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  1. #301
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jesterno2 View Post
    This is basically the perfect storm off-season and I'm all for going Evil Empire mode, but obviously in a smart manner like we did in 2009 with great fits to address our biggest areas of need - TOR pitching, IF defense, and lineup balance with a focus on more OBP. We have one of the deepest farm systems in baseball, a stud young core to build around, and now we've reset our luxury tax bill.

    Harper, LF:
    I'm all for it. Stick his almost .400 OBP in the leadoff spot in front of the big bats and his production should match that of the Betts/Springer/Lindor leadoff guys the other contenders are rolling out, and with plenty of pop

    Machado:
    Sell him on the vision for both the club's dynasty outlook and his potential future HOF status as one of the greatest 3B of all time. Talents like this don't become available at his age but maybe once in a generation, so make it happen. He would also free us up to make the next painful move...

    MadBum, #1:
    Back up the truck for him. The Giants will more than likely go rebuild mode with the new regime and how badly that roster is constructed. I don't want to trade Andy but a TOR guy like MadBum is what puts us over the top. Take on Belt's salary with him as a utility guy if need be and offer a godfather package of Andy, Sheffield, Holder and their choice of 2 of Frazier/Wade/Acevedo/Abreu/Sauer/Adams/Estrada. If they demand Florial as part of the trade I'd push back but would ultimately include him if it gets it done. That package absolutely beats anything that other aces have netted in recent years.

    Corbin, #3:
    Kind of a no-brainer, although I wouldn't go crazy with the contract given he's 30 and not a long track record but get him

    Keuchel or Happ, #5:
    Keuchel very likely won't be back with the Astros and his ground ball style should play well in YS, especially if we improve the IF defense. Obviously not a big payday but I'd love his grit here. If not him I'm fine bringing back Happ, who's proven he can pitch in the AL East and handle NY, and we'll have Monty in the wings coming back from his TJ surgery for either of these guys to mentor

    Votto, 1B:
    My sneaky Cashman ninja move of the off-season. His OBP numbers are still insane and I think he'd bring a fiery attitude here like Paul O'Neill did when we got him from the Reds. Holiday and Frazier's voices were instrumental in shaping these kids last year and I feel like we've been missing that this year. I think Votto could bring that back to the locker room. Figure a favorable salary-dump exchange for them (Ellsbury?), offer some change-of-scenery guys like Bird and Sonny, throw in some stud middle tier pitching prospects, and maybe even consider picking up Hamilton as a LIDR/PR off the bench as part of the deal. #freevotto
    (if they ask for a legit package or players/prospects I'd be willing to do something legit to get him, but with his contract and age I just don't think it would require that, for the record)

    Britton, Set-up:
    Bring him back

    Robertson, Set-up:
    Bring him back if the price is right, but if it's him vs any of the other pieces here I'll be sad to see him go

    Hicks, CF:
    Extend him

    Didi, SS:
    Extend him. No way we should be letting him go with the defense and leadership he brings, and he can occasionally even carry the team with his bat as he did in April

    CC, advisor:
    He's been worth his crazy contract and I'd love to keep him in the fold, but it's time to move on from him as a player. If he really wants to pitch let him try to find a job somewhere else, but if no one comes knocking maybe he could take a special advisor role with our pitchers

    Gardner:
    Same as CC but without the advisor role stuff. Thanks for the years of service Brett!

    Sonny:
    Gone by whatever means necessary



    MadBum
    Sevy
    Corbin
    Tanaka
    Keuchel/Happ

    Chapman
    Betances
    Britton
    Robertson?
    Green
    Tarpley
    Lynn/kids

    Harper
    Judge
    Votto
    Machado
    Hicks
    Stanton
    Didi
    Sanchez
    Gleyber

    Belt/Voit
    Torreyes/Hechavarria
    Romine
    Hamilton?
    Ahh. The $275-$300 million dollar payroll. I am sure Hal is all in favor...........

