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  1. #1101
    Word of the Year is Complicit ojo's Avatar
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    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    I'm 100% sure about that. The Astros kept four guys off the table completely, who were ranked 10, 20, 62 and 83 by BP going into 2018. They ended up dealing a few guys that barely squeaked into BP's top 100 and some that didn't even crack that list. Gleyber Torres was the 3rd ranked prospect by BP and pretty much a consensus view super star shortstop. No way any GM in baseball trades him+ for a guy coming off an injury plagued 2016 and a subpar 2017. Zero chance.

    I was ok with Frazier + Adams, or even with Andujar, for Cole. Zero appetite for including Gleyber, even straight up.
    And that'd be your right, because let's face it, the Yankees aren't in the same ballpark with Houston in developing and maximizing pitching potential.

    All it'd have taken was another team that viewed Cole as fixable as the Astros did to establish the market. The implied players you referenced were off the table because they simply weren't compelled to move them.

    My guess is the Astros viewed Cole as a prime candidate to realize his full potential by employing their emphasis on spin rates that has played a huge role in their SP success story.
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  2. #1102
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    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    I think Frazier and Florial or Sheff could have gotten it done for Cole rather easily. Florial and Sheffield were both made untouchable.
    Calmer than you are

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  3. #1103

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    I think Frazier and Florial or Sheff could have gotten it done for Cole rather easily. Florial and Sheffield were both made untouchable.
    Clint Frazier is going to end up like all that produce my wife buys that never makes its way into a meal and then gets thrown out two weeks later. Huge missed opportunity to trade him for something of value.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  4. #1104

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    I think Frazier and Florial or Sheff could have gotten it done for Cole rather easily. Florial and Sheffield were both made untouchable.
    For sure. I still contend it didn't even have to be that much. It just needed to be Frazier and a bit more than they were offering. I think Cash haggled too much on the secondary guys. I think Frazier and Adams (rumored he only offered "or") plus a few other secondary pieces would've done the trick. But a Florial or Sheffield in that deal would've been an easy deal for the Pirates to make at that time. And if they were dead set on not moving that potential they did have Montgomery as another piece that definitely could've closed it and one that stood to lose his rotation spot as a result of that trade anyway.

  5. #1105

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    The more I reflect on Boone's failures in that playoff round, the more I place responsibility onto Cashman. This was his hire and his coaching staff. It's up to him to fix it, one way or another. The following quote from him doesn't comfort me if Boone was following the front office game plan because he didn't want to deviate from it and be questioned by Cashman. It also doesn't give me comfort if Boone deviated from the game plan and stayed with Severino and CC longer than he should have with a rested bullpen. Whatever happened, it reflects badly on Cashman and his baseball operations. There's no getting around that reality.

    Part of maintaining that new culture is fighting fiercely to protect it, Cashman said last week before the wild card game. From his perspective, that means having difficult conversations. Speaking generally, he used interactions with his manager and coaching staff as an example.

    ďIf a coach or a manager decides to do something with the lineup, or pitch usage, or play one player versus another, and if that comes at the expense of your philosophy or runs counter to your philosophy, then youíve got to call that coach or manager on the carpet,Ē Cashman said. ďVersus, Ďah, let it slide.í You canít let things slide. You have to constantly reinforce and educate and do battle with it. You also challenge them.Ē

    Indeed, Cashman canít let this slide. One bad decision in a critical game counts as a bad night. But compounding that mistake with another egregious miscalculation just 24 hours later signals a larger problem. How the Yankees react will be telling.
    https://theathletic.com/569706/2018/...rce=dailyemail

  6. #1106

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by primetime714 View Post
    For sure. I still contend it didn't even have to be that much. It just needed to be Frazier and a bit more than they were offering. I think Cash haggled too much on the secondary guys. I think Frazier and Adams (rumored he only offered "or") plus a few other secondary pieces would've done the trick. But a Florial or Sheffield in that deal would've been an easy deal for the Pirates to make at that time. And if they were dead set on not moving that potential they did have Montgomery as another piece that definitely could've closed it and one that stood to lose his rotation spot as a result of that trade anyway.
    Frazier wasn't healthy. Thus, he wasn't trade-able. And Gerrit Cole wouldn't have meant a World Series for the Yankees, anyway. They got sub-par seasons from Judge, Sanchez, Stanton, Bird, Severino, etc. That was a deficit too large to overcome.

