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  1. #9776

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Errors do not tell the whole story.

    Across baseball, ground balls and line drives hit in the vicinity of third base played at a .232 average.
    Against the Yankees? .384

    And please stop saying he is learning the position. He has been playing third for 7 seasons of professional baseball. He just is not good at. As good as his bat is, the Yankees benched him in the playoffs because his defense is THAT BAD.

  2. #9777
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AllRise View Post
    Errors do not tell the whole story.

    Across baseball, ground balls and line drives hit in the vicinity of third base played at a .232 average.
    Against the Yankees? .384

    And please stop saying he is learning the position. He has been playing third for 7 seasons of professional baseball. He just is not good at. As good as his bat is, the Yankees benched him in the playoffs because his defense is THAT BAD.
    Exactly torres played 16 games at 2B base before coming up so you can use that excuse for him, andujar has started 421 at third before playing in the majors

  3. #9778
    Slow in, Fast out ThePinStripes's Avatar
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AllRise View Post
    Errors do not tell the whole story.

    Across baseball, ground balls and line drives hit in the vicinity of third base played at a .232 average.
    Against the Yankees?

    And please stop saying he is learning the position. He has been playing third for 7 seasons of professional baseball. He just is not good at. As good as his bat is, the Yankees benched him in the playoffs because his defense is THAT BAD.
    Okay, he's not that bad. He doesn't increase the chances of a hit (not getting on base, but hit) by 66% I'm guessing there is more to the story like more shifts or something.

    Missing on Eovoldi and Corbin was awful. He needed to land one of the two but it looks like budget is limited. He is limited to cost controlled pitchers.
    A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!

  4. #9779

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 1stbase View Post
    People try to defend defense with the "eye test" when they don't like what the metrics are telling them, how can anyone honestly say they watched andujar play last year and think he was even a passable defender? you're being a complete homer and lying through your teeth
    He WAS a passable defender last year. He wasn't a butcher. Agree there are better defensive 3rd baseman around, but I've seen butchers there, and miggy wasn't that. Truth be told, Sanchez was more of a butcher behind the plate than Miggy was at 3B. Calling me a liar works for you? Knock yourself out. Please!

  5. #9780

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AllRise View Post
    Errors do not tell the whole story.

    Across baseball, ground balls and line drives hit in the vicinity of third base played at a .232 average.
    Against the Yankees? .384

    And please stop saying he is learning the position. He has been playing third for 7 seasons of professional baseball. He just is not good at. As good as his bat is, the Yankees benched him in the playoffs because his defense is THAT BAD.
    His fielding %, while not elite, was adequate under the circumstances (rookie, not considered ready yet, new league w/new hitters, playing behind a new pitching staff, etc.). IMO, he wasn't as bad as people like you are making out. The Yankees didn't quite "bench" him in the playoffs either. Hechavarria came in as a defensive replacement for him in the wild card game and one of the ALDS games. Walker played 3rd in the concluding 4th game of the ALDS. If you consider that being benched, than Cora "benched" Rafael Devers several times in the ALDS in favor of Eduardo Nunez, a former Yankee who, if memory serves, wasn't deemed a good 3rd baseman either when he played here. Cora seemed real happy to have him. In time, maybe he'll be happy to have Miggy playing for him. I'd rather keep him here, but thanks anyway.

  6. #9781

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 1stbase View Post
    Exactly torres played 16 games at 2B base before coming up so you can use that excuse for him, andujar has started 421 at third before playing in the majors
    You can spin that anyway you'd like, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you can conclude from using Torres as an example that it validates your argument as it pertains to Andujar. Torres is a more fluid infielder, and probably has been playing middle infield his entire life. Andujar is not nearly as fluid or polished, and obviously needs more time to learn and adapt to the realities of playing 3B at the big league level. Perhaps in the bush leagues, the clubs he was on didn't shift as much leaving him all along on the left side, and I wonder how accurately the advanced defensive stats in this era are in reflecting how and to what degree defensive shifts impact defensive metrics for players generally and Andujar in this case specifically. IMO, these stats can sometimes obscure more than they enlighten. Yeah, he had a couple of rough games there, one memorably against the Red Sox in I think September that blew up on him, but for the most part, I still think he was ok there. IMO, he showed he was capable of adjusting and that he could potentially hold down the gig as a decent big league 3rd baseman. You disagree. That's why they play the game. Time will tell.

