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  1. #1

    Embrace debate: Sign Machado, move Andujar to 1B, adios Bird

    If this isn't in the right section, my bad

    Thread title is the topic at hand. Stole the idea from a poster on another forum I frequent.

    If the Yanks were to sign Manny - who would be willing to move back to 3B - and they feel inclined to keep Andujar, would you be willing to part ways with Bird and have Miguel man 1B?

  2. #2
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    Re: Embrace debate: Sign Machado, move Andujar to 1B, adios Bird

    No. Bird will outhit Andj by a lot.
    Calmer than you are

    7/30/2017: The day the Minnesota Twins bought a prospect from the New York Yankees.

  3. #3
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    Re: Embrace debate: Sign Machado, move Andujar to 1B, adios Bird

    Yankees are not going to sign either Harper or Manny. Let some other team give him a 10 or 12 year deal.

  4. #4

    Re: Embrace debate: Sign Machado, move Andujar to 1B, adios Bird

    Quote Originally Posted by ncyankeeefan View Post
    Yankees are not going to sign either Harper or Manny. Let some other team give him a 10 or 12 year deal.
    I wouldn't be surprised, nor mad, if we pass on either. Certainly isn't a "need" for either of them.

  5. #5
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    Re: Embrace debate: Sign Machado, move Andujar to 1B, adios Bird

    Pitching, Pitching, Pitching. That is what Cashman will spend the money for.

  6. #6
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    Re: Embrace debate: Sign Machado, move Andujar to 1B, adios Bird

    Quote Originally Posted by ncyankeeefan View Post
    Yankees are not going to sign either Harper or Manny. Let some other team give him a 10 or 12 year deal.
    Quote Originally Posted by ymike673
    Pitching, Pitching, Pitching. That is what Cashman will spend the money for.
    All of this.

    I'm excited about the idea of an infield comprised of Bird, Torres, Didi, and Andujar. There's no room there for Manny. Hard pass.

    I'm equally excited about an outfield with Judge, Stanton, and Florial. Harper wouldn't be a terrible get, but he's going to be historically expensive.

    I'm less enthused with the future state of the rotation. Sevy is dynamite. Tanaka's elbow scares me, more than a little. German is suddenly exciting, but obviously the sample size is miniscule. Sheffield is still a year or two away. CC? Gray? Montgomery? I like them all, but I'm not overly confidant about their success on any given day. If the Yankees are going to spend money to improve an already-excellent team, it needs to be in the rotation. I'll pass on Manny, and on Harper, if it means we can add a top of the rotation starter.

    Adding a big-name free agent is great if you're filling a need. The Yankees just have no need for Manny right now, and the need for Harper is dubious, at best.

    "But what people tend to forget...is that being a Yankee is as much about character as it is about performance; as much about who you are as what you do."
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  7. #7

    Re: Embrace debate: Sign Machado, move Andujar to 1B, adios Bird

    I agree that pitching, and extending some of the young incumbents, will and should be the priority, not Machado or Harper.

    But if they were to sign Machado, they still would want to keep Bird rather than Andujar. They need lefty power to balance all the RHers.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncyankeeefan View Post
    Yankees are not going to sign either Harper or Manny. Let some other team give him a 10 or 12 year deal.
    They have shown interest in trading Machado. I would be very surprise if their interest is just for 1 year only.

  9. #9
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    Re: Embrace debate: Sign Machado, move Andujar to 1B, adios Bird

    Quote Originally Posted by ymike673 View Post
    Pitching, Pitching, Pitching. That is what Cashman will spend the money for.
    They should ideally do this. But will Kershaw hit the market? Also Keuchel hasnt seemed like the same pitcher after the pinched nerve injury last year. There's Miller to spend some money on. But what other starter would we go after?

  10. #10

    Re: Embrace debate: Sign Machado, move Andujar to 1B, adios Bird

    Quote Originally Posted by ChinMusic View Post
    They should ideally do this. But will Kershaw hit the market? Also Keuchel hasnt seemed like the same pitcher after the pinched nerve injury last year. There's Miller to spend some money on. But what other starter would we go after?
    Patrick Corbin seems like the optimal target right now, also he grew up a Yankee fan.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChinMusic View Post
    They should ideally do this. But will Kershaw hit the market? Also Keuchel hasnt seemed like the same pitcher after the pinched nerve injury last year. There's Miller to spend some money on. But what other starter would we go after?
    Kershaw, as good as he is, has become injury prone. I highly doubt we’d ever get a full year out of him. I wouldn’t be surprised if we already have our mid rotation guys (2-3-4) in the system with Montgomery, German and Sheffield.

