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  1. #26

    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by ppa79 View Post
    The Mets would say no because its not that great of a package. The Pirates said no to Frazier and Adams. So you add Acevedo, Medina, and Drury and you think you can get a superior pitcher?
    Not that they don't think this way, but I've always found that line of reasoning completely invalid. Presumably, they'd jump on a package like that from, say, the Pirates, even though it's, in practicality, more detrimental to make a deal that benefits literally any other NL team than it is the Yankees.

  2. #27
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    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    The Yankees are oozing with talented prospects, & negotiations interest me quite a bit. So here's an amended offer, based on all of our "recommendations":

    Frazier, Sheffield, Medina, Florial, Acevedo, & Drury for deGrom.

    Three everyday positon players, two (maybe 3) starters, and a potential closer (Acevedo, if he's not a starter). Quite a haul - it'll stand out from any other offer, don't you think? Don't you think the Mets will have to be "overwhelmed" in order to move deGrom?

    In the immortal words from "The Godfather" - this is an "offer they can't refuse"

    Yanks will still have a boatload of talented prospects after this trade, and the Mets will have taken the first painful but necessary step to rebuild. They're likely to be a better team in 2020 with these 6 guys then they are with just deGrom. Keeping deGrom means continuing with "business as usual".

    As far as repercussions from the media and the fan base - this will happen no matter who they deal deGrom to. Perhaps both teams' PR departments can spin this transaction into a new age, where both teams are "working with each other to make NYC the best baseball market in MLB" and to ensure many more Subway World Series in the future.

    Personally, I'd gladly welcome a day where both teams are so relevant again.
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  3. #28

    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    I'm new to this board but have been a lifelong Yankee fan since Joe Pepitone played. In regard to all this conversation about packaging prospects to the Mets for Degrom I highly doubt it will happen for a number of reasons. First, the Met organization is acutely aware of how their fan base reacts and therefore are influenced more by their fans than making a good trade that will help the team. Second, every team knows the Yankees are deeply deficient in matching up starting pitching with the Astros or the Red Sox and therefore the Mets will exert as much pain as possible to cash in on the desperate situation the Yankees are in for a true ace. As for Cashman, I think he realizes the Mets won't be reasonable The Mets are going to demand at least Torres and or Andujar and three high tier prospects such as Medina, Frazier and or Sheffield. And I don't know about you but that seems a too much.

    I know people are going to bite my head off but I think we should just stay pat. We are realistically not going to win the WS this year and that is OK because we have built a team that will be a dynasty for years to come. I know the young fans here are anxious for the title now but I just don't see it. In the playoffs power pitchers with spin will beat power hitters. We have way to many hitters that have holes in their swing. So I just don't see the value in giving up great prospects when in a year we can advance some of these power pitchers we have in the minors. During the regular season the Yankees are built to beat up on meddling pitching as we have seen. But as evidence tonight against Sale they don't look so intimidating. So, I think Cashman will do the right thing and hold on to these valuable prospects escpecially considering how dominant and far ahead Houston is in their starting pitching. As for Happ and Fulcrum why bother?

  4. #29

    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    So what exactly will the Met fan base do if they trade deGrom or Thor to NY for a package of young talent with upside?

    Will they become Sox fans?

    No

    Will they become Yankee fans?

    No

    Will they bitch and whine about it for awhile, but continue to support their team and eventually realize it makes sense?

    Yes
    Hideki Matsui is capable of anything

  5. #30

    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    The Yankees are oozing with talented prospects, & negotiations interest me quite a bit. So here's an amended offer, based on all of our "recommendations":

    Frazier, Sheffield, Medina, Florial, Acevedo, & Drury for deGrom.

    That's an absolute overpay.

  6. #31
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    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by LouisLitt View Post
    That's an absolute overpay.
    It is, but it’s kind of the only feasible scenario where the Mets keep their grubby mitts off of Torres and Andujar.

  7. #32

    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Yankees shouldn't be paying that much of a tax; they have enough prospects to get it done without sending the Mets their #1 prospect, #1 pitching prospect, a teenager who might have the highest upside out of anyone in the system in Medina, and just for sh.ts and giggles, Frazier and Drury. Cashman never does these kind of deals.