  2. #302

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMuntz View Post
    Why can't they do both? They can sign Machado and Corbin while also exploring trades for starting pitching. Regardless, adding a 140 wRC+ bat while dramatically improving our 3B defense would certainly not "cede the division to Boston".
    The thought of signing Corbin to a lucrative free-agent contract scares me.

    We’re talking about a guy who has largely pitched like a #3-4 pitcher throughout his career and suddenly had a career season at age 29. Color me deeply skeptical.

    I’d much rather put together a blockbuster deal for Bumgarner. And yes, I do expect the Giants will make him available this winter.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  3. #303
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post
    The thought of signing Corbin to a lucrative free-agent contract scares me.

    We’re talking about a guy who has largely pitched like a #3-4 pitcher throughout his career and suddenly had a career season at age 29. Color me deeply skeptical.

    I’d much rather put together a blockbuster deal for Bumgarner. And yes, I do expect the Giants will make him available this winter.
    That's a fair concern. My point was simply that it is possible to upgrade the offense/defense and pitching simultaneously. They don't necessarily need to choose one or the other.
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  4. #304

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Believe it or not the Yankees could add pitching and a hitter. This isn't an either-or. So "wE neED tEh pItChERs" people, yeah I'm sure Cashman knows. He can still upgrade the offense
    #HarperWatch

  5. #305
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KayForPresident View Post
    But the analytics, man. THE ANALYTICS! MOAR HOMERUNZZESZ!!!!11!!1!!
    LAD 8 - ATL 2
    MIL 4 - COL 0
    HOU 8 - CLE 2
    BOS 4 - NYY 4


    Overall hitting more HRs seems like a good indicator of playoff success.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  6. #306
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Want no part of Bum at the prices being discussed. His stuff has multiple red flags. He's not the pitcher he once was, but the price won't reflect that.

    https://www.mccoveychronicles.com/20...ason-sf-giants
    Calmer than you are

    7/30/2017: The day the Minnesota Twins bought a prospect from the New York Yankees.

  7. #307
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by spanky185 View Post
    Believe it or not the Yankees could add pitching and a hitter. This isn't an either-or. So "wE neED tEh pItChERs" people, yeah I'm sure Cashman knows. He can still upgrade the offense
    I expect them to add at least 2 SP (though that may include resigning one of Happ/CC) and a reasonably big bat.


    It will probably be through a combination of trade and FA.
    Baseball is life;
    the rest is just details.

  8. #308

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    LAD 8 - ATL 2
    MIL 4 - COL 0
    HOU 8 - CLE 2
    BOS 4 - NYY 4


    Overall hitting more HRs seems like a good indicator of playoff success.
    Correlation vs causality

    The renaming 4 teams are numbers 1,2,3,5 in post season batting average. But correlation or causality?
    Baseball games are not won with a formula. If you can hit, they will find a place for you

  9. #309

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    I really don’t like “too many home runs is bad” saying. Sure I’d gladly give away some home runs if it meant I could decrease outs and get more hits. But if you have the right players and approach, you can still hit plenty of homeruns and have a high team average and OBP. Didn’t the 2009 Yankees lead the league in average and homeruns?

    Edit: they were second in BA

    Point still stands
    Baseball games are not won with a formula. If you can hit, they will find a place for you

  10. #310

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMuntz View Post
    That's a fair concern. My point was simply that it is possible to upgrade the offense/defense and pitching simultaneously. They don't necessarily need to choose one or the other.
    I absolutely agree. For the first time in years, this team has payroll flexibility and their core players under contract/control for 2019. It really boils down to whether Hal is willing to pass the luxury tax threshold now that he’s reset the tax, or whether he wishes to remain below it on a permanent basis.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  11. #311

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    Want no part of Bum at the prices being discussed. His stuff has multiple red flags. He's not the pitcher he once was, but the price won't reflect that.

    https://www.mccoveychronicles.com/20...ason-sf-giants
    I'm worried with the innings he's pitched already on his arm, long-term health doesn't equal long-term contract.

