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  1. #1
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    Should Todd Helton Make the Hall of Fame?

    At http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2...ame-class-2019 two out of three people said Todd Helton won't make the Hall of Fame and one person said he could gradually rise. Helton is the only player to have all of these things:

    Played after 1963
    2,500 hits
    1,400 RBI
    1,400 runs
    .950 OPS
    Not accused of PEDs

    Among the recent players with a worse career OPS than Helton are A-Rod, Pujols, Miguel Cabrera, Chipper Jones, and Griffey Jr. I'm not guaranteeing that Helton didn't use PEDs, but of the three players who played after 1963 and had those statistics, more people believe Bonds and Ramirez used PEDs than believe Helton used PEDs.

  2. #2
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvanJ View Post
    At http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2...ame-class-2019 two out of three people said Todd Helton won't make the Hall of Fame and one person said he could gradually rise. Helton is the only player to have all of these things:

    Played after 1963
    2,500 hits
    1,400 RBI
    1,400 runs
    .950 OPS
    Not accused of PEDs

    Among the recent players with a worse career OPS than Helton are A-Rod, Pujols, Miguel Cabrera, Chipper Jones, and Griffey Jr. I'm not guaranteeing that Helton didn't use PEDs, but of the three players who played after 1963 and had those statistics, more people believe Bonds and Ramirez used PEDs than believe Helton used PEDs.
    PEDs might not be a factor, but Coors Field definitely will be.

    Home: .345/.441/.607/1.048
    Road: .287/.386/.469/.855

  3. #3
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    Re: Should Todd Helton Make the Hall of Fame?

    Playing in Coors Field helped him, but playing there isn't ethically wrong like using PEDs. His career road OPS is still better than the career OPS of four of the last six players to reach 3,000 hits.

  4. #4
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvanJ View Post
    Playing in Coors Field helped him, but playing there isn't ethically wrong like using PEDs. His career road OPS is still better than the career OPS of four of the last six players to reach 3,000 hits.
    I guess Iím not really talking about whether he should make the Hall of Fame, but whether he will. Regardless of ethics, more than a few voters will discount his stats because of Coors. And his OPS compared with guys who got to 3000 hits wonít carry much weight, because he didnít reach 3000 hits. A number like that means a lot to voters.

    As to whether he should make the Hall, Iím on the bubble. I wouldnít be offended either way, except that nobody should go into the Hall until Marvin Miller is in. No one else matters until then, because Itís not a Hallnof Fame without Marvin Miller.

  5. #5
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    Re: Should Todd Helton Make the Hall of Fame?

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    As to whether he should make the Hall, Iím on the bubble. I wouldnít be offended either way, except that nobody should go into the Hall until Marvin Miller is in. No one else matters until then, because Itís not a Hallnof Fame without Marvin Miller.
    I'm all in favor of Marvin Miller going in, but Curt Flood had better go in with him. The guy who actually gave up something.

  6. #6
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelloNewman View Post
    I'm all in favor of Marvin Miller going in, but Curt Flood had better go in with him. The guy who actually gave up something.
    Iíd still maintain that Marvin Miller, alone, is the single most important figure in baseball history after 1947, and itís not close. Flood may have been more Homer Plessy than Linda Brown, but itís a pretty safe bet that the next five years wouldnít have happened as they did without him. Arbitration rights, 10/5 rights, Catfish Hunte, and finally Messersmith-McNally - y ah, Miller got those things done, but they probably donít happen that way without Flood.

  7. #7

    Re: Should Todd Helton Make the Hall of Fame?

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Iíd still maintain that Marvin Miller, alone, is the single most important figure in baseball history after 1947, and itís not close. Flood may have been more Homer Plessy than Linda Brown, but itís a pretty safe bet that the next five years wouldnít have happened as they did without him. Arbitration rights, 10/5 rights, Catfish Hunte, and finally Messersmith-McNally - y ah, Miller got those things done, but they probably donít happen that way without Flood.
    My biggest knock on Helton, Who was a hell of a baseball player, is that he was not one of the best players at his position for a long period of time. He had like a 3 or 4 year stretch where he was up there.
    Baseball games are not won with a formula. If you can hit, they will find a place for you

  8. #8
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fightingirish595 View Post
    My biggest knock on Helton, Who was a hell of a baseball player, is that he was not one of the best players at his position for a long period of time. He had like a 3 or 4 year stretch where he was up there.
    I donít think it should count against him that his prime coincided with Albert Pujols' prime.

    I do agree that his offensive numbers need to be put in the context of his era and his ballpark. Ignoring context is why every 1930s player with a flashy BA made it into the Hall.

  9. #9

    Re: Should Todd Helton Make the Hall of Fame?

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I donít think it should count against him that his prime coincided with Albert Pujols' prime.

    I do agree that his offensive numbers need to be put in the context of his era and his ballpark. Ignoring context is why every 1930s player with a flashy BA made it into the Hall.
    From 00-04 he was easily top 3 at his position. After that is a different story. Hes boarderline in my opinion.
    Baseball games are not won with a formula. If you can hit, they will find a place for you

  10. #10
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    Re: Should Todd Helton Make the Hall of Fame?

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Ignoring context is why every 1930s player with a flashy BA made it into the Hall.
    Or being friends with Frank Frisch.

  11. #11
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelloNewman View Post
    Or being friends with Frank Frisch.
    I hear Marvin Miller snubbed Frank Frisch at a party once, and that was that.

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