  8. #33
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    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by LouisLitt View Post
    Yankees shouldn't be paying that much of a tax; they have enough prospects to get it done without sending the Mets their #1 prospect, #1 pitching prospect, a teenager who might have the highest upside out of anyone in the system in Medina, and just for sh.ts and giggles, Frazier and Drury. Cashman never does kinds of deals.
    Nobody in the league ever does those kinds of deals, and that includes even the biggest overpays.
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  9. #34
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    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by ppa79 View Post
    The Mets would say no because its not that great of a package. The Pirates said no to Frazier and Adams. So you add Acevedo, Medina, and Drury and you think you can get a superior pitcher?
    The Pirates' bad decision doesn't factor into a trade with the Mets.

    Luis Medina is no joke either.

  10. #35
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    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by NerfBall55 View Post
    So what exactly will the Met fan base do if they trade deGrom or Thor to NY for a package of young talent with upside?

    Will they become Sox fans?

    No

    Will they become Yankee fans?

    No

    Will they bitch and whine about it for awhile, but continue to support their team and eventually realize it makes sense?

    Yes
    When the Mets traded Seaver Mets fans stopped coming to their games for years. Same thing would happen if they ever traded deGrom to the Yankees.

  11. #36
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    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by NerfBall55 View Post
    So what exactly will the Met fan base do if they trade deGrom or Thor to NY for a package of young talent with upside?

    Will they become Sox fans?

    No

    Will they become Yankee fans?

    No

    Will they bitch and whine about it for awhile, but continue to support their team and eventually realize it makes sense?

    Yes
    All well and good but doesn't speak to the fact the Wilpons get to make the call here. There were no lack of reports that Fred Wilpon threw a fit when the Yankees traded for Stanton. Does that make any competitive sense from a Mets standpoint? A Mets killer gets taken out of the division ... and the Mets owner is angry.

    If you don't like those reports, just look at track record. Last significant Mets-Yankees trade: Between 2001 and 2002, David Justice for Robin Ventura. And neither at that point was a performer on the level of deGrom. And Nelson Doubleday still owned half of the Mets back then.

    and no, Mets fans won't "eventually realize it makes sense" if deGrom is the tipping point in the Yankees winning the World Series. They'll resent it for the rest of their lives. Know many Mets fans?

    Quote Originally Posted by ymike673 View Post
    When the Mets traded Seaver Mets fans stopped coming to their games for years. Same thing would happen if they ever traded deGrom to the Yankees.
    What compounded the Seaver deal was they got a crap package from Cincinnati, future journeyman outfielder Steve Henderson, less-than-journeyman outfielder Dan Norman, journeyman pitcher Pat Zachry, light-hitting infielder Doug Flynn.

    But you're right, Wilpons not sending Jacob to the Bronx. And even if they got a good package, I'm not sure people realize how crazed with bitterness Mets fans would get if deGrom helped the Yankees win the World Series. In my workplace last night the Mets fans were clapping and jumping up and down and cheering as the Red Sox beat up on the Yankees. This is consistent with behavior I've seen from Mets fans for oh, 45 years. Most bitter fan base in baseball, the Mets fans. They desire a Yankee loss more than a Mets win. DeGrom with a ring on the Yankees might just drive them to mass violence lol.

    Or more likely, to apathy, which is what the Wilpons are really afraid of.

  12. #37
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    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    The Mets are fighting the Marlins for the bottom with degrom. If they don't do a deal then they will remain a bottom team for a long time. Philly, Nats, and Braves are all on the upswing.

    'Kick ass. Pop champagne. And get some ho's.'

  13. #38
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    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by NYYFAN View Post
    The Mets are fighting the Marlins for the bottom with degrom. If they don't do a deal then they will remain a bottom team for a long time. Philly, Nats, and Braves are all on the upswing.
    totally agree. DeGrom is 30, the Mets must cash in that chip now and re-stock.

  14. #39

    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by NYYFAN View Post
    The Mets are fighting the Marlins for the bottom with degrom. If they don't do a deal then they will remain a bottom team for a long time. Philly, Nats, and Braves are all on the upswing.
    It might take getting swept by the Marlins to knock some sense into them.

  15. #40
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    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by HelloNewman View Post
    totally agree. DeGrom is 30, the Mets must cash in that chip now and re-stock.
    I agree. That's why I'm on board with overwhelming them with quality & quantity, vs. giving up Torres or Andujar.