  12. #312

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mbn007 View Post
    Ahh. The $275-$300 million dollar payroll. I am sure Hal is all in favor...........
    Nah, we have somewhere in the ballpark $60M coming off the payroll. Say my (admittedly unrealistic) plan plays out and we add/extend/bring back the following:

    MadBum (a steal!) - $8M
    Harper - $30M
    Machado - $35M
    Corbin - $18M
    Keuchel - $10M
    Votto - $25M (offset by dumping Ellsbury?)
    Belt - $14M (part of the MadBum deal)
    Didi - $12 AAV
    Hicks $8 AAV
    Britton at $14M (maybe high)
    Robertson at $8M (probably high)

    We'd be sitting around $250M for next year's payroll. Dump Stanton and you cut into that pretty significantly and maybe have some other chips to work into these trades I laid out to keep some cost-controlled pieces.

    The beauty of having a stud young core is that a lot of these guys are on team-friendly contracts for the better part of the next decade, and even in arbitration we'll have them at favorable values that allow us to roll with a few big contracts. On top of that, it's not like we're talking about signing a bunch of 30-year-olds. Most of these guys are on the right side of 30 and just entering their prime, and even at 8-10 year long contracts will still be in their prime producing seasons. Yes, it would be expensive but it's not like the Yankees aren't flush with revenue from a new stadium, one of the best TV networks in the industry, and the potential merch sales with the new names. Forbes has the estimated revenue of the Yanks at ~$500M per year. This is already the most marketable team in sports and you'd be dumping a whole heaping barrel of gasoline on that already existing bonfire.

  13. #313

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fightingirish595 View Post
    I really don’t like “too many home runs is bad” saying. Sure I’d gladly give away some home runs if it meant I could decrease outs and get more hits. But if you have the right players and approach, you can still hit plenty of homeruns and have a high team average and OBP. Didn’t the 2009 Yankees lead the league in average and homeruns?

    Edit: they were second in BA

    Point still stands
    Home runs are great, but when you need a base hit and go popout, k, k something is wrong with the hitting approach. Yankees failed too many times w/ risp because their approach didn't change. Runners on? Take the single! Let the next guy hit the bomb
    #HarperWatch

  14. #314
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    Want no part of Bum at the prices being discussed. His stuff has multiple red flags. He's not the pitcher he once was, but the price won't reflect that.

    https://www.mccoveychronicles.com/20...ason-sf-giants
    There are definitely some red flags. BB's up, K's down this year. And moving from an extreme pitcher's park in the NL West to YSIII in the AL East won't help matters either.
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  15. #315
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    LAD 8 - ATL 2
    MIL 4 - COL 0
    HOU 8 - CLE 2
    BOS 4 - NYY 4


    Overall hitting more HRs seems like a good indicator of playoff success.
    Is there a point to this message? Has anyone challenged the notion that HRs are important or even "indicators of playoff success"?

  16. #316

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by spanky185 View Post
    Home runs are great, but when you need a base hit and go popout, k, k something is wrong with the hitting approach. Yankees failed too many times w/ risp because their approach didn't change. Runners on? Take the single! Let the next guy hit the bomb
    I agree the approach is bad. I just don’t think the statement “we hit too many homeruns” is correct
    Baseball games are not won with a formula. If you can hit, they will find a place for you

  17. #317

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jesterno2 View Post
    They may start asking for that package but obviously, that doesn't mean the conversation ends there.

    Andujar - 23-year old ROTY elite bat, albeit needing some heavy work on his defense. these are the kinds of blue chips you build franchises around. I wouldn't trade him for anything less than a MadBum type and if Machado wasn't on the table to man 3B

    Sheffield - pretty good bet to be a #2-3 and could still develop into TOR with some luck. one of the best pitching prospects in all of baseball and will benefit from that park as you mentioned.

