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  1. #5251
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    For planning purposes:

    A Sonny Gray/Tyler Wade & pick one: German or Loaisiga for Scooter Gannett deal has my vote of approval.

    Need two starting pitchers. IMO, an ace and a #3/#4 type. Sure would like to take some pressure/(innings) off of Severino by slotting him in as a #2. A moderate-risk, high-reward ace like Kluber isn't usually available and he may be worth giving up some real talent for. Another lefty starter would slot in nicely @ #3.

    Need at least one experienced high-level reliever for the bullpen. A really good multi-inning
    workhorse would also be a welcome addition. Don't want more than a 7-man bullpen.

    The plan for 2019 shouldn't include Didi. Can't be sure when or how good he'll be if he comes back.

    100 starts in LF for Stanton with Gardner & Frazier (@Scranton) as 4/5 OFers??

    Is Voit/Bird (@ Scranton) the way to go @ 1B?

    Andujar starts @ 3rd and Sanchez is the 120-game catcher.

    Versatility in the lineup (LH vs. RH bats) and in the infield is needed - Marwan Gonzalez should be #1 target. This guy already is the professional version of what they want Tyler Wade to be. If there's only 4 guys on the bench, Gardner/Gonzalez/Torreyes/Romine should be the four, IMO.
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  2. #5252

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Flat Ronnie View Post
    It actually all comes down to Andujar. Will they keep him or move him for SP.
    I disagree it has much to do with Torres staying at 2nd base.

  3. #5253
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    If anything, wouldn’t Kluber losing velocity but still finishing in the top-3 voting for CY this year bode well for him? It shows that he’s already adjusted to pitching with diminished stuff, and not just pitching well, but borderline dominating

    Just goes to show he’s not overly reliant on his velo and is a good bet to continue performing at a high level going forward... straight out of the Halladay/ Cliff Lee book of elite pitching with excellent command and movement on pitches
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  4. #5254
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post
    ^^ This guy totallly gets it. I’d give up anyone in the farm system but definitely not Andujar unless you’re getting an equally cost-controlled, young TOR starter.
    If the Ray's offered us Snell it would be different. But that is not happening. Go with Corbin and Happ. If MadBum has an ace season for the Giants than sign him as a free agent after 2019.

  5. #5255
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by flymick24 View Post
    If anything, wouldn’t Kluber losing velocity but still finishing in the top-3 voting for CY this year bode well for him? It shows that he’s already adjusted to pitching with diminished stuff, and not just pitching well, but borderline dominating

    Just goes to show he’s not overly reliant on his velo and is a good bet to continue performing at a high level going forward... straight out of the Halladay/ Cliff Lee book of elite pitching with excellent command and movement on pitches
    So you expect Kluber to be an ace when he turns 35 & 36?

  6. #5256
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    I agree with you that Trout is the best player in baseball and that an average year for him is a great year for anyone else. Right now I would put him as the 2nd best CFer is baseball history right behind Mays and just ahead of Mantle. That could change depending on how his career progresses.

    What I don’t understand is your outrage at Mookie getting the MVP. He didn’t just have an above average year, he had a fantastic year. He led the league in Runs Created, which is the most comprehensive measure of offense. He won the batting title. And he did it not only for the best team in baseball but for one that had an historic season. In contrast, the Angels were still in contention for a playoff spot late in the season but they faded. Here are some of Mookie’s numbers:

    1st - Runs Created (156)
    1st - Batting (.346)
    1st - wOBA (.449)
    1st - Slugging (.640)
    1st - Runs (129)
    1st - Extra Base Hits (84)
    1st - bWAR (10.9)
    1st - fWAR (10.4)
    2nd - WRC+ (185)
    2nd - OBP (.438)
    2nd - OPS (1.078)
    2nd - OPS+ (186)
    2nd - Doubles (47)

    That is a dominant season. Certainly a good argument can be made for Trout, which is why he was Mookie’s chief competition. A good argument can be made for Martinez as well. If any one of the three got the award, it would hardly be a joke. Mookie would have gotten my vote if I had one.