    I guess all I really care about is the Yankees getting to the WS - I'm in favor of doing anything that helps their chances. Cashman has enough pieces. He seems to be a good negotiator. He needs to put on his sales hat & make this happen!
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  16. #41

    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedog61 View Post
    I'm new to this board but have been a lifelong Yankee fan since Joe Pepitone played. In regard to all this conversation about packaging prospects to the Mets for Degrom I highly doubt it will happen for a number of reasons. First, the Met organization is acutely aware of how their fan base reacts and therefore are influenced more by their fans than making a good trade that will help the team. Second, every team knows the Yankees are deeply deficient in matching up starting pitching with the Astros or the Red Sox and therefore the Mets will exert as much pain as possible to cash in on the desperate situation the Yankees are in for a true ace. As for Cashman, I think he realizes the Mets won't be reasonable The Mets are going to demand at least Torres and or Andujar and three high tier prospects such as Medina, Frazier and or Sheffield. And I don't know about you but that seems a too much.

    I know people are going to bite my head off but I think we should just stay pat. We are realistically not going to win the WS this year and that is OK because we have built a team that will be a dynasty for years to come. I know the young fans here are anxious for the title now but I just don't see it. In the playoffs power pitchers with spin will beat power hitters. We have way to many hitters that have holes in their swing. So I just don't see the value in giving up great prospects when in a year we can advance some of these power pitchers we have in the minors. During the regular season the Yankees are built to beat up on meddling pitching as we have seen. But as evidence tonight against Sale they don't look so intimidating. So, I think Cashman will do the right thing and hold on to these valuable prospects escpecially considering how dominant and far ahead Houston is in their starting pitching. As for Happ and Fulcrum why bother?
    You’ve been a fan fir 50 years and are saying, “realistically not going to win the WS this year”?

    Come on. You know better than that. In 50 years, you’ve certainly seen surprises. But on top of that, you’remaking This statement in the face of a proposal to add DeGrom to the staff? With him, the Yankees might be the favorites.

  17. #42

    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    Clint Frazier
    Brandon Drury
    Luis Medina
    Domingo Acevedo
    Chance Adams

    This is an outstanding jump-start package for any rebuilding team with a crappy farm system, including the Mets:

    Two young, cost-controlled ML-ready position players, one who's semi-proven in Drury @ 2nd & 3rd, and a versatile OFer who could be a star in Frazier.

    A potential top-of-the rotation starter that's about 3 years away in Medina, who's electric, raw stuff could be the best in a stable full of pitching prospects. Acevedo's ceiling may be as a #3 starter, or a Betances-like closer, and should be ready for 2019. Chance Adams could shore up the back of the rotation both this year & in 2019.

    Who else can put together a better package? No one that I know of. Someone can probably offer a better top prospect, but the Mets need quantity as well as quality. Their fan base should easily see this is an excellent quality package in exchange for giving up Jacob deGrom.

    The Yankees can afford to give up all this talent in order to get a true ace for 2.5 seasons. The three-headed monster of Severino-deGrom-Tanaka pushes Gray back to #4 and CC to #5. IMO he makes them a championship favorite. He is the missing piece.

    Looking ahead to 2019 and beyond, the Yanks will still have a loaded outfield with backup depth (Florial, McKinney, Ellsbury) for the next few seasons, and can still be able to go out and get a veteran OFer if need be.

    They'll still have a loaded infield with backup depth (Torreyes, Estrada, Wade & more) and can go out and get a 1st baseman if Bird never hits his ceiling.

    They'll still have top pitching prospects in German, Loaisiga, Sheffield, Abreu, Perez, Tate, Sauer and Schmidt, as well as Jordan Montgomery coming back in 2019 to replace CC.

    If I'm either GM, I say yes to this deal, thinking I got the better end of it. What a blockbuster deal.
    I love the idea that the Yankees should push the envelope to get DeGrom. Probably need to tweak the package, but I think your thoughts are in the right direction.

    Obviously Met fans would be upset at the thought of helping the Yankees, but right now they are beyond hopeless, a fan base who started the season on a high only to watch those hopes crash and burn. If overwhelmed with the right package, it could actually help them to restore hope and at the same time feel like they’ve fleeced the Yankees.

    The down side to such a trade for the Yankees is that they would be one DeGrom injury away from turning this into a disaster for them. Still worth it.

    Just to nit pick, drop Gray to #4 and CC #5? Really? Right now I want to drop Gray out of the rotation. And right now CC is #2, so he’s right there with Tanaka for 3/4.

