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  1. #2051
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    Re: 2018 Trade Deadline Thread

    Go rescue Votto Cashman.
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    7/30/2017: The day the Minnesota Twins bought a prospect from the New York Yankees.

  2. #2052

    Re: 2018 Trade Deadline Thread

    I dont think Votto fits our getting under the luxury tax plan.

  3. #2053

    Re: 2018 Trade Deadline Thread

    If we're dead set on having another lefty in the pen, go after Jake Diekman who's an FA after this year. He shouldn't cost too much; include Shreve as a throw in as well.

  4. #2054

    Re: 2018 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Snatch Catch View Post
    I totally agree with you on all of this, with the addition that there's no way that the White Sox take the Moncada/Kopech package over the one you listed.

    It didn't make sense to try and top the considerable Red Sox package that Olney reported at the time had execs calling an overpay even though they got huge value in Sale. My point in this whole hypothetical discussion of whether or not they should have been in on Sale in 2016 is the idea that it would have been really, really, REALLY difficult to navigate the avoidance of including at least one of Torres, Judge, or Severino when you consider their values at the time. It's possible, but topping the Red Sox offer without any of those three seems highly unlikely without the benefit of the crystal ball you introduced.

    That deads the whole conversation to me personally, before we even get into the philsophical questions about whether or not it was the right time for such a move (and I agree with you that it wasn't the right time).
    I think we are pretty much on the same page but looking at it from a different perspective. We weren't in the right position to make such a trade and it was nearly impossible not to lose one of our core pieces.

    But bringing it to this year's trade deadline. I would certainly argue that this is the right time to make a trade for an ace (deGrom, Thor, Bumgarner, or Snell). Now can we do so without including Gleyber or Andujar? And does it make sense to overpay with a boatload of very good pieces knowing that one or two of them will likely become stars?

    Is something like Frazier, Sheffield, Florial, Loaisiga, and Wade too much to give up?

  5. #2055
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    Re: 2018 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob035 View Post
    I think we are pretty much on the same page but looking at it from a different perspective. We weren't in the right position to make such a trade and it was nearly impossible not to lose one of our core pieces.

    But bringing it to this year's trade deadline. I would certainly argue that this is the right time to make a trade for an ace (deGrom, Thor, Bumgarner, or Snell). Now can we do so without including Gleyber or Andujar? And does it make sense to overpay with a boatload of very good pieces knowing that one or two of them will likely become stars?

    Is something like Frazier, Sheffield, Florial, Loaisiga, and Wade too much to give up?
    Absolutely 100% to the bolded.

    That package is technically an overpay, and that's definitely not Cashman's MO, but the Yanks are in position and can actually afford to do it if they feel the pitcher is a significant difference maker to their postseason odds. I'm extremely curious to see if the notorious "fair value" guy in Cashman is willing to go above and beyond for a keystone piece - it's one of the most intriguing aspects of the deadline for me.
    Jaret Wright's 2005 Cy Young Season: 20-3, 3.04 ERA

  6. #2056

    Re: 2018 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by yank4life2005 View Post
    I dont think Votto fits our getting under the luxury tax plan.
    Yankees, like the Red Sox, should be thinking about championships, not getting under threshold.

  7. #2057

    Re: 2018 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vanderlay View Post
    Yankees, like the Red Sox, should be thinking about championships, not getting under threshold.
    that's easy to say when you don't sign the checks
    Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. ~ Dale Carnegie

  8. #2058

    Re: 2018 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fredgmuggs View Post
    that's easy to say when you don't sign the checks
    Iím a customer that pays premium prices. I have no interest in the luxury tax. Same when I go to fine dinning, I want a quality product for what Iím being charged, I have zero interest in the owners cost structure.

  9. #2059
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    Re: 2018 Trade Deadline Thread

    Cashman really needs to make some improvements to this club. Sitting on an extraordinary amount of chips.
    Calmer than you are

    7/30/2017: The day the Minnesota Twins bought a prospect from the New York Yankees.