  7. #9782
    Yogi Buck
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Benefactor View Post
    Shouldn't the Yankees just trade Ellsbury and pay 90% of his contract to get the deal done? It's just money. Drop in the bucket.
    Is a backup cf'er who has the potential to be an all-star, if healthy, worth $2 mil per year?

    Look, the guy was hurt last year. He's not that bad a player when not hurt. He's not worth 20 something million, but he's better than Brett Gardner, who the Yankees just wasted $7.5 million on.

    I don't know insurance that well, but I would question if the policy would transfer from the Yankees to another club. I would guess it's probably their policy on him.

    Who's even gonna take a flier on him until spring training rolls around and he proves he is maybe healthy.

    If he's not healthy, due to the insurance, the Yankees aren't paying much of his salary anyway. I'm sure Habitat for HumaniHal is estatic with what that does to his budget.

    Right now, he is worth a roster spot to see if they can get some value. I understand that his mere presence is a bad reminder of a bad contract to some fans so they love to beat him up.
    [B]WARNING![/B] This post may be offensive to little girly men or women with soft feelings.

    Never [B]argue with an idiot[/B]. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

  8. #9783

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 1stbase View Post
    Please let's hear more about how andujar isn't a bad third baseman smh

    That chart only has meaning IF you can quantify where Miggy was positioned on each batted ball that went through that area. If Miggy was covering the area normally occupied by Didi due to the fact Didi was playing on the 2nd base side of the bag, or it was Miggy playing on the 2nd base side, doesn't matter for this argument, then the problem revealed in that chart is how the Yankee infield defense was aligned as a whole; not whether Miggy had lousy range. For that chart to have any value, you have to show what the Yankee infield defensive alignment was at the time of each batted ball. Have at it. Unless and until, the chart is chill, but meaningless.

  9. #9784

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by theM&Mboys View Post
    He WAS a passable defender last year. He wasn't a butcher. Agree there are better defensive 3rd baseman around, but I've seen butchers there, and miggy wasn't that. Truth be told, Sanchez was more of a butcher behind the plate than Miggy was at 3B. Calling me a liar works for you? Knock yourself out. Please!
    He wasnt a butcher because he can actually put the glove on the ball. But that doesnt mean he was good. Jeter wasnt a butcher but he was still a very bad shortstop for most of his last 10-12 years.
    Andujar is a bad fielder. Maybe the worst at his position..Nobody takes joy in that take but it is a fact.

  10. #9785
    Yogi Buck
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 1stbase View Post
    People try to defend defense with the "eye test" when they don't like what the metrics are telling them, how can anyone honestly say they watched andujar play last year and think he was even a passable defender? you're being a complete homer and lying through your teeth
    I'm not going to sit here and tell you that I sat all year and focused on Andujar's defense, not that you really could watching only on tv. But I have a hard time understanding how his range could be historically bad. I can see below average, but there have been a bunch of bad bad 3rd baseman. So I was trying to brainstorm how that COULD be possible.

    He could just be the worst athletic 3rd baseman of all-time with historically slow reaction times and stiffness side to side. That doesn't sound like a great outfield prospect. Watching him round the bases, he doesn't APPEAR to be THAT BAD of an athlete. IF this is the culprit, there pretty much is no fix, move him to DH and 1b and just let him rake.

