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  1. #1
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    Analytics and Cashman

    Was listening to the postgame tonight on YES and the general consensus was that the analytics being used by the Yankees was producing a team that gives away defensive outs and couldnít hit. I have to believe that the problem isnít analytics per se but the model the Yankees have created. In other words they view power as the end all be all overwhelming and overcoming other shortcomings. In short the feeling was that they were living and mostly dying by the homerun.

    The Astros use analytics but donít seem to completely value power. BA and contact seem to have a place in their thinking. I wonder if Cashman can take a look at his model and adjust it? He tends to be stubborn and doesnít like to admit mistakes or adjust on the fly.
    Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps!?!?

  2. #2
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    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by jpao89 View Post
    Was listening to the postgame tonight on YES and the general consensus was that the analytics being used by the Yankees was producing a team that gives away defensive outs and couldnít hit. I have to believe that the problem isnít analytics per se but the model the Yankees have created. In other words they view power as the end all be all overwhelming and overcoming other shortcomings. In short the feeling was that they were living and mostly dying by the homerun.

    The Astros use analytics but donít seem to completely value power. BA and contact seem to have a place in their thinking. I wonder if Cashman can take a look at his model and adjust it? He tends to be stubborn and doesnít like to admit mistakes or adjust on the fly.
    I am all for more contact and fewer strikeouts. If that means fewer HR's, bring it on. In our all or nothing game it makes us extremely vulnerable to good pitching. We are not built to be a postseason club.


    That said, next year our primary need is stellar starting pitching. I am not a fan of the "opener" style of pitching strategy.
    It's going to be a long off season.


    Andy
    Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.

  3. #3
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    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by Nome View Post
    I am all for more contact and fewer strikeouts. If that means fewer HR's, bring it on. In our all or nothing game it makes us extremely vulnerable to good pitching. We are not built to be a postseason club.


    That said, next year our primary need is stellar starting pitching. I am not a fan of the "opener" style of pitching strategy.
    It's going to be a long off season.


    Andy
    I could not agree more. And to get it they are likely going to need to trade some of the big boppers. I would like to see them re-calibrate with some defense as well. Pitching needs defense.
    Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps!?!?

  4. #4

    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    You mean we don't get a trophy for breaking the all time HR record?

  5. #5

    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by jpao89 View Post
    I could not agree more. And to get it they are likely going to need to trade some of the big boppers. I would like to see them re-calibrate with some defense as well. Pitching needs defense.
    All spot on. We rely entirely on bashing opponents into submission, which works well when your bashers are bashing. But all of our big boppers are incredibly streaky hitters. Not a good postseason strategy. Which leads to pitching. It's pretty obvious we don't have an ace on the staff. Sevy is a pretty reliable first half ace. After that, it's a crap shoot. If we want to contend, we need at least 2 FOTR this off-season. Who is even available?

    On the need for defense, would you shop Sanchez in a package for an elite pitcher and look to pick up a more defensive-minded catcher?

  6. #6
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    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixwell View Post
    You mean we don't get a trophy for breaking the all time HR record?


    We get an atta boy. But you cannot spend it.


    Andy
    Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.

  7. #7

    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by Jmg32 View Post
    On the need for defense, would you shop Sanchez in a package for an elite pitcher and look to pick up a more defensive-minded catcher?
    Depending on what "elite pitcher" you're talking about, I would be all in on trading Sanchez.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  8. #8
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    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    I am going to commit heresy as far as Yankees are concerned.


    But the Mets gave some good pitching on their roster and in their farm system. I'd like to see us make a pitch for DeGrom or Wheeler and possibly Syndegaard.


    I'd try an enticement of Judge, and depending on how the talks go, my only holdbacks would be most of our younger pitchers, Torres, Andujar and Gregorius.


    I know how much Judge means to our fans but you have to give to get and we need pitching.


    I want to see us build our offense on contact hitters. And as I have said before I do not want to see us go after the like of Trout, Machado, or Harper. Their contracts would hamper us for a decade. And even though I want pitching, I don't want to be saddled with a long term contract with any pitcher in this age of the Tommy John epidemic.


