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  1. #51

    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by Snatch Catch View Post
    I understand why people keep throwing out this type of package, but it's never going to happen. Not because of personal opinion here, but because it's cartoonishly excessive. Please understand I'm not saying that in a mocking way, I just think that as fans we're creating these packages based on the need to "outbid ourselves" if you will, and in the process are losing sight of the actual, real-world trade value of these players/prospects we're discussing.

    This is off the top of my head, but I'd wager an Andujar, Frazier, Sheffield, Abreu package would be in conversation for the largest value of talent (evaluated at the time of the deal) ever traded in the history of the sport - probably behind even the craziness of the Colon deal brokered by the basically recklessly negligent Expos 16 years ago - and we're in an analytical era where prospect are respected more than ever.

    I understand the need to overpay, but these types of packages go beyond that...and by a lot, too. The Yankees happen to have more trade chips than anyone, but that doesn't mean the standard for an "overpay" changes; adding "four pieces" to a trade package isn't the same with the Yankees and other teams. Especially when one of them is a player who's shown All-Star potential at the ML level.
    Supply and demand.

  2. #52

    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Wasn't aware the concept of supply and demand required one side to bend over and take it. What team is trading two cost controlled MLB-ready talent with major upside, a the #41 prospect, and another top-100 guy with frontline stuff for anyone being made available during any given deadline period?

    Sheffield and Andujar in the same package is never happening because both can headline packages on their own.

  3. #53

    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by LouisLitt View Post
    Wasn't aware the concept of supply and demand required one side to bend over and take it.
    Economics 101.

  4. #54
    Do not vex me mortal Hitman23's Avatar
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    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by Snatch Catch View Post
    Not because of personal opinion here, but because it's cartoonishly excessive.
    With all due respect to Slurpee...



    I'm sorry I burst out laughing when I read that line.

    As usual SC is spot on with his analysis of this trade proposal. Which also made me laugh when I read it. If I were in control I would not pull that trigger.
    In Cashman I trust.
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  5. #55
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    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    Clint Frazier
    Brandon Drury
    Luis Medina
    Domingo Acevedo
    Chance Adams

    This is an outstanding jump-start package for any rebuilding team with a crappy farm system, including the Mets:

    Two young, cost-controlled ML-ready position players, one who's semi-proven in Drury @ 2nd & 3rd, and a versatile OFer who could be a star in Frazier.

    A potential top-of-the rotation starter that's about 3 years away in Medina, who's electric, raw stuff could be the best in a stable full of pitching prospects. Acevedo's ceiling may be as a #3 starter, or a Betances-like closer, and should be ready for 2019. Chance Adams could shore up the back of the rotation both this year & in 2019.

    Who else can put together a better package? No one that I know of. Someone can probably offer a better top prospect, but the Mets need quantity as well as quality. Their fan base should easily see this is an excellent quality package in exchange for giving up Jacob deGrom.

    The Yankees can afford to give up all this talent in order to get a true ace for 2.5 seasons. The three-headed monster of Severino-deGrom-Tanaka pushes Gray back to #4 and CC to #5. IMO he makes them a championship favorite. He is the missing piece.

    Looking ahead to 2019 and beyond, the Yanks will still have a loaded outfield with backup depth (Florial, McKinney, Ellsbury) for the next few seasons, and can still be able to go out and get a veteran OFer if need be.

    They'll still have a loaded infield with backup depth (Torreyes, Estrada, Wade & more) and can go out and get a 1st baseman if Bird never hits his ceiling.

    They'll still have top pitching prospects in German, Loaisiga, Sheffield, Abreu, Perez, Tate, Sauer and Schmidt, as well as Jordan Montgomery coming back in 2019 to replace CC.

    If I'm either GM, I say yes to this deal, thinking I got the better end of it. What a blockbuster deal.





    The Mets would never make that deal, but it is a good package that could attract a second tier team with financial restrictions that might have a Stud,( potentially #1) starter , who is on his walk ((or near to) year.


