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  1. #26
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    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by Nome View Post
    I am going to commit heresy as far as Yankees are concerned.


    But the Mets gave some good pitching on their roster and in their farm system. I'd like to see us make a pitch for DeGrom or Wheeler and possibly Syndegaard.


    I'd try an enticement of Judge, and depending on how the talks go, my only holdbacks would be most of our younger pitchers, Torres, Andujar and Gregorius.


    I know how much Judge means to our fans but you have to give to get and we need pitching.


    I want to see us build our offense on contact hitters. And as I have said before I do not want to see us go after the like of Trout, Machado, or Harper. Their contracts would hamper us for a decade. And even though I want pitching, I don't want to be saddled with a long term contract with any pitcher in this age of the Tommy John epidemic.


    Again, it is a thought. I have put restrictions on it that all but make such a deal unlikely, but it helps to think boldly.

    And no, I haven't been drinking. It's too early


    Andy

    There is NO WAY Judge is traded. He is the corner stone for years. He is a phenomenal and impactful hitter. He is the solution - not the problem. One of the only guys who gets on base and gets big hits.

    DeGrom is great - but so is Kershaw (BLANK CHECK!) and MadBum if he is available.

    Judge is UNTOUCHABLE as is Torres.

  2. #27
    NYYF Cy Young


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    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    This team reminds me of the Texas teams that excelled in power and were beaten by Yankee pitching. The 90s Yankees fouled off pitches and tired pitchers out, tho they also hit home runs. Cashman should remember that. Also, I read somewhere that in getting Stanton they thought they were taking advantage of the novice Jeter - maybe the opposite is true - that Jeter saw what kind of hitter Stanton was and was happy to get rid of him not only because of the salary!

  3. #28
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    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    I would agree if he'd been able to show us consistently good production during that period when he was playing on arugula basis.
    He has been as solid as an iceberg.
    Do not fear, all we want to do is talk.

    Only words, and then your thoughts.

  4. #29
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    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by joshuaeagan View Post
    There is NO WAY Judge is traded. He is the corner stone for years. He is a phenomenal and impactful hitter. He is the solution - not the problem. One of the only guys who gets on base and gets big hits.

    DeGrom is great - but so is Kershaw (BLANK CHECK!) and MadBum if he is available.

    Judge is UNTOUCHABLE as is Torres.


    Please don't get me wrong. I admire Judge as a player. He is great defensively and a powerhouse on offense. In fact I think he can be a Hall of Famer.


    But the Yankees constituted as they are will not fare well in the postseason. Good pitching will always beat them.


    What we need more than Power hitting all stars are contact hitters. The Yankees struck out more times than they got base Hits. Stanton and Judge led the parade with 1.3 K's per hit.


    We need players who can work the count (Judge does a good job here) and who can put the ball in play.


    I am tired watching Judge futilely striking out on low outside breaking balls. Until we build a team who concentrates on putting the ball in play we will not have any postseason success. That is my gripe with this team.It is a bit unfair to compare Judge to Ted Williams, But in his 19 year career he had 2654 hits with 2021 walks and only 709 strikeouts. Nuff said. Judge might strikeout in his first three and a half years more than Ted in his whole career. Ted also had power.


    Andy


    The Yankees
    Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.

  5. #30

    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by Nome View Post
    Please don't get me wrong. I admire Judge as a player. He is great defensively and a powerhouse on offense. In fact I think he can be a Hall of Famer.


    But the Yankees constituted as they are will not fare well in the postseason. Good pitching will always beat them.


    What we need more than Power hitting all stars are contact hitters. The Yankees struck out more times than they got base Hits. Stanton and Judge led the parade with 1.3 K's per hit.


    We need players who can work the count (Judge does a good job here) and who can put the ball in play.


    I am tired watching Judge futilely striking out on low outside breaking balls. Until we build a team who concentrates on putting the ball in play we will not have any postseason success. That is my gripe with this team.It is a bit unfair to compare Judge to Ted Williams, But in his 19 year career he had 2654 hits with 2021 walks and only 709 strikeouts. Nuff said. Judge might strikeout in his first three and a half years more than Ted in his whole career. Ted also had power.


    Andy


    The Yankees
    Ted Williams would strike out significantly more in this era. That being said, I don't believe in the "3 outcome approach" of Stanton, Sanchez, and Bird. Judge does not ascribe to that approach. He goes the other way and will sacrifice at-bats for the betterment of the team.

    They need more guys with Judge's approach. And it's not easy to find guys who can thrive under the NY pressure. You don't trade this unless it's for Trout or 2012 Kershaw

    Just my opinion of course

  6. #31
    The Best Ever ! jnewmark's Avatar
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    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Bold idea, but Judge is going nowhere, at least while he remains under team control. Fans would go crazy if he was traded, it doesn't matter who they got in return. He's almost established Mickey Mantle type fame already with the fans. What will be interesting to see is how the Yankees deal with him as he approaches his free agent years.
    What we can appreciate now is that the Yankees from 1996-2003 were even more extraordinary than we thought.