  10. #2060

    Re: 2018 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vanderlay View Post
    I’m a customer that pays premium prices. I have no interest in the luxury tax. Same when I go to fine dinning, I want a quality product for what I’m being charged, I have zero interest in the owners cost structure.
    And you are receiving a quality product. They can win a title without going over the threshold.

  11. #2061
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    Re: 2018 Trade Deadline Thread

    Three games and people suggesting adding more offense? Votto is not coming so what about some realistic options? Such as a starting pitcher
    2018: the year the USA put children in cages

  12. #2062
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    Re: 2018 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    Three games and people suggesting adding more offense? Votto is not coming so what about some realistic options? Such as a starting pitcher
    Hello? Reality again...

    The offense has been mediocre for a while now. Last 3 weeks, we're ranked 15th in baseball. Some improvements can be made on both offense and pitching.
    Calmer than you are

    7/30/2017: The day the Minnesota Twins bought a prospect from the New York Yankees.

  13. #2063

    Re: 2018 Trade Deadline Thread

    And in May, they were second best in wRC+. Teams have down times, it doesn't mean you need surgery.
    More than likely, July will see the offence performing at its true level.

  14. #2064
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    Re: 2018 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by b_joseph View Post
    And in May, they were second best in wRC+. Teams have down times, it doesn't mean you need surgery.
    More than likely, July will see the offence performing at its true level.
    Who is requesting surgery? Improvements can be made on offense. Simple as.

    We're 27th out of 30 in 1B production. It's been a big problem for us all season.
    Calmer than you are

    7/30/2017: The day the Minnesota Twins bought a prospect from the New York Yankees.

  15. #2065

    Re: 2018 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    Who is requesting surgery? Improvements can be made on offense. Simple as.

    We're 27th out of 30 in 1B production. It's been a big problem for us all season.
    I'd give Greg Bird at least the month to get it together possibly the rest of the year. In the meantime, it doesn't hurt to sniff around Votto. It's a tough trade to make though because you'd need the Reds to take Ellsbury (with some sort of release option) to make it work luxury tax wise and still leave something for a pitcher (no sense in getting Votto without also improving the pitching). Plus you're locking in big money to a guy in his mid 30's who is signed until he is 40. Votto might hit like Ortiz though make that all moot, but he'd be one of a few exceptions, definitely not the norm.

    Jose Abreu might make more sense even though he's not the lefty bat we need. He's got a year and a half of control, so if we want to move Stanton or Judge to 1B long term he could be a bridge.

    Still you have to first hope Bird turns it around over the next month first.

  16. #2066
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    Re: 2018 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by primetime714 View Post
    I'd give Greg Bird at least the month to get it together possibly the rest of the year. In the meantime, it doesn't hurt to sniff around Votto. It's a tough trade to make though because you'd need the Reds to take Ellsbury (with some sort of release option) to make it work luxury tax wise and still leave something for a pitcher (no sense in getting Votto without also improving the pitching). Plus you're locking in big money to a guy in his mid 30's who is signed until he is 40. Votto might hit like Ortiz though make that all moot, but he'd be one of a few exceptions, definitely not the norm.

    Jose Abreu might make more sense even though he's not the lefty bat we need. He's got a year and a half of control, so if we want to move Stanton or Judge to 1B long term he could be a bridge.

    Still you have to first hope Bird turns it around over the next month first.
    Yeah, agreed with all this. Obviously the potential is there with Bird, but between the injuries and complete lack of production, it needs to manifest itself very soon. This is a win now team. You can't just have all the patience in the world with how competitive the division is.

    I don't know how they'd make the Abreu trade work money wise. I think the Votto trade would make a lot of sense for everyone. The Reds honestly owe it to Joey Votto. He's a generational hitter, the man deserves better.
    Calmer than you are

    7/30/2017: The day the Minnesota Twins bought a prospect from the New York Yankees.