    I trust Cashman to find a great deal.


    Andy
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  6. #56

    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Economics 101.

    That proposal only exists because of the arbitrary tax of both teams playing in the same market.

  7. #57

    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by LouisLitt View Post
    That proposal only exists because of the arbitrary tax of both teams playing in the same market.
    Slurpee's package has enough assets to pay for the Red Sox tax to acquire Chris Sale, lol.

  8. #58
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    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    http://riveraveblues.com/2018/07/sun...etwork-173800/

    Mike Axisa's take:

    "Of course, the chances of a significant Yankees-Mets trade are remote, even if it makes sense for both teams. The Yankees can match (and beat) pretty much any prospect offer, and if they make the best offer, why wouldn’t the Mets take it? Who knows. I guess the thought of potentially seeing deGrom or Syndergaard leading the Yankees to postseason glory is enough to make the Wilpons squeamish. I like that Cashman is talking about this openly. Puts pressure on the Mets. Everyone knows the Yankees have plenty of good prospects to offer, and if they trade deGrom and Syndergaard for a bunch of lesser prospects, lots of Mets fans will not be happy."
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  9. #59
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    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    My package is what the Mets would take. Not what I nor Cashman would do.

    Mets are not trading deGrom to the hated Yankees for a package centered around Frazier, Drury and lesser prospects.
    I don't trust the Mets. I could see them (Wilpon) trading him to another team for a worst package.

    No trade is happening unless the Yankees overpay. This is why a trade won't happen.

  10. #60
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    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by SLURPEE View Post
    Andujar/Frazier/Sheffield/Abreu would get it done for deGrom. No other team beats that deal and the Mets likely accept it. And their fanbase would like it.
    However, I don't believe Cashman does it. I think he would do two of those guys and fill out the rest with lesser prospects.
    Very strong offer, I agree. So we all agree the Yanks would have to "overpay" for such a deal to happen, but your definition of overpaying means giving up better prospects and my definition is offering more mid-level prospects. Both "overpays" have value.

    I don't like having to include both Sheffield & Abreu. One or the other, IMO. Losing both Andujar & Frazier would be hard enough, but that's the price that has to be paid for an ace.
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  11. #61

    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    I would replace Andujar with Drury in that package along with /Frazier/Sheffield/Abreu and add Acevedo/Medina.

  12. #62
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    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by yank4life2005 View Post
    I would replace Andujar with Drury in that package along with /Frazier/Sheffield/Abreu and add Acevedo/Medina.

    I like this too. Two ML-ready position players and 4 pitchers? That's quite a haul.
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  13. #63
    2009 WORLD CHAMPIONS aeromac76's Avatar
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    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    The more I think about it, the more I think there is just no way the Wilpons deal with us. I made a comment last week about Alderson's illness and a new regime taking over making a deal more likely. Some very smart posters disagreed with me, saying it's more a Wilpon thing here.. At first I thought, well there is no way the Wilpons would refuse a good offer for anyone, even if from the Yankees, if it made their team better even with the chance it vaults the Yankees over the top, would they?

    And then I thought about it, and when I did, the answer I came up with after watching some Mets press conferences and listening to the fanbase was yes, they would refuse with us..

    On Saturday, Jose Reyes did not hustle on a grounder. In the dugout Callaway went to him to ask why, and Reyes replied he felt like he was about to pull something so he broke it down. Ok , that would be fair..
    But when asked about the incident in the postgame, Callaway was also pressed about what body part, what did Reyes feel? Callaway responded that Reyes did not say.. Seriously? The Mets are so concerned with how things look, that they eschew the bigger picture for optics, even when the optics sometimes make things worse..

    So there is no way we are getting anyone from the Mets who could legitimately help us unless we literally gave them so much that it would be impossible to turn down.. We are not talking about overpayment here, we are not talking about offering 10% above list for a house what has some serious buyer competition.. We are talking about double the offer. There is no offer that the Yankees would be satisfied with that the Wilpons would approve. We'd have to be talking about Torres AND Andujar, and maybe more, to get them to blink.. and even then I am not sure..