    BTW, Mookie’s performance in the playoffs is irrelevant to the MVP question. If it were, anything he did there would be more than Trout.
    I am not outraged and expected this because Mookie did have a great season. Like Pedroria I don't know how he did it. I read some strange article the BoSox tested him for a reaction time and Mookie was the highest score ever. (5th round draft pick) I even posted he was getting the MVP earlier that day when I was posting how we get SO with 2 strikes. I only just agreed with the post I replied to that Trout always has a great year (we agree there). I did look up some stats on Trout with Fangraph and the wRC+ and OBP was 1st to Betts but that's cherry picking.

    I thought Betts would get it and he did. (Mantle was my idol growing up and watched him play at Yankee stadium. I would love to see Judge in CF.)

    edit. Reread my post. I was just agreeing with the earlier post by abo-4-lyfe (?) about Trout and you are right I did say "above average year" is maybe off a little and it's probably because he's with Boston. Thank you for the stats and Mookie did have a fantastic year.
    Last edited by bucky; Today at 03:13 PM. Reason: update

  7. #5257
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ymike673 View Post
    So you expect Kluber to be an ace when he turns 35 & 36?
    Soon-to-be 36yr old Justin Verlander says "it's possible!"
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  8. #5258

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bucky View Post
    I am not outraged and expected this because Mookie did have a great season. Like Pedroria I don't know how he did it. I read some strange article the BoSox tested him for a reaction time and Mookie was the highest score ever. (5th round draft pick) I even posted he was getting the MVP earlier that day when I was posting how we get SO with 2 strikes. I only just agreed with the post I replied to that Trout always has a great year (we agree there). I did look up some stats on Trout with Fangraph and the wRC+ and OBP was 1st to Betts but that's cherry picking.

    I thought Betts would get it and he did. (Mantle was my idol growing up and watched him play at Yankee stadium. I would love to see Judge in CF.)
    Bucky, by chance were you the starting catcher on the NJC team back in 1967/1968.

  9. #5259

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    Soon-to-be 36yr old Justin Verlander says "it's possible!"
    Verlander still throws gas.

  10. #5260
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BUZZARDS BAY View Post
    Verlander still throws gas.
    Are you saying Kluber is not comparable to Verlander because he doesn't throw gas?

    I'm defining a Yankee ace as someone a bit more dependable than Luis Severino. I think Kluber can be that guy for the next couple of seasons, at ages 33-35.
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  11. #5261
    ↓ Sign this guy, Hal ↓ Zimmer's Helmet's Avatar
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post

    Yes, Kluber is older but I envision a Mussina-like evolution for him, only better.

    And if Kluber can be had with Andujar bearing the brunt of the acquisition cost, and they backfill 3B with Machado, you've just massively upgraded your roster for several years without depleting your farm system.
    If you envision a Mussina-like evolution, then it serves to validate that this will not be a good deal for the Yankees. I realize that time can sometimes gloss over how we remember things, but the fact is that Mussina was actually mediocre to bad after his age 33 season. He only bounced back for one good season during his final year when he reinvented himself.

    So basically, what you’re proposing will increase payroll by roughly $45 million and all you’ve done is acquire an aging starting pitcher with major question marks and a talented but lazy 3B who has already established that he will not hustle no matter how big the spotlight or important the game. And in the process, you’d be relinquishing an excellent cost-controlled hitter.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  12. #5262
    Word of the Year is Complicit ojo's Avatar
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post
    If you envision a Mussina-like evolution, then it serves to validate that this will not be a good deal for the Yankees. I realize that time can sometimes gloss over how we remember things, but the fact is that Mussina was actually mediocre to bad after his age 33 season. He only bounced back for one good season during his final year when he reinvented himself.

