star commands a 10 year contract for over $300 million, many teams simply cannot afford to compete..
    There are at least 6 and possibly 10 teams that are financially unstable.
    There aren't that many idiots around these days willing to put their assets at risk in a baseball venture.


    What we have is what we have unless you want to reduce the number of teams to say 24 from today's 30.


    Andy
    Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
    Lost in all this is the obvious fact that it's a zero sum game. Any player with elite talent is going to play. I personally don't care if he makes 8 million instead of 20 million.

    For too long teams have been handcuffing themselves to terrible long term contracts for underperforming players on the decline. Now with advances analytics, there is a precise value assigned to every player right now and in upcoming years. I would argue that big salaries have the OPPOSITE effect and make teams non competitive because they can't adjust their roster because of dead weight.

    Just because you have a low payroll does not mean you can't win. Marlins, Orioles, of course - they can't win with teams like that. But for the most part teams like the Braves & Phillies have been focusing on developing young talent and spotting value and WAR which happens to come with lower salary.

    I don't care how much the players are leaving on the table, I'm not going to cry because Machado thinks he deserves more than 180 million. Good luck with that one
    The system is broken not because the FA couldn't get big contract. It's because they're vastly underpaid in early teams' controlled years AND couldn't get big contract when they finally have a chance. The teams are having both ways and pocket more and more money thanks to fans only looking at the FA part.

  18. #18
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    Re: A Lot of Teams not Competing

    Quote Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
    The system is broken not because the FA couldn't get big contract. It's because they're vastly underpaid in early teams' controlled years AND couldn't get big contract when they finally have a chance. The teams are having both ways and pocket more and more money thanks to fans only looking at the FA part.


    How can you call untried, inexperienced rookies underpaid at a salary of $455,000 a season.
    Granted, if the player has a good rookie season he deserves a good raise. Many players has what is termed "Sophomore slump", they usually don't get a cut in salary.
    Most, if not all players get a fair shake. They all hire experienced agents to negotiate their salaries and for the most part, the agents are far better negotiators than is baseball management.
    IMHO long term (more than 5 years) contracts are unfair to owners. Most don't make the money from baseball that you think


    Andy
    Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.

  19. #19
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    Re: A Lot of Teams not Competing

    Quote Originally Posted by Nome View Post
    How can you call untried, inexperienced rookies underpaid at a salary of $455,000 a season.
    Granted, if the player has a good rookie season he deserves a good raise. Many players has what is termed "Sophomore slump", they usually don't get a cut in salary.
    Most, if not all players get a fair shake. They all hire experienced agents to negotiate their salaries and for the most part, the agents are far better negotiators than is baseball management.
    IMHO long term (more than 5 years) contracts are unfair to owners. Most don't make the money from baseball that you think


    Andy
    just a nitpick- the 2018 minimum salary was $545K. 2019 will be more but I can't find the raised amount.

  20. #20
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    Re: A Lot of Teams not Competing

    Quote Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
    The system is broken not because the FA couldn't get big contract. It's because they're vastly underpaid in early teams' controlled years AND couldn't get big contract when they finally have a chance. The teams are having both ways and pocket more and more money thanks to fans only looking at the FA part.
    This is pretty accurate.
    Analytics are telling owners more often than not that big money deal for a FA isn't going to be much better than a "cheap young player" under team control for a lot less money.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  21. #21
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    Re: A Lot of Teams not Competing

    Quote Originally Posted by Nome View Post
    How can you call untried, inexperienced rookies underpaid at a salary of $455,000 a season.
    Granted, if the player has a good rookie season he deserves a good raise. Many players has what is termed "Sophomore slump", they usually don't get a cut in salary.
    Most, if not all players get a fair shake. They all hire experienced agents to negotiate their salaries and for the most part, the agents are far better negotiators than is baseball management.
    IMHO long term (more than 5 years) contracts are unfair to owners. Most don't make the money from baseball that you think


    Andy

    MLB revenues exceed $10 billion for the first time. For the 15th consecutive year, Major League Baseball set a record for industry revenues in 2017, according to a Forbes report. Revenues eclipsed $10 billion for the first time this past season. In 2015, MLB revenues approached $9.5 billion.


    I think there is more money available then you think Andy.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  22. #22
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    Re: A Lot of Teams not Competing

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    I think there is more money available then you think Andy.


    There is for the top 15 teams, but do research on the small market teams and you will find that I am right on the money


    Andy
    Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.

  23. #23
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    Re: A Lot of Teams not Competing

    Quote Originally Posted by Nome View Post
    There is for the top 15 teams, but do research on the small market teams and you will find that I am right on the money


    Andy
    Are those figures before or after revenue sharing? I honestly don't know just asking.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  24. #24
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    Re: A Lot of Teams not Competing

    Quote Originally Posted by Portbb View Post
    just a nitpick- the 2018 minimum salary was $545K. 2019 will be more but I can't find the raised amount.
    $555K this season - for 2020 and 2021, there will be a cost of living adjustment.
    Forgive me for taking the Contrarian view

  25. #25
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    Re: A Lot of Teams not Competing

    People seems to forget that players have to go through the minor league which they get paid as little as $1,100 per month before all the tax and fee. And clubhouse could trap you in the minor in order to get additional year of control. Not all the players have a million signing bonus.

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