    Again, it is a thought. I have put restrictions on it that all but make such a deal unlikely, but it helps to think boldly.

    And no, I haven't been drinking. It's too early


    Andy
    Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.

  9. #9
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    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by Jmg32 View Post

    On the need for defense, would you shop Sanchez in a package for an elite pitcher and look to pick up a more defensive-minded catcher?
    I would package Sanchez in a heartbeat.
    Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps!?!?

  10. #10
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    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by Nome View Post
    We get an atta boy. But you cannot spend it.


    Andy
    And a bonus prize of Giancarlo Stanton for nine more years!! Heís like A-rod only worse.
    Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps!?!?

  11. #11

    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Need to have the guys aim for the gap more than the fences, perhaps not all the time but certainly situationally. Obviously last night a Sanchez slam would have been epic, sending us to game 5 in Boston, but a line drive over the SS' head would have tied the game at least.

    However, statistically in the postseason HRs are actually more important because the pitching is better, so that mistake has to make it over the fence because they're less likely to get 4 straight singles.
    #HarperWatch

  12. #12

    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by Nome View Post
    I am going to commit heresy as far as Yankees are concerned.


    But the Mets gave some good pitching on their roster and in their farm system. I'd like to see us make a pitch for DeGrom or Wheeler and possibly Syndegaard.


    I'd try an enticement of Judge, and depending on how the talks go, my only holdbacks would be most of our younger pitchers, Torres, Andujar and Gregorius.


    I know how much Judge means to our fans but you have to give to get and we need pitching.


    I want to see us build our offense on contact hitters. And as I have said before I do not want to see us go after the like of Trout, Machado, or Harper. Their contracts would hamper us for a decade. And even though I want pitching, I don't want to be saddled with a long term contract with any pitcher in this age of the Tommy John epidemic.


    Again, it is a thought. I have put restrictions on it that all but make such a deal unlikely, but it helps to think boldly.

    And no, I haven't been drinking. It's too early


    Andy
    Can we just to put to rest for once and for all the DeGrom pipe dream?

  13. #13
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    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by jpao89 View Post
    Was listening to the postgame tonight on YES and the general consensus was that the analytics being used by the Yankees was producing a team that gives away defensive outs and couldnít hit. I have to believe that the problem isnít analytics per se but the model the Yankees have created. In other words they view power as the end all be all overwhelming and overcoming other shortcomings. In short the feeling was that they were living and mostly dying by the homerun.

    The Astros use analytics but donít seem to completely value power. BA and contact seem to have a place in their thinking. I wonder if Cashman can take a look at his model and adjust it? He tends to be stubborn and doesnít like to admit mistakes or adjust on the fly.
    I place the blame squarely on the WIN METHOD
    What do tigers dream of when they take a little tiger snooze?

  14. #14
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    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixwell View Post
    Can we just to put to rest for once and for all the DeGrom pipe dream?


    DeGrom isn't a pipe dream if the Mets get an offer they cannot refuse


    Andy
    Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.

  15. #15
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    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by jpao89 View Post
    I would package Sanchez in a heartbeat.


    I think Sanchez has plenty of upside potential. He can fix his defensive lapses and he has one hell of a throwing arm. His offensive work this year is an aberration, but that said I would trade him for the right package. Romaine is a hell of a good catcher in waiting


    Andy
    Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.

  16. #16

    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by Nome View Post
    DeGrom isn't a pipe dream if the Mets get an offer they cannot refuse


    Andy
    Right now the only player the Mets trade DeGrom to the Yankees for is Aaron Judge. You ready for that? DeGrom is probably the least attainable elite pitcher (behind Sale obviously)

  17. #17
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    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    HRs are not the problem. The offense in general is not the problem. It's the starting pitching that held us back. With that said, I do think we have the type of offense that is easier to shut down in a short series because we have a lot of guys in the lineup with holes in their swing who are very susceptible to chasing sliders off the pate. It's likely very easy to gameplan against a lineup like that in a short series.
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  18. #18
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    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by allens wolfpack View Post
    i place the blame squarely on the win method
    blame the cult!!!
    Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps!?!?