  7. #32
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    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by jnewmark View Post
    Bold idea, but Judge is going nowhere, at least while he remains under team control. Fans would go crazy if he was traded, it doesn't matter who they got in return. He's almost established Mickey Mantle type fame already with the fans. What will be interesting to see is how the Yankees deal with him as he approaches his free agent years.
    Mick was my hero growing up and he replaced Joe D (another hero for me) in CF. I would love to see Judge replace Hicks in CF after his contract, Clint play LF and Florial in RF. I know this will never happen but it would make me happy.

    As for Analytics I feel Yankees are behind Houston and Boston in this area and Brian falls in love with players too much because the numbers are not there. Boston seems to be getting batter more than us since Theo and Bill James years ago (? 3 or is it 4 divisional championships). Are we winning championships with Brain?

  8. #33
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    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by poneil2321 View Post
    Ted Williams would strike out significantly more in this era. That being said, I don't believe in the "3 outcome approach" of Stanton, Sanchez, and Bird. Judge does not ascribe to that approach. He goes the other way and will sacrifice at-bats for the betterment of the team.

    They need more guys with Judge's approach. And it's not easy to find guys who can thrive under the NY pressure. You don't trade this unless it's for Trout or 2012 Kershaw

    Just my opinion of course


    I totally disagree with your premise. Ted and Yogi were hitters who didn't try for HR's every time at bat. They were contact hitters. Yes the game has changer in the 70 or so years since they were stars, but unlike the motivation for todays players they played to win. they were team players. I want players who are team players. I want players who play with emotion as typified by ONeil, Billy Martin, Pinella. I do not like players who accept strikeouts with, say, the bases loaded, to go back to the dugout saying, Oh well, maybe I'll hit a HR the next at bat. If we go after players like Machado, Harper and Trout, we are only doomed to failure.


    The only way to win games is to score more runs than the other team and the way to do that is to keep putting men on base. Strikeouts kill the game


    Homers are great, strikeouts are not.


    Berra and Williams would still be superstars in todays game


    Andy
    Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.

  9. #34

    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Lol doomed if they targeted trout? The best player in the game today sure would doom them if he were available.

    Harper strikesout but also walks a ton. That's not insignificant.
    #HarperWatch

  10. #35

    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by Nome View Post
    I totally disagree with your premise. Ted and Yogi were hitters who didn't try for HR's every time at bat. They were contact hitters. Yes the game has changer in the 70 or so years since they were stars, but unlike the motivation for todays players they played to win. they were team players. I want players who are team players. I want players who play with emotion as typified by ONeil, Billy Martin, Pinella. I do not like players who accept strikeouts with, say, the bases loaded, to go back to the dugout saying, Oh well, maybe I'll hit a HR the next at bat. If we go after players like Machado, Harper and Trout, we are only doomed to failure.


    The only way to win games is to score more runs than the other team and the way to do that is to keep putting men on base. Strikeouts kill the game


    Homers are great, strikeouts are not.


    Berra and Williams would still be superstars in todays game


    Andy
    Agree that Berra and Williams would be superstars today. But they would have to adjust their hitting philosophies given the shifting and the fact every reliever throws 95+. This would inevitably lead to more strikeouts.

    That being said, I hate the Yankees "3 outcome" approach of HR, K, or BB. But I don't think Judge ascribes to that approach and I think he is a good "hitter" and as opposed to a guy who swings only to hit homers.

    I think Judge is just as passionate as O'Neil, Berra, etc. I don't see how outbursts of raw emotion help in baseball so what is the point of Judge slamming his bat when he strikes out.

  11. #36
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    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by poneil2321 View Post
    Agree that Berra and Williams would be superstars today. But they would have to adjust their hitting philosophies given the shifting and the fact every reliever throws 95+. This would inevitably lead to more strikeouts.

    That being said, I hate the Yankees "3 outcome" approach of HR, K, or BB. But I don't think Judge ascribes to that approach and I think he is a good "hitter" and as opposed to a guy who swings only to hit homers.

    I think Judge is just as passionate as O'Neil, Berra, etc. I don't see how outbursts of raw emotion help in baseball so what is the point of Judge slamming his bat when he strikes out.


    No Judge is what he is. I do not advocate he display the raw emotion that those I mentioned did. What I advocate is that we seek some players who have spirit, some players who thrive on putting the ball in play.


    Yes, Ted and Yogi would K more today than they did in their prime but they still would be contact hitters who would have below average K's. And what I mean by superstars like trout, and Harper being disasters for the Yankees is that they could only be had for 10 plus years contract and $300-400 million plus contracts. That would seriously give us problems after six years or so.