    Playing up on the grass. Baseball has given up on the bunt. Very few 3B crowd up on the grass like they used to. Especially with the exit velocity explosion. Obviously, the closer you are to the batter, the less reaction time you are going to have, the less range you are going to have. Again, I didn't pay that much attention, but if you have an erratic arm, one sure way to reduce the risk is to play closer to the grass and shorten the throw to 1b. Also, some guys just can't handle the difference from the ball bouncing on the grass than transitioning to the clay, so they play up to get the grass hop. I have no idea if this is the case, but my guess this could be a culprit. If this is the case, you could see some improvement over the course of his career, but if not, the logical step would be to move him to 1b where the arm plays down and the issue goes away.

    Exit velocity explosion. Heck, I don't even know if this is true. But the guys are massive, they are trying to hit home runs and the balls in play are more often rockets than compared to days in the past. Explains the historical nature of his poor zone rating, but not against his peers of today. Again, I have no proof to this hypothesis. Not going to change anytime soon.

    A bad SS vs a great SS. I'm sure Ken Oberkfell's zone rating was helped by having Ozzie Smith to his left grabbing balls no other human would snag. I don't know how Didi's zone ranking ranks and don't care to look it up.

    Doubles defense. I've always hated double's defense where the 3b plays so close to the line that you can taste chalk. Again, you can't see a whole lot on tv. I don't know if the Yankees employ this defense at all or if they would do it so much more than anyone else to affect a zone rating.

    Defensive shifts/alignments. Much more common now than even just 5 years ago. If the 3b is playing SS and the hitter dribbles one through the empty 3b hole, how is that calculated. I couldn't tell ya. It could be that Andujar is bad for this era, but its not fair to compare zone ratings to guys from 10 years ago, when a 3b was actually standing near 3b when a dribbler came his way.

    I'm curious to see other folks thoughts on this. I have no idea how Bob Horner's or even Graig Nettles (one of my all time favs) zone ratings would compare with players of today. But when you think of some of the yanks 3b over the past couple decades, Brosius, Boggs, Hayes, superior athleticism don't scream at ya. A-rod and Boone, moreso.

    Curious if anyone followed Andujar's positioning very closely all year. Also, is there a stat that measures average distance from home plate for a 3b. In my mind, the only logical explanation of a historically low zone rating would have to be positioning. Now it is most likely his positioning is dictated by his weaknesses rather than specialty defenses.
    [B]WARNING![/B] This post may be offensive to little girly men or women with soft feelings.

    Never [B]argue with an idiot[/B]. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

  11. #9786

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    He is terrible at a bunch of defensive components but the main problem is just lack of side to side movement and I don’t see how that can improve 750 games into his professional career. Again, he pretty clearly seemed to be getting worse at the end of the season, not better. We’d all love if he were at least adequate there, but that doesn’t seem possible.

  12. #9787

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Supposedly Bauer will only sign 1 year deals when he reaches free agency due to a bet he made with his best friend. Otherwise his friend can shoot him in the groin with a paintball gun 10ft away.

  13. #9788

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by theM&Mboys View Post
    They're loaded in the infield and thin in the outfield. He's demonstrated that he can hit, run, and catch the ball; really. You can look it up.
    Doesn't mean he could play the OF skillfully. Can we just drop the idea that a team like Cleveland looking for OF help would trade for a 3rd baseman, and hope he would transition to OF. It's just not at all likely that would happen.

  14. #9789
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Maybe there could be an Andujar thread where people have the silly discussion of defending his defense and offending his defense.

    This thread would be better served for discussions of trades and signings and the potential of such.
    Do not fear, all we want to do is talk.

    Only words, and then your thoughts.

  15. #9790

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    Maybe there could be an Andujar thread where people have the silly discussion of defending his defense and offending his defense.

    This thread would be better served for discussions of trades and signings and the potential of such.
    This!

  16. #9791

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    Maybe there could be an Andujar thread where people have the silly discussion of defending his defense and offending his defense.