    Frazier/Florial - either you're getting a kid you can plug into your outfield right away to start who'd still be a top 100 prospect if he qualified, or you get one of the top CF prospects in all of baseball with a super high ceiling

    Holder - 25 year old RP that showed flashes of set-up man stuff. better than just about anything else they have in their pen right now, to be honest

    Acevedo/Abreu/Sauer/Adams - all guys rated in or around the top 100 prospects in baseball. I'd imagine Acevedo and Abreu are more attractive than Sauer and Adams at this point, but who knows what their scouts think and I'm fine parting with 2 of any of them as part of the package

    Wade/Estrada - both still legit IF prospects, just not really a place for them on the Yanks but certainly enticing for a team that lacks blue chip prospects and needs both guys you can plug in in the coming years of chips to use in trades

    No way Torres is included in this trade when you have basically the chance to build a package around 5 blue chip kids who are all either ML ready right now or getting close. There's plenty on the table that I just mentioned and no one else is going to be in a position to top that
    Massive, massive, massive overpay. Not many teams are going to be able to offer an Andujar as a starting point for MadBum.

  18. #318

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by albo4lyfe View Post
    Massive, massive, massive overpay. Not many teams are going to be able to offer an Andujar as a starting point for MadBum.
    Agreed. I actually think that the actual package would be less than the final pieces I included in there given that Andy could be the centerpiece, which is obviously even better. But the point I was trying to make is that even with an exorbitant package we have plenty of chips to get it done and meet even a king's ransom to get them to the negotiating table if we want to secure that TOR starter.

  19. #319
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jesterno2 View Post
    They may start asking for that package but obviously, that doesn't mean the conversation ends there.

    Andujar - 23-year old ROTY elite bat, albeit needing some heavy work on his defense. these are the kinds of blue chips you build franchises around. I wouldn't trade him for anything less than a MadBum type and if Machado wasn't on the table to man 3B

    Sheffield - pretty good bet to be a #2-3 and could still develop into TOR with some luck. one of the best pitching prospects in all of baseball and will benefit from that park as you mentioned.

    Frazier/Florial - either you're getting a kid you can plug into your outfield right away to start who'd still be a top 100 prospect if he qualified, or you get one of the top CF prospects in all of baseball with a super high ceiling

    Holder - 25 year old RP that showed flashes of set-up man stuff. better than just about anything else they have in their pen right now, to be honest

    Acevedo/Abreu/Sauer/Adams - all guys rated in or around the top 100 prospects in baseball. I'd imagine Acevedo and Abreu are more attractive than Sauer and Adams at this point, but who knows what their scouts think and I'm fine parting with 2 of any of them as part of the package

    Wade/Estrada - both still legit IF prospects, just not really a place for them on the Yanks but certainly enticing for a team that lacks blue chip prospects and needs both guys you can plug in in the coming years of chips to use in trades

    No way Torres is included in this trade when you have basically the chance to build a package around 5 blue chip kids who are all either ML ready right now or getting close. There's plenty on the table that I just mentioned and no one else is going to be in a position to top that
    That package could start the talk with the Mets about DeGrom......
    Speak softly but carry a big stick.

  20. #320
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Total agreement with the Votto talk.
    Speak softly but carry a big stick.

  21. #321

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ27 View Post
    That package could start the talk with the Mets about DeGrom......
    Except it doesn't matter what we offer the Mets won't do it. Honestly, in a vacuum we might theoretically have enough for both if they'd both be willing to deal, but that's completely unrealistic and the Mets would rather wallow in mediocrity with the best pitcher in the league than deal with the Yanks.

