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  1. #26
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    Re: Arizona senator John McCain has died

    Quote Originally Posted by Maynerd View Post
    I would suggest that if you know nothing about the American military, that you might be better served to remain silent.
    In what way is bombing a civilian target and violating the fourth Geneva Convention not a war crime? If it was the American military that ordered it, that makes it worse.

  2. #27
    Word of the Year is Complicit ojo's Avatar
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    Re: Arizona senator John McCain has died

    Quote Originally Posted by ajra21 View Post
    He kinda reminds me of Thatcher. Frequently, her name is held up as a banner for strong independent thinking but the UK is a considerably worse place because of her leadership.



    Indeed. Some years ago, I attended a funeral of someone mainly cos it was expected of me due to family commitments. I didn't know the person and everything anyone had ever told me about them was negative and unpleasant. They were not a nice or good person. For two days, people spoke about this person as if they'd always liked them, yet away from large groups, everyone acknowledged the person didn't deserve anyone to show up.

    (Now, I'll admit, I'm generally of the opinion that funerals etc are pointless concepts. I've made it very clear: once I'm dead, ship my organs off to people who can use them and send the rest of my corpse to a science lab. If it's of no use to anyone, they can burn it and pour the ashes in the garbage. No funeral, no ceremony. Now, I'm dead so I have no idea what is being done but if someone organizes a gathering, they better know I'd be pissed off that they're wasting people's actual lives over a dead person.)



    McCain looked good the last couple of years because he was being compared to the worst of people. He should be the right wing contingent of the GOP in a modern world, not the semi-moderate.

    Ben Sasse is loved by the NRA, wants abortion banned, doesn't want people to be able to get health care, and is against gay marriage. Didn't he also vote against a package to help drug addicts? He's independent in a way that has no place in the 21st century.
    There always seemed to be a false perspective about McCain, and I think you’re driving that point home here.
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  3. #28
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    Re: Arizona senator John McCain has died

    Quote Originally Posted by ojo View Post
    There always seemed to be a false perspective about McCain, and I think you’re driving that point home here.
    And I'll admit to hoping he'd vote against whatever stupid stuff was on the table. But being right once or twice or even thrice doesn't make you good.
    Bring tea for the Tillerman; Steak for the son; Wine for the woman
    who made the rain come; Seagulls sing your hearts away;
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  4. #29

    Re: Arizona senator John McCain has died

    Reading this thread I can see why conservatives hate liberals. The polar opposites of this political spectrum has no forgiveness nor empathy for each other. The two extremes are going to be the death of this country. R.I.P. John McCain even though I opposed most of your political views.

  5. #30
    Word of the Year is Complicit ojo's Avatar
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    Re: Arizona senator John McCain has died

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    Reading this thread I can see why conservatives hate liberals. The polar opposites of this political spectrum has no forgiveness nor empathy for each other. The two extremes are going to be the death of this country. R.I.P. John McCain even though I opposed most of your political views.


    But not the other way around? Like, you just read a laundry list as to why McCain was a person of suspect character and the fact some here question his lionization makes you think conservatives are justified in their hatred of libruls?

    McCain mainstreamed Palin, which ultimately beget us Donald Trump.
    This is not America...No! https://youtu.be/neLXqbR_r0E

  6. #31
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    Re: Arizona senator John McCain has died

    Quote Originally Posted by ajra21 View Post
    McCain looked good the last couple of years because he was being compared to the worst of people. He should be the right wing contingent of the GOP in a modern world, not the semi-moderate.
    The good qualities of McCain, actually, make him worse. I think he was easily one of the worst Republicans. Most of the others are clearly sociopathic monsters devoid of morals or empathy. McCain was very clearly a man who had integrity, honor, and morals, he simply chose to ignore them.

    McCain is the only Republican who, without a doubt, knew better and could have done better, but chose not to. And that makes him all the worse.

    What if he didn't choose to ignore his morals, but actually thought white supremacy, warmongering and Trumpism were good, and breaking with some ideal of decorum was bad? His behaviour would be... exactly what he did, so it would indeed suggest that this is the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    Reading this thread I can see why conservatives hate liberals. The polar opposites of this political spectrum has no forgiveness nor empathy for each other.
    Oh no! We're saying mean (true) things about a man spent most of his life committing pointlessly cruel acts that left a lot of people dead! We should definitely be celebrating his life instead!