  17. #2067
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    Re: 2018 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by primetime714 View Post
    I'd give Greg Bird at least the month to get it together possibly the rest of the year. In the meantime, it doesn't hurt to sniff around Votto. It's a tough trade to make though because you'd need the Reds to take Ellsbury (with some sort of release option) to make it work luxury tax wise and still leave something for a pitcher (no sense in getting Votto without also improving the pitching). Plus you're locking in big money to a guy in his mid 30's who is signed until he is 40. Votto might hit like Ortiz though make that all moot, but he'd be one of a few exceptions, definitely not the norm.

    Jose Abreu might make more sense even though he's not the lefty bat we need. He's got a year and a half of control, so if we want to move Stanton or Judge to 1B long term he could be a bridge.

    Still you have to first hope Bird turns it around over the next month first.
    Would be much better to not trade Ellsbury in this deal. Get reds to trade Votto plus include 10 MM$ this year plus 20 MM$ next 2 years in exchange for Shreve and Walker. This way you open up 2 40man spots and you can keep collecting on his insurance in the meantime, and you dont have to get him to waive his NTC. If he ever forces his way off the DL, then you can just DFA him.

  18. #2068
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    Re: 2018 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ChinMusic View Post
    Would be much better to not trade Ellsbury in this deal. Get reds to trade Votto plus include 10 MM$ this year plus 20 MM$ next 2 years in exchange for Shreve and Walker. This way you open up 2 40man spots and you can keep collecting on his insurance in the meantime, and you dont have to get him to waive his NTC. If he ever forces his way off the DL, then you can just DFA him.
    Couldn't work that way. The CBA stipulates that traded money be allocated evenly across the full term of the contract.
    Calmer than you are

    7/30/2017: The day the Minnesota Twins bought a prospect from the New York Yankees.

  19. #2069

    Re: 2018 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ChinMusic View Post
    Would be much better to not trade Ellsbury in this deal. Get reds to trade Votto plus include 10 MM$ this year plus 20 MM$ next 2 years in exchange for Shreve and Walker. This way you open up 2 40man spots and you can keep collecting on his insurance in the meantime, and you dont have to get him to waive his NTC. If he ever forces his way off the DL, then you can just DFA him.
    Reds management - letís trade Votto for Shreve and Walker.
    Not possible.

  20. #2070

    Re: 2018 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMuntz View Post
    Speaking of Rutherford, heís posting an .806 OPS in high A ball this year. Nice to see him bouncing back even though heís no longer in our system.
    Was amusing to see how many people gave up on him when he was traded last year. I still think he's got a bright future.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  21. #2071
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    Re: 2018 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    Couldn't work that way. The CBA stipulates that traded money be allocated evenly across the full term of the contract.
    That will work too. If its 50 million over 5 years, that means we get 5 million dollars off this year on 1/2 of a year of Votto's salrary. Were still under, right?

  22. #2072
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    Re: 2018 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Portbb View Post
    Reds management - letís trade Votto for Shreve and Walker.
    Not possible.
    It would be better to trade him for Ellsbury? They are trading for salary relief.

  23. #2073
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    Re: 2018 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ChinMusic View Post
    That will work too. If its 50 million over 5 years, that means we get 5 million dollars off this year on 1/2 of a year of Votto's salrary. Were still under, right?
    I mean maybe, but the idea is really you want the whole thing off so you can go after a SP as well. That's why the Ells thing makes sense.

    Let's say Ells + Bird + Wade + lottery lower level.
    Calmer than you are

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  24. #2074
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    Re: 2018 Trade Deadline Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Portbb View Post
    Reds management - letís trade Votto for Shreve and Walker.
    Not possible.
    Well, with that contract into his declining years, he just might have negative value.

    Hence, why they may or may not be willing to take on Ellsburry's mistake.
    [B]WARNING![/B] This post may be offensive to little girly men or women with soft feelings.

    Never [B]argue with an idiot[/B]. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

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