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  1. #27026

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    Don't agree. A 8yr deal for a 26 yr old superstar would be DOPE.

    That's a deal that ends when he's around 34 yrs old. Cano's deal ends when he's 40. Pujols deal ends when he's 41. Arod 2nd deal when he's 41. Miguel Cabrera 40-42. Those are the types of long term deals that end poorly. Not this one. That's an important distinction being lost here.
    Definitely agree here. And players that hit FA at age 26 are the best in the game, since it means they entered the BIGs age 19-20... Vlad Guerrero Jr will be in the same boat.
    The Continuance of Being Great, is Getting Number Twenty-Eight

  2. #27027
    New Murderer's Row False1's Avatar
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    Even with having these leadership roles filled, I'm still hoping the plan is to rest both players regularly. I'll be disappointed if Gardner gets more than 350 PAs and if CC gets more than 20 starts.
    I can understand the former, not so much the latter.

    CC has been very consistent the last two years. Unless he falls off a cliff, I'd be fine with the 28 starts and 121 ERA+ he's put up.

    If he struggles, then yes I hope they don't keep trotting him out if they have other internal options that can perform better... but let's see if he can defy time for one more season.

    My issue isn't the # of starts. Barring a huge dropoff he'd be an exceptional #5 starter on a one year deal. The issues are that sometimes they rely on him as more than a #5, and that his IP/GS is a bit taxing on the bullpen.

  3. #27028
    New Murderer's Row False1's Avatar
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BabyBombers View Post
    Definitely agree here. And players that hit FA at age 26 are the best in the game, since it means they entered the BIGs age 19-20... Vlad Guerrero Jr will be in the same boat.
    Right... you get 2 or 3 MORE years of prime, peak production, and you get 2 or 3 LESS years of post-peak.

    These are the guys you go after, and unless someone just blows the market up you don't let them slip through your fingers.

  4. #27029

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Imagine Hal looking the fans in the face and saying, sorry we signed CC and Gardner, we can't afford Bryce Harper or Manny Machado for 8 years with them hitting FA and probably opting out before they are 34.. He couldn't say that with a straight face and not by boo'd off the stage.

  5. #27030

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Front loaded 8 year deal with an opt out after 3 or 4 years.

    See if Harper bites on that.

  6. #27031
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by yank4life2005 View Post
    Front loaded 8 year deal with an opt out after 3 or 4 years.

    See if Harper bites on that.
    Iíve been beating this drum all offseason. Same for Machado.
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  7. #27032

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankyfan View Post
    Yep, both would be looked at as stop gaps But isn't that what you except in AAA? I think if anything needing a replacement at 3rd would be filled by DJL...Holder is an invite to ST so as far as his being over matched issue goes, I think they view him as a glove man above all else at this point. If he produces it would be a bonus...


    https://nypost.com/2019/02/09/yankee...spect-decline/

    Just saw this ...I guess Oppy has high hopes for KH bat as well...
    They didnít protect Holder from rule 5 and he didnít get taken. That probably tells you that while his glove could play in the majors today itís not enough. I like Holder though, I think weíll see him at some point I just donít think even with a lot injuries itís likely before September. Heís a 2020 player not a 2019 one. Iím much more curious to see what Thairo Estrada does this year a year removed from being shot. Hopefully he gets back on track if so I think he jumps Wade and other infielders pretty quickly.

    I still want some more AAA depth though, too many ABs last year for Shane Robinson and Jace Peterson. We donít have the same depth we did last year.

  8. #27033
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    Don't agree. A 8yr deal for a 26 yr old superstar would be DOPE.

    That's a deal that ends when he's around 34 yrs old. Cano's deal ends when he's 40. Pujols deal ends when he's 41. Arod 2nd deal when he's 41. Miguel Cabrera 40-42. Those are the types of long term deals that end poorly. Not this one. That's an important distinction being lost here.
    And why would a player want a deal that ends at age 34? Wouldn't they rather have a deal that potentially ends at age say...30?

    Players want a 10 year deal for security through their potential declining years...but if they aren't getting their 'security' with a 10 yr deal, their ability to re-sell themselves at age 30 is better than at age 34.

    IMO they're either taking a 10 yr deal, or one shorter than 7-8 years...like 3-4 yrs....unless the 7-8 yr deal includes a player out at 3-4 yrs, which is fine by me. But as the team, I'd insist that the out at 3-4 yrs had a team option too.

  9. #27034
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenwave81 View Post
    And why would a player want a deal that ends at age 34? Wouldn't they rather have a deal that potentially ends at age say...30?