    Why should he deserve forgiveness or empathy for all he's done his entire life and career? Just because he died? Screw that and screw decorum. McCain is really a good example of the question of "if you were sort of cool 40 years ago and a sh*t ever since, does that stuff still count for much?"

    Correcting the record on McCain is a moral and civil obligation, because if it isn't done someone else is going to pull the same exact act he did. It's not a celebration of his death, it's a refusal to join in the use of lies to create a celebration of his objectively harmful political career.

  7. #32

    Re: Arizona senator John McCain has died

    Even though I espoused liberal views, there is a segment of liberals that exhibited some of the same bad traits exhibited by those they oppose politically. No forgiveness, no empathy and a lack of respect towards those that don’t share your political views.

  8. #33
    time of my life ... ajra21's Avatar
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    Re: Arizona senator John McCain has died

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    Reading this thread I can see why conservatives hate liberals. The polar opposites of this political spectrum has no forgiveness nor empathy for each other. The two extremes are going to be the death of this country. R.I.P. John McCain even though I opposed most of your political views.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    Even though I espoused liberal views, there is a segment of liberals that exhibited some of the same bad traits exhibited by those they oppose politically. No forgiveness, no empathy and a lack of respect towards those that don’t share your political views.
    There is one extreme in modern America. The other side modernized as you'd expect.

    "Forgiveness" is an odd concept. I'll be honest, I don't really "forgive" anyone. Not cos I hold whatever they did against them but because who am I to forgive anyone? If someone apologizes and it seems contrite, then fair play to them. They recognized their own mistake and hopefully won't repeat it.

    Did McCain apologize for the list of crappy things he did? I don't know - he didn't really do it to me.

    Regarding people's death. I believe dead people are dead. They aren't resting. They are dead. I wished him good health when alive. I hoped he'd beaten cancer cos I hope pretty much everyone beats cancer.
    Bring tea for the Tillerman; Steak for the son; Wine for the woman
    who made the rain come; Seagulls sing your hearts away;
    'Cause while the sinners sin, the children play ...

  9. #34
    time of my life ... ajra21's Avatar
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    Re: Arizona senator John McCain has died

    Quote Originally Posted by trapper700 View Post
    The good qualities of McCain, actually, make him worse. I think he was easily one of the worst Republicans. Most of the others are clearly sociopathic monsters devoid of morals or empathy. McCain was very clearly a man who had integrity, honor, and morals, he simply chose to ignore them.

    McCain is the only Republican who, without a doubt, knew better and could have done better, but chose not to. And that makes him all the worse.

    What if he didn't choose to ignore his morals, but actually thought white supremacy, warmongering and Trumpism were good, and breaking with some ideal of decorum was bad? His behaviour would be... exactly what he did, so it would indeed suggest that this is the case.
    This is a major point. There are people in all walks of life like this. Some people are worse but if they don't know better, I sometimes find it difficult to hold it against them.

    Now, would I prefer the Senate GOP were all like him? Probably, but there would still be major problems.
    Bring tea for the Tillerman; Steak for the son; Wine for the woman
    who made the rain come; Seagulls sing your hearts away;
    'Cause while the sinners sin, the children play ...

  10. #35

    Re: Arizona senator John McCain has died

    Quote Originally Posted by ajra21 View Post
    There is one extreme in modern America. The other side modernized as you'd expect.
    I used to think that, but not any more. There is definitely two extremes in America and both are hypocrites even though I align with one extreme over the other.

  11. #36
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    Re: Arizona senator John McCain has died

    Quote Originally Posted by ojo View Post


    But not the other way around? Like, you just read a laundry list as to why McCain was a person of suspect character and the fact some here question his lionization makes you think conservatives are justified in their hatred of libruls?

    McCain mainstreamed Palin, which ultimately beget us Donald Trump.
    Palin was very much the prologue to Trump and for that, McCain deserves criticism.

    He knew it as well.
    Bring tea for the Tillerman; Steak for the son; Wine for the woman
    who made the rain come; Seagulls sing your hearts away;
    'Cause while the sinners sin, the children play ...

  12. #37
    time of my life ... ajra21's Avatar
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    Re: Arizona senator John McCain has died

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    I used to think that, but not anymore. There are definitely two extremes in America and both are hypocrites.
    Nope. Nope. Nope.