    So basically, what you’re proposing will increase payroll by roughly $45 million and all you’ve done is acquire an aging starting pitcher with major question marks and a talented but lazy 3B who has already established that he will not hustle no matter how big the spotlight or important the game. And in the process, you’d be relinquishing an excellent cost-controlled hitter.
    Moose's FIPs from age 33 on:

    3.64, 3.09, 3.95, 4.01, 3.46, 4.01 and 3.32.

    He was better than you're giving him credit for. It's not his fault Jeter stunk at SS.
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  13. #5263

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    Are you saying Kluber is not comparable to Verlander because he doesn't throw gas?

    I'm defining a Yankee ace as someone a bit more dependable than Luis Severino. I think Kluber can be that guy for the next couple of seasons, at ages 33-35.
    Exactly. You can get away with mistakes with giddy up that you can't with softer stuff.
    Don't know if he can be effective. Some make the transition some do not.

  14. #5264

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    When he's still pitching well in 3 years that remain.. people will see
    .

  15. #5265
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ojo View Post
    Moose's FIPs from age 33 on:

    3.64, 3.09, 3.95, 4.01, 3.46, 4.01 and 3.32.

    He was better than you're giving him credit for. It's not his fault Jeter stunk at SS.
    And his ERA was over 4.40 in 3 seasons after his age 34 season. Pitched like a #4-5 starter at best. Hardly a convincing argument for trading Andujar in exchange for Kluber...
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  16. #5266

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Get Harper, Corbin, Happ, and Murphy and call it an offseason.
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  17. #5267
    New Murderer's Row False1's Avatar
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post
    If you envision a Mussina-like evolution, then it serves to validate that this will not be a good deal for the Yankees. I realize that time can sometimes gloss over how we remember things, but the fact is that Mussina was actually mediocre to bad after his age 33 season. He only bounced back for one good season during his final year when he reinvented himself.

    So basically, what you’re proposing will increase payroll by roughly $45 million and all you’ve done is acquire an aging starting pitcher with major question marks and a talented but lazy 3B who has already established that he will not hustle no matter how big the spotlight or important the game. And in the process, you’d be relinquishing an excellent cost-controlled hitter.
    Perhaps you missed the "but better" qualifier in that comment. Kluber is a better pitcher now than Mussina was at this point of his career (or at any point, frankly) so with that higher baseline and the evidence that his performance isn't cratering as he adds innings to his arm I'd sign up for that in a second.

    And, we keep talking about Kluber's "diminished velocity." Mussina went from throwing mid-90's to upper 80's to mid-80's. Kluber's fastball has gone from roughly 93 to 92. And Kluber has an effective cutter.

    The analogy I was making is that, like Mussina, I expect Kluber to be able to adjust if and when his fastball velocity becomes a concern. It certainly wasn't last year - fastball was very effective for him. Cutter even more so.

    Also, remember we're talking about 3 years here (with two of those being valuable team options), so using Mussina's stats up to his age 39 season is apples and oranges. For Mussina's first three seasons as a Yankee at a similar age (when Mussina had logged over 700 more IP than Kluber), he put up a 3.21 FIP.

  18. #5268
    NYYF Triple Crown

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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    interesting...

    https://weei.radio.com/blogs/rob-bra...ed-sox-are-mix

    So will this force Cashmans hand?
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  19. #5269

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by albo4lyfe View Post
    Agreed with most here. Mookie had a season for the ages. If I had a vote, I'd give it to Mookie as well. I think it would've been a travesty if Martinez won it though. A DH? After the seasons that Betts, Trout, Ramirez, and Lindor had? L to the no.

    My beef is with calling Betts the best player in baseball and discounting just how special Trout is. Trout may be too good for his own good. People just aren't moved by his numbers anymore because he puts them up every single year, whereas guys like Harper and Betts put up a tremendous season and people start losing their minds over them. It's laughable. The man is in the top 150 in career WAR...at 27 years old.
    Completely agree with you. Trout is the best player in baseball, an all time great.

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