    Today’s young guys - Judge, Sanchez, Severino not to mention Didi will all need to be paid eventually. I would pass on anymore mega contracts on FA’s from another team.

  12. #12
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    Re: Embrace debate: Sign Machado, move Andujar to 1B, adios Bird

    Quote Originally Posted by ChinMusic View Post
    They should ideally do this. But will Kershaw hit the market? Also Keuchel hasnt seemed like the same pitcher after the pinched nerve injury last year. There's Miller to spend some money on. But what other starter would we go after?
    Corbin. Also go for Miller and possibly re sign Robertson.

  13. #13

    Re: Embrace debate: Sign Machado, move Andujar to 1B, adios Bird

    Quote Originally Posted by jon abbey View Post
    Patrick Corbin seems like the optimal target right now, also he grew up a Yankee fan.
    Always liked him.

  14. #14
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    Lightbulb Re: Embrace debate: Sign Machado, move Andujar to 1B, adios Bird

    Something that needs to be brought into the discussion.

    A lot has been said about the Yankees getting under the luxury tax threshold - yet everyone seems to assume that the Yankees will immediately zoom past that number, damn the results.

    From mlb.com's Glossary:

    A club exceeding the Competitive Balance Tax threshold for the first time must pay a 20 percent tax on all overages. A club exceeding the threshold for a second consecutive season will see that figure rise to 30 percent, and three or more straight seasons of exceeding the threshold comes with a 50 percent luxury tax. If a club dips below the luxury tax threshold for a season, the penalty level is reset. So, a club that exceeds the threshold for two straight seasons but then drops below that level would be back at 20 percent the next time it exceeds the threshold.

    Clubs that exceed the threshold by $20 million to $40 million are also subject to a 12 percent surtax. Meanwhile, those who exceed it by more than $40 million are taxed at a 42.5 percent rate the first time and a 45 percent rate if they exceed it by more than $40 million again the following year(s).

    Beginning in 2018, clubs that are $40 million or more above the threshold shall have their highest selection in the next Rule 4 Draft moved back 10 places unless the pick falls in the top six. In that case, the team will have its second-highest selection moved back 10 places instead.
    So, let's assume that the Yankees sign both Machado & Harper for $40M AAV each - Cot's currently has the Yankees at roughly $100M for 2019, with nothing for controlled players on the roster (Didi, et al) - their number is around $40.5M in 2018. So, even before arbitration numbers, the CBT is somewhere around $141M. Add the $80M for Machado & Harper immediately takes this club past the $206M threshold and subject to the tax all over again.

    Worse, lets assume that the team continues this behavior - the tax on this behavior becomes even more punitive in future years.

    I don't see any way that this club is going to sign multiple FAs to "set the market" numbers.
    Forgive me for taking the Contrarian view

  15. #15
    Slow in, Fast out ThePinStripes's Avatar
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    Re: Embrace debate: Sign Machado, move Andujar to 1B, adios Bird

    We have good, young, cost controlled infielders.
    We are short on starting pitching

    Your solution is to get rid of infielders and sign FA infielders to big long term contracts.

    Bold move.
    A fool and his money can throw one heck of a party!

  16. #16
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    Re: Embrace debate: Sign Machado, move Andujar to 1B, adios Bird

    Quote Originally Posted by longtimeyankeefan View Post
    Something that needs to be brought into the discussion.

    A lot has been said about the Yankees getting under the luxury tax threshold - yet everyone seems to assume that the Yankees will immediately zoom past that number, damn the results.

    From mlb.com's Glossary:



    So, let's assume that the Yankees sign both Machado & Harper for $40M AAV each - Cot's currently has the Yankees at roughly $100M for 2019, with nothing for controlled players on the roster (Didi, et al) - their number is around $40.5M in 2018. So, even before arbitration numbers, the CBT is somewhere around $141M. Add the $80M for Machado & Harper immediately takes this club past the $206M threshold and subject to the tax all over again.