    There is just no way given the way their season has gone into the toilet that they would help us.. The only goal for the Mets and their fans left to accomplish in 2018 is to NOT have the Yankees win..
    I used to think I was crazy... Now I am sure of it..

  14. #64

    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by aeromac76 View Post

    There is just no way given the way their season has gone into the toilet that they would help us.. The only goal for the Mets and their fans left to accomplish in 2018 is to NOT have the Yankees win..
    This!

  15. #65
    Beer Snob 21stAmendment's Avatar
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    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Not gonna happen, it's irrelevant if it s a fair deal. Just a waste or energy this topic.
    My Top 100 Films of 2015: http://funnylookinfilms.tumblr.com/

  16. #66

    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by 21stAmendment View Post
    Not gonna happen, it's irrelevant if it s a fair deal. Just a waste or energy this topic.
    What else we're going to talk about. It's a discussion board, but it's going to be a long four weeks or so.

  17. #67
    2009 WORLD CHAMPIONS aeromac76's Avatar
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    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    I still think we'll make a deal, but I have a suspicion it will be one that sneaks up on us..
    Cashman has a great stealth mode..
    I used to think I was crazy... Now I am sure of it..

  18. #68

    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by aeromac76 View Post
    I still think we'll make a deal, but I have a suspicion it will be one that sneaks up on us..
    Cashman has a great stealth mode..
    Blake Snell should be the “stealth” target.

  19. #69
    2009 WORLD CHAMPIONS aeromac76's Avatar
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    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by tullydew View Post
    Blake Snell should be the “stealth” target.
    Love him as a target, but there has been a ton of talk about him, so not sure it would be stealth.. But'd love him in any case..
    I used to think I was crazy... Now I am sure of it..

  20. #70
    God Bless the Scooter NYYFAN's Avatar
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    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    On the Fox game they had a list of possible pitchers the Yankees could be targeting. Most with losing records and era north of 4.00. A.J. Happ has a 10-2 record, but is this the answer? I'd rather go with one of the kids. This team needs a stud, not a number 3 or 4 type. ok for the regular season not in the playoffs.

    I think deGrom is the answer even at a high price. Would you trade some studs for a ring?

    'Kick ass. Pop champagne. And get some ho's.'

  21. #71
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    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by NYYFAN View Post
    This team needs a stud, not a number 3 or 4 type. ok for the regular season not in the playoffs. I think deGrom is the answer even at a high price. Would you trade some studs for a ring?

    I like the way you think. It's all about the rings this year.
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  22. #72
    2009 WORLD CHAMPIONS aeromac76's Avatar
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    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by NYYFAN View Post
    On the Fox game they had a list of possible pitchers the Yankees could be targeting. Most with losing records and era north of 4.00. A.J. Happ has a 10-2 record, but is this the answer? I'd rather go with one of the kids. This team needs a stud, not a number 3 or 4 type. ok for the regular season not in the playoffs.

    I think deGrom is the answer even at a high price. Would you trade some studs for a ring?
    Don't pay attention to W-L records of these guys. By definition, teams looking to trade away pitchers at this point are losing teams, so it is to be expected that their records will be sub par. Sonny Gray and Jacob DeGrom have the same number of wins this year, they are of course not comparable pitchers. ERA better to look at for sure, and some of those guys that were showed did have ERAs that were not great. But this is one of the few years where I do think we need to think regular season as much, if not more, than postseason...

    The reason is that unless something absolutely nuts happens, both us and Boston are going to the postseason. That means one of us is going to have a one game win or go home play in game. Given that it looks like the Mariners could be that team, you are staring at a one game winner take all with James Paxton. Whether it is Boston with Sale or us with Sevy, that is really a close matchup. You could be one hanging slider away from flushing away 105 wins...
    In addition, even if you win that game, you now go play the Astros or the East division winner (so it would be Bos-NY in all liklihood) where you have burned your best pitcher. That means Sale/Sevy only once in a 5 game series against the other team with the rotation lined up perfectly.