  19. #19

    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    You donít want low average hitters in the middle of youíre lineup.
    Baseball games are not won with a formula. If you can hit, they will find a place for you

  20. #20
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    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by Nome View Post
    I think Sanchez has plenty of upside potential. He can fix his defensive lapses and he has one hell of a throwing arm. His offensive work this year is an aberration, but that said I would trade him for the right package. Romaine is a hell of a good catcher in waiting


    Andy
    I agree with you but think the Yankees should trade him while his value is high, while he still has a strong upside. Another season like this one and nobody is going to be talking about his upside. Instead, and unfairly probably, they will be talking about his wasted talent.
    Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps!?!?

  21. #21
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    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMuntz View Post
    HRs are not the problem. The offense in general is not the problem. It's the starting pitching that held us back. With that said, I do think we have the type of offense that is easier to shut down in a short series because we have a lot of guys in the lineup with holes in their swing who are very susceptible to chasing sliders off the pate. It's likely very easy to gameplan against a lineup like that in a short series.
    That is always the age old debate. What came first the chicken or the egg. In baseball, who is to blame the lack of run scoring or the failure to keep the other team from scoring runs.

    Nobody can argue that the starting pitching was the problem. Still, with said rotation they managed to win 100 games and, honestly, only needed one or two little old base hits to win at least one more game in this series. In my mind, they should have won game one.

    I think we can agree on this. With the Yankees talent and wherewithal, they should be looking to score a gazillion runs and keep the other team to zero every game. I think right now the front office is getting too cute with figuring out how to load it all on one side of the ball and still win.
    Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps!?!?

  22. #22
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    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by fightingirish595 View Post
    You donít want low average hitters in the middle of youíre lineup.

    Exactly, someone sooner or later has to 1)set the table and 2) clean it up. The thing that makes power hitters effective is having a lineup that makes the pitcher have to throw hittable pitches to them.
    Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps!?!?

  23. #23
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    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by jpao89 View Post
    That is always the age old debate. What came first the chicken or the egg. In baseball, who is to blame the lack of run scoring or the failure to keep the other team from scoring runs.

    Nobody can argue that the starting pitching was the problem. Still, with said rotation they managed to win 100 games and, honestly, only needed one or two little old base hits to win at least one more game in this series. In my mind, they should have won game one.

    I think we can agree on this. With the Yankees talent and wherewithal, they should be looking to score a gazillion runs and keep the other team to zero every game. I think right now the front office is getting too cute with figuring out how to load it all on one side of the ball and still win.

    Home runs are the problem if our batters concentrate on Homers instead of OBP. Haven't we learned that you score more runs when you get more players on base.


    Back in the 40's or 50's Ralph Kiner said that Power hitters drive Cadillacs (today Ferraris) and singles hitters drive fords. You don't win ballgames if you cannot get men on base.


    I am so disgusted with today's players who don't mind striking out 200 hundred ties a year.


    I want a team built on players like Andujar, Torres and Gardner. I know Gardner is at the end of his career, but the way he approached hitting is what I want all our team to do.


    Where are players like Yogi? He never struck out more than 38 times a year averaging about 20 a year, yet he hit for power with a .482 career slugging pct.


    you those days are long gone, money dictates how the game is played.


    Andy
    Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.

  24. #24
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    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by Jmg32 View Post
    All spot on. We rely entirely on bashing opponents into submission, which works well when your bashers are bashing. But all of our big boppers are incredibly streaky hitters. Not a good postseason strategy. Which leads to pitching. It's pretty obvious we don't have an ace on the staff. Sevy is a pretty reliable first half ace. After that, it's a crap shoot. If we want to contend, we need at least 2 FOTR this off-season. Who is even available?

    On the need for defense, would you shop Sanchez in a package for an elite pitcher and look to pick up a more defensive-minded catcher?
    On your terminal question: Yes, if (and only if) it were truly an elite pitcher.

  25. #25

    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by Nome View Post
    Romaine is a hell of a good catcher in waiting
    I would agree if he'd been able to show us consistently good production during that period when he was playing on arugula basis.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

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