    This thread would be better served for discussions of trades and signings and the potential of such.
    I agree it might be better served in an Andujar thread but his defense does influence the possibility/necessity of deals, and discussing defensive positioning of him in the future will also impact potential deals. I don't see discussing his atrocious defense as silly.
    Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. ~ Dale Carnegie

  17. #9792

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    Maybe there could be an Andujar thread where people have the silly discussion of defending his defense and offending his defense.

    This thread would be better served for discussions of trades and signings and the potential of such.
    yes please

  18. #9793

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeter99 View Post
    What a terrible post. I'm sure you have a plenty of evidence from all of the times you've hung around and talked with Machado. Good lord.
    He intentionally tries to injure players on the field. He is a SCUMBAG

  19. #9794

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman89 View Post
    That only thing that is a POS is the garbage like this that you post here.
    He intentionally tries to injure players on the field. IF you like that, thats on you. I hope the Yankees want nothing of it. He also said he isnt Johnny Hustle... Its not hard to put 2 and 2 together. He will be a cancer in the locker room.

  20. #9795

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    Maybe there could be an Andujar thread where people have the silly discussion of defending his defense and offending his defense.

    This thread would be better served for discussions of trades and signings and the potential of such.
    Agreed. And this way they can discuss trades and signings and the potential of such in the Andujar thread.

  21. #9796

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CyYoung4Vazquez View Post
    Hold on. There are people that understand the game of baseball that prefer to have Aaron Hicks over Bryce Harper? Huh
    We have enough of the same profile guy as hicks. Low average, good OBP types. Need more average/guys who will drive in runs without hitting home runs. Offense can feel to all or nothing at times. Maximize Hicks value. Harper is a better hitter and it isn’t close (Fact). Fielding stats overrated (opinion)

    The andujar stuff is just a circular beating a dead horse thing that’s been discussed a million times
    Baseball games are not won with a formula. If you can hit, they will find a place for you

  22. #9797

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    Maybe there could be an Andujar thread where people have the silly discussion of defending his defense and offending his defense.

    This thread would be better served for discussions of trades and signings and the potential of such.
    i dont spend as much time on this site as some of you do, so these are real questions - is there a thread already made where we can continue this discussion without upsetting someone? i just looked and didn't see one.
    also - do these threads have a limit of any sort? if so, i agree - we should stick to topic as closely as possible. but if there is no limit, is a logical tangent of the hot stove discussion (whether or not a player fits into team plans at a particular position) such a bad thing? if you find this discussion tiresome it is pretty easy to recognize what a post is about with one quick glance and keep scrolling, no?

  23. #9798

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by AllRise View Post
    i dont spend as much time on this site as some of you do, so these are real questions - is there a thread already made where we can continue this discussion without upsetting someone? i just looked and didn't see one.
    also - do these threads have a limit of any sort? if so, i agree - we should stick to topic as closely as possible. but if there is no limit, is a logical tangent of the hot stove discussion (whether or not a player fits into team plans at a particular position) such a bad thing? if you find this discussion tiresome it is pretty easy to recognize what a post is about with one quick glance and keep scrolling, no?
    There’s a player performance section that should be utilized for topics like this.

  24. #9799

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Hopefully the Winter Meetings will bring this thread back on topic.

    I really have a theory (perhaps wishful thinking) that Machado is a smokescreen and Harper is the real target for Cashman. Again a theory. Based on nothing at all but just a sense from how the Machado thing has been so visible and there has been radio silence on Harper.
    I'm too smooth you'll never see me comin', I'm never in a hurry I'm just movin' fast...

  25. #9800

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NewEraYanks2527 View Post
    Hopefully the Winter Meetings will bring this thread back on topic.

    I really have a theory (perhaps wishful thinking) that Machado is a smokescreen and Harper is the real target for Cashman. Again a theory. Based on nothing at all but just a sense from how the Machado thing has been so visible and there has been radio silence on Harper.
    See Corbin

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