    What I want to see is for us is to invest is scouting and developing young players and bring them along like we did with Severino, Torres, Andujar, Bird and Sanchez. Include Gardner and Betances in that group
    Would you rather have Cano at second base with five years remaining on his contract paying him $24 million a year or Torres?
    Anyway, I can dream, can't I? JMHO opinion


    Andy


    .
    Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.

  12. #37

    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by Nome View Post
    . Yes the game has changer in the 70 or so years since they were stars, but unlike the motivation for todays players they played to win. they were team players. I want players who are team players. I want players who play with emotion as typified by ONeil, Billy Martin, Pinella. I do not like players who accept strikeouts with, say, the bases loaded, to go back to the dugout saying, Oh well, maybe I'll hit a HR the next at bat. If we go after players like Machado, Harper and Trout, we are only doomed to failure.
    Wow, this is really special stuff. I'm impressed that you so accurately captured the things guys say when they go back to the dugout - not many fans realize what these guys are saying and thinking.

  13. #38
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    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Mxylsplk View Post
    Wow, this is really special stuff. I'm impressed that you so accurately captured the things guys say when they go back to the dugout - not many fans realize what these guys are saying and thinking.
    My faulty memory. Question: When was the last time somebody smash a cooler or phone when he struck out with RISP? I can only remember Austin charging Kelly after he got hit and words were exchanged. That is not the same. (also I think Joe D had more HRs than Ks one year which is unbelievable)

  14. #39

    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    He has been as solid as an iceberg.
    The catching situation is a mesclun.

  15. #40
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nome View Post
    I totally disagree with your premise. Ted and Yogi were hitters who didn't try for HR's every time at bat. They were contact hitters. Yes the game has changer in the 70 or so years since they were stars, but unlike the motivation for todays players they played to win. they were team players. I want players who are team players. I want players who play with emotion as typified by ONeil, Billy Martin, Pinella. I do not like players who accept strikeouts with, say, the bases loaded, to go back to the dugout saying, Oh well, maybe I'll hit a HR the next at bat. If we go after players like Machado, Harper and Trout, we are only doomed to failure.


    The only way to win games is to score more runs than the other team and the way to do that is to keep putting men on base. Strikeouts kill the game


    Homers are great, strikeouts are not.


    Berra and Williams would still be superstars in todays game


    Andy
    Ted Williams had an uppercut swing, which is hat lung hitters are taught now. Itís a power swing, as opposed to the level, contact swing they used to teach. He also famously insisted on hitting directly into the shift rather than going the other way.

  16. #41

    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by poneil2321 View Post
    Agree that Berra and Williams would be superstars today. But they would have to adjust their hitting philosophies given the shifting and the fact every reliever throws 95+. This would inevitably lead to more strikeouts.

    That being said, I hate the Yankees "3 outcome" approach of HR, K, or BB. But I don't think Judge ascribes to that approach and I think he is a good "hitter" and as opposed to a guy who swings only to hit homers.

    I think Judge is just as passionate as O'Neil, Berra, etc. I don't see how outbursts of raw emotion help in baseball so what is the point of Judge slamming his bat when he strikes out.

    Is it really fair to say that the Yankees have "a 3 outcome approach?" Maybe they've just got a couple of youngsters--Torres, Sanchez--who lack discipline and swing for the fences too much... Stanton is a "3 outcome" guy. Hicks has evolved in that direction. I don't know. I'd have been much happier if, in 2018, the Yankees had hit fewer homeruns but hit for a much better average with RISP.

  17. #42

    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    so Cash got away with no questions asked about analytics? Hmm.....

  18. #43
    New Murderer's Row False1's Avatar
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    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    I would agree if he'd been able to show us consistently good production during that period when he was playing on arugula basis.
    Romaine is pretty good. He can throw, catch, endive. I hope this debate doesnít drive a wedge between the two.

  19. #44
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    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    Romaine is pretty good. He can throw, catch, endive. I hope this debate doesnít drive a wedge between the two.
    Oh, leaf it alone! He's a salad backup catcher. All the rest is just window dressing.

  20. #45
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    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Of course, if he doesn't produce, we may want to trade him for a Boston player.

  21. #46
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    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by -tz View Post
    Of course, if he doesn't produce, we may want to trade him for a Boston player.
    Lettuce pray that never happens.
    Do not fear, all we want to do is talk.

    Only words, and then your thoughts.

  22. #47
    The Best Ever ! jnewmark's Avatar
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    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    Lettuce pray that never happens.
    Great Caesar's salad !
    What we can appreciate now is that the Yankees from 1996-2003 were even more extraordinary than we thought.

  23. #48

    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    Lettuce pray that never happens.
    I slaw what you did there.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  24. #49

    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    Quote Originally Posted by -tz View Post
    Oh, leaf it alone! He's a salad backup catcher. All the rest is just window dressing.
    Is he Italian?

  25. #50
    Administrator Bub's Avatar
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    Re: Analytics and Cashman

    This thread needs croutons.
    Let the kids play.

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