    Worse, lets assume that the team continues this behavior - the tax on this behavior becomes even more punitive in future years.

    I don't see any way that this club is going to sign multiple FAs to "set the market" numbers.
    I would place the likelihood of teh Yankees signing both Harper and Machado at less than
    0.00001%

    And that is being overly optimistic.

  17. #17

    Re: Embrace debate: Sign Machado, move Andujar to 1B, adios Bird

    Cashman will work out a deal for Michael Fulmer, or at least try to.

  18. #18

    Re: Embrace debate: Sign Machado, move Andujar to 1B, adios Bird

    Quote Originally Posted by longtimeyankeefan View Post
    Something that needs to be brought into the discussion.

    A lot has been said about the Yankees getting under the luxury tax threshold - yet everyone seems to assume that the Yankees will immediately zoom past that number, damn the results.

    From mlb.com's Glossary:



    So, let's assume that the Yankees sign both Machado & Harper for $40M AAV each - Cot's currently has the Yankees at roughly $100M for 2019, with nothing for controlled players on the roster (Didi, et al) - their number is around $40.5M in 2018. So, even before arbitration numbers, the CBT is somewhere around $141M. Add the $80M for Machado & Harper immediately takes this club past the $206M threshold and subject to the tax all over again.

    Worse, lets assume that the team continues this behavior - the tax on this behavior becomes even more punitive in future years.

    I don't see any way that this club is going to sign multiple FAs to "set the market" numbers.
    wow the MLB PA has to fix this. this is a de facto salary cap
    “Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good, too.” – Yogi Berra

  19. #19

    Re: Embrace debate: Sign Machado, move Andujar to 1B, adios Bird

    Yeah, I think they will sign Harper and Corbin as of now, but it's a long way until the winter still.

  20. #20
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    Re: Embrace debate: Sign Machado, move Andujar to 1B, adios Bird

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinStripes View Post
    We have good, young, cost controlled infielders.
    We are short on starting pitching

    Your solution is to get rid of infielders and sign FA infielders to big long term contracts.

    Bold move.

    Like you said, this team needs starting pitching.And unless some intriguing FA SPs appear (Corbin may be an option), the best way to get starting pitching is to trade some of our highly coveted young position players/prospects for pitchers.

    I'm all for signing Harper and/or Machado, two elite young players in their prime and trading for the needed SP help. We get better on offense. We get better on the mound.

    And yes we get more expensive. We've cut pennies to get to this point, but now we are a couple of pieces away from establishing a new dynasty, so we better go for it. Despite the harsh punishments, I will be pissed off if Hal says we can't afford that.

  21. #21
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    Re: Embrace debate: Sign Machado, move Andujar to 1B, adios Bird

    The point of resetting the tax was because right now the Yankees are taxed at a 50% clip. Whether or not they plan to exceed it again is another argument but it would "only" be 20%.

  22. #22

    Re: Embrace debate: Sign Machado, move Andujar to 1B, adios Bird

    That would make for a very righthanded offense. I'd like to see one lefty power bat somewhere in the line-up. Whether Bird becomes that player is still open to question.
    Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. ~ Dale Carnegie

  23. #23

    Re: Embrace debate: Sign Machado, move Andujar to 1B, adios Bird

    Quote Originally Posted by SatchelPaigeYankee View Post
    wow the MLB PA has to fix this. this is a de facto salary cap
    Which was the plan by MLB. I can't believe the players association didn't fight for higher luxury tax thresholds.
    God, I love Yankee fans as they're never satisfied!

  24. #24
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    Re: Embrace debate: Sign Machado, move Andujar to 1B, adios Bird

    As much as I like Machado, we need the money to lock up the young guys, the first in line is Didi, he already proved his worth and is about to become very expensive, I understand it was a push this last winter because we were really close to the salary cap, but there's no reason to not reward him the next offseason, the rest of the guys can wait a year or two, they will become expensive but at least we'll have more time to evaluate them

  25. #25

    Re: Embrace debate: Sign Machado, move Andujar to 1B, adios Bird

    If we're parting ways with Bird the more logical move to me would be to bring in Harper's LH bat to complement a righty-heavy lineup. And then move either Judge, Stanton or Harper to 1B. Although I'd first replace Gardner with Harper and give Bird a shot to get healthy first. And Drury as the super-sub.

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