    Players want a 10 year deal for security through their potential declining years...but if they aren't getting their 'security' with a 10 yr deal, their ability to re-sell themselves at age 30 is better than at age 34.

    IMO they're either taking a 10 yr deal, or one shorter than 7-8 years...like 3-4 yrs....unless the 7-8 yr deal includes a player out at 3-4 yrs, which is fine by me. But as the team, I'd insist that the out at 3-4 yrs had a team option too.
    Youíre forgetting about opt-outs

  10. #27035
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenwave81 View Post
    And why would a player want a deal that ends at age 34?
    Because these are the reported offers on the table? I'm sure a player would prefer a 15 yr deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenwave81 View Post
    Wouldn't they rather have a deal that potentially ends at age say...30?

    Players want a 10 year deal for security through their potential declining years...but if they aren't getting their 'security' with a 10 yr deal, their ability to re-sell themselves at age 30 is better than at age 34.

    IMO they're either taking a 10 yr deal, or one shorter than 7-8 years...like 3-4 yrs....unless the 7-8 yr deal includes a player out at 3-4 yrs, which is fine by me. But as the team, I'd insist that the out at 3-4 yrs had a team option too.
    All these deals will likely have a player opt out. You can insist it has a team opt out, but I highly doubt you'd win the player's services with that.
    Calmer than you are

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  11. #27036
    Slow in, Fast out ThePinStripes's Avatar
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenwave81 View Post
    And why would a player want a deal that ends at age 34? Wouldn't they rather have a deal that potentially ends at age say...30?

    Players want a 10 year deal for security through their potential declining years...but if they aren't getting their 'security' with a 10 yr deal, their ability to re-sell themselves at age 30 is better than at age 34.

    IMO they're either taking a 10 yr deal, or one shorter than 7-8 years...like 3-4 yrs....unless the 7-8 yr deal includes a player out at 3-4 yrs, which is fine by me. But as the team, I'd insist that the out at 3-4 yrs had a team option too.
    This makes no sense. Even if he took a 4 deal so he hits FA again at an earlier age (30), what makes you think a team will give him a 6 year deal at age 30 when he couldn't get a 10 year deal at age 26? He'd be lucky to get another 4 year deal, and I'd be the two four year deals would total about what he's getting now, but with a lot more risk (injury and performance).
    A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!

  12. #27037
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    CC has been very consistent the last two years. Unless he falls off a cliff, I'd be fine with the 28 starts and 121 ERA+ he's put up.

    If he struggles, then yes I hope they don't keep trotting him out if they have other internal options that can perform better... but let's see if he can defy time for one more season.

    My issue isn't the # of starts. Barring a huge dropoff he'd be an exceptional #5 starter on a one year deal. The issues are that sometimes they rely on him as more than a #5, and that his IP/GS is a bit taxing on the bullpen.
    Perhaps the plan is if/when Jordan Montgomery is ready to come back (Aug?) it will give Boone the opportunity to let all his starters get an extra day's rest for the last couple of months for the season. Just depends on what kind of lead the team has over the Red Sox. Hopefully the divisional race is just about over by Sept. 1
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  13. #27038

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Its really disappointing and unlucky we lost Didi and Monty most of 2019 from last year...
    The Continuance of Being Great, is Getting Number Twenty-Eight

  14. #27039
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinStripes View Post
    This makes no sense. Even if he took a 4 deal so he hits FA again at an earlier age (30), what makes you think a team will give him a 6 year deal at age 30 when he couldn't get a 10 year deal at age 26? He'd be lucky to get another 4 year deal, and I'd be the two four year deals would total about what he's getting now, but with a lot more risk (injury and performance).
    Creative thinking regarding opt-outs will be necessary. If you want the player to opt out after years 2-4, my suggestion would be to pay a higher AAV those first 2-4 seasons, & make it to the player's advantage to opt out. For example: $35M through season 4, then $25M for seasons 5-8, for a total of $240M with a $30M AAV in total. An offer that should be considered.

    If the player thinks he can get more than $35M AAV during yrs 2-4, or more than $25M AAV 4yrs after that, he'll willingly opt out. The new CBA will come into play, and more teams will have shed some albatross-type contracts during these next few years.

    A superstar player that's 28-30 years old should still be able to get at least another 4yr deal (this time for guaranteed money), perhaps even longer.
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  15. #27040

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84 View Post
    Youíre forgetting about opt-outs
    Yeah, a player wants as many high paying guaranteed years as possible. Itís not that complicated. No way these guys sign a deal with zero opt outs unless the deal blows them away.