    The Dems are moderates in the rest of the modern world. Many of them would be conservatives in Europe.


    Now, are people hypocrites? Yes (Booker is one for his stance on pharma - and I like him). But the collective hypocrisy by the GOP is disgusting.
    Bring tea for the Tillerman; Steak for the son; Wine for the woman
    who made the rain come; Seagulls sing your hearts away;
    'Cause while the sinners sin, the children play ...

  13. #38

    Re: Arizona senator John McCain has died

    Quote Originally Posted by ajra21 View Post
    Nope. Nope. Nope.

    The Dems are moderates in the rest of the modern world. Many of them would be conservatives in Europe.


    Now, are people hypocrites? Yes (Booker is one for his stance on pharma - and I like him). But the collective hypocrisy by the GOP is disgusting.
    The Dems are fast becoming a collective hypocrisy in their own way, particularly, the far left wing of the party.

  14. #39

    Re: Arizona senator John McCain has died

    Quote Originally Posted by ajra21 View Post
    Palin was very much the prologue to Trump and for that, McCain deserves criticism.

    He knew it as well.
    That was a horrible decision on his part for many reasons and it came back to bite him as one of the reasons why he lost the election after leading in the polls in early September, 2008.

  15. #40
    time of my life ... ajra21's Avatar
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    Re: Arizona senator John McCain has died

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    The Dems are fast becoming a collective hypocrisy in their own way, particularly, the far left wing of the party.
    The "far left" is modern left-wing politicians who are made to look "far left" cos many in the US wants to live in the 1960s.

    I'd like more examples of what you consider collective hypocrisy from them.
    Bring tea for the Tillerman; Steak for the son; Wine for the woman
    who made the rain come; Seagulls sing your hearts away;
    'Cause while the sinners sin, the children play ...

  16. #41
    time of my life ... ajra21's Avatar
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    Re: Arizona senator John McCain has died

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    That was a horrible decision on his part for many reasons and it came back to bite him as one of the reasons why he lost the election after leading in the polls in early September, 2008.
    He knew it was bad within weeks of the decision.

    Now, not knowing it the moment he met her is concerning.
    Bring tea for the Tillerman; Steak for the son; Wine for the woman
    who made the rain come; Seagulls sing your hearts away;
    'Cause while the sinners sin, the children play ...

  17. #42
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    Re: Arizona senator John McCain has died

    Quote Originally Posted by ajra21 View Post
    Palin was very much the prologue to Trump and for that, McCain deserves criticism.

    He knew it as well.
    I think it's myopic to think Trump wouldn't happen if McCain picked Lamar Alexander or somebody. That party was devolving toward Trump-populism at least since the 1990s (Pat Buchanan, Newt Gingrich et al.)

  18. #43
    time of my life ... ajra21's Avatar
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    Re: Arizona senator John McCain has died

    Quote Originally Posted by HelloNewman View Post
    I think it's myopic to think Trump wouldn't happen if McCain picked Lamar Alexander or somebody. That party was devolving toward Trump-populism at least since the 1990s (Pat Buchanan, Newt Gingrich et al.)
    Not saying Trump wouldn't have happened anyway. I just said she was the prologue. There is no doubt the GOP went down the toilet sometime in the 1990s, or even before then.
    Bring tea for the Tillerman; Steak for the son; Wine for the woman
    who made the rain come; Seagulls sing your hearts away;
    'Cause while the sinners sin, the children play ...

  19. #44
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    Re: Arizona senator John McCain has died

    Quote Originally Posted by Texsahara View Post
    Any official statement from the WH or just that simpering, little tweet?
    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bm7HFb3g...ealdonaldtrump

    His instagram version includes a picture of himself.

  20. #45
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    Re: Arizona senator John McCain has died

    Quote Originally Posted by trapper700 View Post
    Here’s a shortlist of reasons why he doesn’t deserve my respect:

    - volunteered to drop napalm on civilians during the Vietnam war and was shot down while committing the war crime of dropping a bomb on a light bulb factory filled with civilians
    - Cheated on then divorced his disfigured dying wife (who waited for him while he was a POW) to marry his second, much richer, millionaire wife
    - Called his current wife a cunt in front of reporters
    - Was corrupt as f and was knee deep in the now-forgotten S&L scandal. He was one of the Keating Five and managed to skate on any possible charges.
    - Supported the Iraq War
    - Wanted to start a war with Iran
    - gave a platform to Sarah Palin, which additionally gave a platform to the even crazier side of the GOP
    -"Health of the Mother"
    - voted for all of Trump's cabinet nominees
    - voted for this awful tax bill
    - opposed making Martin Luther King Jr. Day a national holiday
    - defended using the racial slur “gook” and his reiterated his hatred for them
    - called Chelsea Clinton so ugly that she must have been fathered by Janet Reno when Reno was herself dying of a terminal disease
    - told people dying of cancer and begging for his help as senator of arizona to move out of arizona if they wanted to get access to healthcare
    - his last official act as a public servant was refusing to resign, despite being unable to work for almost a year, and trigger a special election, so that his Trump-supporting governor could handpick a Trump-supporting senator who'll serve as his replacement for two full years, taking the power out of the voters’ hands





    I'd love to see your short list on trump. An then I'd have to post my long list on trump except it would be 600 pages long.


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  21. #46

    Re: Arizona senator John McCain has died

    Quote Originally Posted by Trish View Post
    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bm7HFb3g...ealdonaldtrump

    His instagram version includes a picture of himself.
    Call me skeptical, but I really doubt Trump actually prays.

    (does the guy ever button his coat? He looks like a slob)
    Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. ~ Dale Carnegie

  22. #47
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trish View Post
    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bm7HFb3g...ealdonaldtrump

    His instagram version includes a picture of himself.
    JFC, the man is amazing.

  23. #48
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    Re: Arizona senator John McCain has died

    Quote Originally Posted by fredgmuggs View Post
    Call me skeptical, but I really doubt Trump actually prays.

    (does the guy ever button his coat? He looks like a slob)
    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    JFC, the man is amazing.
    That's because he is a slob. An amazing slob.

  24. #49

    Re: Arizona senator John McCain has died

    Quote Originally Posted by trapper700 View Post
    Here’s a shortlist of reasons why he doesn’t deserve my respect:

    - volunteered to drop napalm on civilians during the Vietnam war and was shot down while committing the war crime of dropping a bomb on a light bulb factory filled with civilians
    - Cheated on then divorced his disfigured dying wife (who waited for him while he was a POW) to marry his second, much richer, millionaire wife
    - Called his current wife a cunt in front of reporters
    - Was corrupt as f and was knee deep in the now-forgotten S&L scandal. He was one of the Keating Five and managed to skate on any possible charges.
    - Supported the Iraq War
    - Wanted to start a war with Iran
    - gave a platform to Sarah Palin, which additionally gave a platform to the even crazier side of the GOP
    -"Health of the Mother"
    - voted for all of Trump's cabinet nominees
    - voted for this awful tax bill
    - opposed making Martin Luther King Jr. Day a national holiday
    - defended using the racial slur “gook” and his reiterated his hatred for them
    - called Chelsea Clinton so ugly that she must have been fathered by Janet Reno when Reno was herself dying of a terminal disease
    - told people dying of cancer and begging for his help as senator of arizona to move out of arizona if they wanted to get access to healthcare
    - his last official act as a public servant was refusing to resign, despite being unable to work for almost a year, and trigger a special election, so that his Trump-supporting governor could handpick a Trump-supporting senator who'll serve as his replacement for two full years, taking the power out of the voters’ hands
    Honestly this. For years he voted against my right to control my body. He voted against the rest of us having the government healthcare that he enjoyed his whole life, so his family could worry about enjoying his final days and not about being bankrupted by medical bills after his death. He voted in favor of a tax scam to benefit the wealthy and screw the rest of us. He was a warmonger. He didn't support LGBT rights.

    In short, he was a rich, straight white man who voted against the interests of anyone who wasn't among that very select group. I'm kind of tired of seeing liberals eulogize him.

    I -- along with hundreds of others -- shook his hand very briefly at a campaign stop at my university in 2000. I'm not terribly proud of that fact anymore.
    "A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people."
    -- Declaration of Independence

  25. #50
    Word of the Year is Complicit ojo's Avatar
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    Re: Arizona senator John McCain has died

    Quote Originally Posted by Trish View Post
    https://www.instagram.com/p/Bm7HFb3g...ealdonaldtrump

    His instagram version includes a picture of himself.
    This is not America...No! https://youtu.be/neLXqbR_r0E

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