  22. #322
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jesterno2 View Post
    Nah, we have somewhere in the ballpark $60M coming off the payroll. Say my (admittedly unrealistic) plan plays out and we add/extend/bring back the following:

    MadBum (a steal!) - $8M
    Harper - $30M
    Machado - $35M
    Corbin - $18M
    Keuchel - $10M
    Votto - $25M (offset by dumping Ellsbury?)
    Belt - $14M (part of the MadBum deal)
    Didi - $12 AAV
    Hicks $8 AAV
    Britton at $14M (maybe high)
    Robertson at $8M (probably high)

    We'd be sitting around $250M for next year's payroll. Dump Stanton and you cut into that pretty significantly and maybe have some other chips to work into these trades I laid out to keep some cost-controlled pieces.

    The beauty of having a stud young core is that a lot of these guys are on team-friendly contracts for the better part of the next decade, and even in arbitration we'll have them at favorable values that allow us to roll with a few big contracts. On top of that, it's not like we're talking about signing a bunch of 30-year-olds. Most of these guys are on the right side of 30 and just entering their prime, and even at 8-10 year long contracts will still be in their prime producing seasons. Yes, it would be expensive but it's not like the Yankees aren't flush with revenue from a new stadium, one of the best TV networks in the industry, and the potential merch sales with the new names. Forbes has the estimated revenue of the Yanks at ~$500M per year. This is already the most marketable team in sports and you'd be dumping a whole heaping barrel of gasoline on that already existing bonfire.
    Madbum's already signed for 12. To extend him, he will want the payday hes never gotten.

    Why would Hick's agree to extend for 8? Try 18. Hes the 3rd best CF in baseball, and the 2nd best is signed for an AAV of 18.

    Keuchel will get more than 10.

    Didi gets more than 12.

  23. #323

    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ChinMusic View Post
    Madbum's already signed for 12. To extend him, he will want the payday hes never gotten.

    Why would Hick's agree to extend for 8? Try 18. Hes the 3rd best CF in baseball, and the 2nd best is signed for an AAV of 18.

    Keuchel will get more than 10.

    Didi gets more than 12.
    Eh, off by a little bit. AAV for MadBum's contract was a little 7M so I thought his salary was lower, but 12M is still a deal and I'd absolutely be willing to give him the extension. He's only 29 and never relied on velocity for his performance and I think he'll continue to be very productive well into his 30s.

    You're probably right about both Didi and Hicks making more, but both are coming off arbitration contracts so will be interesting to see how much they get. Keuchel may get more as well but he's probably looking at a 3-4 year deal at his age and not a TOR starter anymore, so will also be interesting.

    Regardless, the Yanks have the revenue to justify big spending if they really want to and this is an internet forum so it's all just hypotheticals anyway. Shrug

  24. #324
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    The blueprint:

    1. Fire Boone. Hire Showalter. Let him pick his coaches.

    2. Starting pitching:

    Resign Happ
    Sign Morton 3-57. He's proven himself over 2 years in the toughest division.
    5th spot : Monty, lasagna, German, Adams, Sheff open auditions
    Forget Madbum ( Whats he done the last 2 years?), Corbin (29 year old having a career year in an NL division full of picthers parks).
    If Nats lost Harper and decided to rebuild and trade Scherzer, would pursue that over Morton. He is owed 40 MM per, but only counts 30 towards the cap, so being a partial salary dump, he might cost a little less than expected in talent going the other way.

    3. Bullpen:

    CC for longman at 4-5 million. Would provide a floor for performance for the #5 starter spot, if need be.
    Resign Robertson for less $
    Let Britton go, sign Miller

    4. Lineup
    Machado and Harper too much $ and years. Fugetaboutit.

    Donaldson for 1 year with an option, or 2 years at most. Andujar to DH.

    If Stanton cant be traded, he has to play LF

    Buy out Gardner. Frazier as 4th OF(Buy him some bubble wrap).

    Bird and Voit to compete for 1B job. If neither is any good, fill at the July deadline.

    Sanchez to C, unless Cash can get good value for him in a trade for Realmuto or Scherzer or one of the Mets studs.

  25. #325
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    Re: Official 2018-19 Offseason / Hot Stove Thread

    Is there any actual basis for the MadBum talk?

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