    In short, going into that WC game is not just an inconvenience, it is a monstrous handicap to winning the world series. The odds go down A LOT to win it all if you have to go that route.

    JA Happ or Cole Hamels may not be the answer in game 2 or 3 of a playoff series, but if they win an extra 3 or 4 games for you in the regular season it could be enough to avoid that WC game... We have a lot of games against bad teams in the second half, guys like Hamels or Happ an be sure we don't give a lot of them away, such as Gray getting bombed at home does even against bad teams. Also provides insurance if someone goes down..

    In short, a bunch of 6IP, 3 or 4 ER games in the second half, with our offense and bullpen, might be extremely valuable even if you don't expect that kind of effort to win you a duel to death against Justin Verlander in October. What we cannot afford is to have guys go out and find ourselves down 5-0 to Baltimore or TB or the White Sox in the second inning. We cannot throw games away at this point..
    I used to think I was crazy... Now I am sure of it..

  23. #73
    God Bless the Scooter NYYFAN's Avatar
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    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by aeromac76 View Post
    Don't pay attention to W-L records of these guys. By definition, teams looking to trade away pitchers at this point are losing teams, so it is to be expected that their records will be sub par. Sonny Gray and Jacob DeGrom have the same number of wins this year, they are of course not comparable pitchers. ERA better to look at for sure, and some of those guys that were showed did have ERAs that were not great. But this is one of the few years where I do think we need to think regular season as much, if not more, than postseason...

    The reason is that unless something absolutely nuts happens, both us and Boston are going to the postseason. That means one of us is going to have a one game win or go home play in game. Given that it looks like the Mariners could be that team, you are staring at a one game winner take all with James Paxton. Whether it is Boston with Sale or us with Sevy, that is really a close matchup. You could be one hanging slider away from flushing away 105 wins...
    In addition, even if you win that game, you now go play the Astros or the East division winner (so it would be Bos-NY in all liklihood) where you have burned your best pitcher. That means Sale/Sevy only once in a 5 game series against the other team with the rotation lined up perfectly.

    In short, going into that WC game is not just an inconvenience, it is a monstrous handicap to winning the world series. The odds go down A LOT to win it all if you have to go that route.

    JA Happ or Cole Hamels may not be the answer in game 2 or 3 of a playoff series, but if they win an extra 3 or 4 games for you in the regular season it could be enough to avoid that WC game... We have a lot of games against bad teams in the second half, guys like Hamels or Happ an be sure we don't give a lot of them away, such as Gray getting bombed at home does even against bad teams. Also provides insurance if someone goes down..

    In short, a bunch of 6IP, 3 or 4 ER games in the second half, with our offense and bullpen, might be extremely valuable even if you don't expect that kind of effort to win you a duel to death against Justin Verlander in October. What we cannot afford is to have guys go out and find ourselves down 5-0 to Baltimore or TB or the White Sox in the second inning. We cannot throw games away at this point..
    I see your point regarding the regular season. But in a short playoff series I still think degrom takes us to the promised land. Last year we were lucky to get past Cleveland. I'm very concerned with match ups after Sevi. Like you stated if we burn Sevi in a wildcard game we are screwed for the next series should they win.

    Paying a high price for degrom puts us on a path that could last for years. Many of the traded players that have been mentioned don't even have spots on the team now or in the future. Even if we burn the 3 or 4 players, the minors are still loaded.

    'Kick ass. Pop champagne. And get some ho's.'

  24. #74
    God Bless the Scooter NYYFAN's Avatar
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    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    I like the way you think. It's all about the rings this year.
    With this team and degrom, I believe the team could be set for a dynasty run.

    'Kick ass. Pop champagne. And get some ho's.'

  25. #75

    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Mets fans continue to be completely delusional about the return they should get from the Yankees.

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