  18. #43
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    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    I love the idea that the Yankees should push the envelope to get DeGrom. Probably need to tweak the package, but I think your thoughts are in the right direction.

    Obviously Met fans would be upset at the thought of helping the Yankees, but right now they are beyond hopeless, a fan base who started the season on a high only to watch those hopes crash and burn. If overwhelmed with the right package, it could actually help them to restore hope and at the same time feel like they’ve fleecedthe Yankees.

    The down side to such a trade for the Yankees is that they would be one DeGrom injury away from turning this into a disaster for them. Still worth it.

    Just to nit pick, drop Gray to #4 and CC #5? Really? Right now I want to drop Gray out of the rotation. And right now CC is #2, so he’s right there with Tanaka for 3/4.
    Good post. All valid points. Lol, after last night I agree with dropping Gray out of any home game start. I might start him on the road, but only if necessary.
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  19. #44

    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    Good post. All valid points. Lol, after last night I agree with dropping Gray out of any home game start. I might start him on the road, but only if necessary.
    Honestly Casey Stengel would have found a way to use Sonny exclusively on the road, and he would have gotten something useful out of him. The guy was a mad genius.

  20. #45
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    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Andujar/Frazier/Sheffield/Abreu would get it done for deGrom. No other team beats that deal and the Mets likely accept it. And their fanbase would like it.


    However, I don't believe Cashman does it. I think he would do two of those guys and fill out the rest with lesser prospects.

  21. #46
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    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    btw I'm VERY hesitant on trading Sheffield. Really hope they don't. I have good feeling about him.

  22. #47
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    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Honestly Casey Stengel would have found a way to use Sonny exclusively on the road, and he would have gotten something useful out of him. The guy was a mad genius.

    lol the Einstein of MLB.
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  23. #48
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    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    I agree. That's why I'm on board with overwhelming them with quality & quantity, vs. giving up Torres or Andujar.

    I guess all I really care about is the Yankees getting to the WS - I'm in favor of doing anything that helps their chances. Cashman has enough pieces. He seems to be a good negotiator. He needs to put on his sales hat & make this happen!
    I don't want to give up Andujar, but would to get degrom. Andujar.can be replaced and won't be the difference in going to the World Series. degrom probably gets you to the Series and for a few years. When you see Gray blow up, it makes you really realize we need a another shut down ace. degrom is the missing piece.

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  24. #49
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    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by SLURPEE View Post
    Andujar/Frazier/Sheffield/Abreu would get it done for deGrom. No other team beats that deal and the Mets likely accept it. And their fanbase would like it.


    However, I don't believe Cashman does it. I think he would do two of those guys and fill out the rest with lesser prospects.
    I understand why people keep throwing out this type of package, but it's never going to happen. Not because of personal opinion here, but because it's cartoonishly excessive. Please understand I'm not saying that in a mocking way, I just think that as fans we're creating these packages based on the need to "outbid ourselves" if you will, and in the process are losing sight of the actual, real-world trade value of these players/prospects we're discussing.

    This is off the top of my head, but I'd wager an Andujar, Frazier, Sheffield, Abreu package would be in conversation for the largest value of talent (evaluated at the time of the deal) ever traded in the history of the sport - probably behind even the craziness of the Colon deal brokered by the basically recklessly negligent Expos 16 years ago - and we're in an analytical era where prospect are respected more than ever.

    I understand the need to overpay, but these types of packages go beyond that...and by a lot, too. The Yankees happen to have more trade chips than anyone, but that doesn't mean the standard for an "overpay" changes; adding "four pieces" to a trade package isn't the same with the Yankees and other teams. Especially when one of them is a player who's shown All-Star potential at the ML level.
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  25. #50
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    Re: A Blockbuster That Makes Both NY Teams Better - Think About It

    Quote Originally Posted by NYYFAN View Post
    I don't want to give up Andujar, but would to get degrom. Andujar.can be replaced and won't be the difference in going to the World Series. degrom probably gets you to the Series and for a few years. When you see Gray blow up, it makes you really realize we need a another shut down ace. degrom is the missing piece.
    I begrudgingly will agree to give up Andujar if it makes this deal work. I want to see this team in WS really bad. On a selfish note, I have no idea if I'll be on this earth next year. I'd like to see a championship this year. Sonny Gray, the Astros & the Red Sox are making all this necessary.
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

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