  16. #27041

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    Perhaps the plan is if/when Jordan Montgomery is ready to come back (Aug?) it will give Boone the opportunity to let all his starters get an extra day's rest for the last couple of months for the season. Just depends on what kind of lead the team has over the Red Sox. Hopefully the divisional race is just about over by Sept. 1
    Makes a lot of sense. Last year, Severino was pitching mostly every 6th day in the first half of the season because of all the off days in the spring. His slump coincided with the schedule demanding starts every 5th day from a 5 man rotation.

  17. #27042
    2009 WORLD CHAMPIONS aeromac76's Avatar
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Makes a lot of sense. Last year, Severino was pitching mostly every 6th day in the first half of the season because of all the off days in the spring. His slump coincided with the schedule demanding starts every 5th day from a 5 man rotation.

    Certainly not going to argue the benefits of rest when the dog days hit, but I actually believe his slump was almost entirely related to pitch tipping..
    I used to think I was crazy... Now I am sure of it..

  18. #27043

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by aeromac76 View Post
    Certainly not going to argue the benefits of rest when the dog days hit, but I actually believe his slump was almost entirely related to pitch tipping..
    It didn't seem like his slider had the same bite on it and his fastball (while still at high velocity) appeared to have less movement. I kind of think it was a combination of mechanical and possibly a tired arm. Yeah, and possibly tipping.
    Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. ~ Dale Carnegie

  19. #27044

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fredgmuggs View Post
    It didn't seem like his slider had the same bite on it and his fastball (while still at high velocity) appeared to have less movement. I kind of think it was a combination of mechanical and possibly a tired arm. Yeah, and possibly tipping.
    Still drives me crazy that if it's tipping, the entire league was on to it for half a season and the Yankees staff wasn't.

  20. #27045
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixwell View Post
    Still drives me crazy that if it's tipping, the entire league was on to it for half a season and the Yankees staff wasn't.
    Don't worry Pajama Larry is back for another season of leisure.
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  21. #27046
    Administrator Bub's Avatar
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    Don't worry Pajama Larry is back for another season of leisure.
    HA! Leisure Suit Larry! Wonder how many here remember that?
    Let the kids play.

  22. #27047
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinStripes View Post
    This makes no sense. Even if he took a 4 deal so he hits FA again at an earlier age (30), what makes you think a team will give him a 6 year deal at age 30 when he couldn't get a 10 year deal at age 26? He'd be lucky to get another 4 year deal, and I'd be the two four year deals would total about what he's getting now, but with a lot more risk (injury and performance).
    If the Giants are serious about a lucrative short term offer to Harper - 2 years $78mil. Heíll be a FA again at 28. Might work.
    White Sox should try that for Machado too.

  23. #27048
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    I can understand the former, not so much the latter.

    CC has been very consistent the last two years. Unless he falls off a cliff, I'd be fine with the 28 starts and 121 ERA+ he's put up.

    If he struggles, then yes I hope they don't keep trotting him out if they have other internal options that can perform better... but let's see if he can defy time for one more season.

    My issue isn't the # of starts. Barring a huge dropoff he'd be an exceptional #5 starter on a one year deal. The issues are that sometimes they rely on him as more than a #5, and that his IP/GS is a bit taxing on the bullpen.
    Right. I wanted Happ to replace CC and sign Corbin but really don't have a problem signing him. It's not the starts but the quality starts. After watching last year I feel it is critical Boone doesn't try to have him finish the inning or after the 3rd round. He is not the horse he was 5 years ago. He will probably tax our pen and is why I am happy to see German in the proposed pen. (Cessa may be there too because he is out of options)

    https://www.fangraphs.com/statsplits...=P&season=2018

  24. #27049

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Who else here is mad at Duquette (and myself for getting sucked in) for kindling an irrational small amount of hope that the Yankees actually still have that offer on the table for Machado.

    http://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/n...o1tkemyvhz10sd

  25. #27050
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fredgmuggs View Post
    It didn't seem like his slider had the same bite on it and his fastball (while still at high velocity) appeared to have less movement. I kind of think it was a combination of mechanical and possibly a tired arm. Yeah, and possibly tipping.
    Agreed. It's a combination of things, not just tip pitching. Hitters can hit straight fastballs with velocity. He needs a cutter in the worst way.

    I still can't get over the fact the whole staff was brought back another season.
    Calmer than you are

    7/30/2017: The day the Minnesota Twins bought a prospect from the New York Yankees.

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