  7. #1107

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    First strike against Cashman's off season is retaining the entire Boone coaching staff according to George King. I will not defend this decision as I see it as a major problem. He better be right as I will be highly critical of him if the same issues crop up next season.

  8. #1108
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    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    The more I reflect on Boone's failures in that playoff round, the more I place responsibility onto Cashman. This was his hire and his coaching staff. It's up to him to fix it, one way or another. The following quote from him doesn't comfort me if Boone was following the front office game plan because he didn't want to deviate from it and be questioned by Cashman. It also doesn't give me comfort if Boone deviated from the game plan and stayed with Severino and CC longer than he should have with a rested bullpen. Whatever happened, it reflects badly on Cashman and his baseball operations. There's no getting around that reality.



    https://theathletic.com/569706/2018/...rce=dailyemail
    it's one of the main reasons why girardi was let go... he was too "trigger happy" with the bullpen, when the numbers clearly showed that X pitcher should be good for at least 2 times through the order... Boone is essentially doing their bidding and standing behind those decisions bc it's the main separator right now between him and girardi
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  9. #1109
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    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    First strike against Cashman's off season is retaining the entire Boone coaching staff according to George King. I will not defend this decision as I see it as a major problem. He better be right as I will be highly critical of him if the same issues crop up next season.
    That's insane if true. George has posted some whoppers, so, there's hope.
    Equally as calm as ClownPickle ~(+/- 1)

  10. #1110

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    The more I reflect on Boone's failures in that playoff round, the more I place responsibility onto Cashman. This was his hire and his coaching staff. It's up to him to fix it, one way or another. The following quote from him doesn't comfort me if Boone was following the front office game plan because he didn't want to deviate from it and be questioned by Cashman. It also doesn't give me comfort if Boone deviated from the game plan and stayed with Severino and CC longer than he should have with a rested bullpen. Whatever happened, it reflects badly on Cashman and his baseball operations. There's no getting around that reality.



    https://theathletic.com/569706/2018/...rce=dailyemail
    That interview in the athletic is extraordinary, Iím at a loss for words. Essentially Cashman is publicly acknowledging that Boone is a puppet who has zero latitude to make adjustments as game circumstances dictate. My guess is at some point he will back off these comments when he realizes how poorly they are being received, but the truth has been revealed.

  11. #1111

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vanderlay View Post
    That interview in the athletic is extraordinary, Iím at a loss for words. Essentially Cashman is publicly acknowledging that Boone is a puppet who has zero latitude to make adjustments as game circumstances dictate. My guess is at some point he will back off these comments when he realizes how poorly they are being received, but the truth has been revealed.
    I hope he's asked about it at tomorrow's Noon press conference. The media needs to ask him and Boone some tough questions.

  12. #1112

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    I hope he's asked about it at tomorrow's Noon press conference. The media needs to ask him and Boone some tough questions.
    I canít imagine that he doesnít realize how badly those comments reflect on Boone. Iíd be surprised if we donít see some back pedaling.

  13. #1113

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vanderlay View Post
    I can’t imagine that he doesn’t realize how badly those comments reflect on Boone. I’d be surprised if we don’t see some back pedaling.
    After my post about it even Michael Kay talked about those quotes on his radio show this afternoon. He had the same reaction as I did with them.

  14. #1114

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Maybe all of the poor decisions during the games are on Cashman and we shouldnít blame the coaches.

  15. #1115

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Just validates what many of us have been saying since last winter: Boone is merely Cashmanís puppet. Ultimately, all blame falls on his shoulders.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  16. #1116
    Word of the Year is Complicit ojo's Avatar
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    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vanderlay View Post
    That interview in the athletic is extraordinary, Iím at a loss for words. Essentially Cashman is publicly acknowledging that Boone is a puppet who has zero latitude to make adjustments as game circumstances dictate. My guess is at some point he will back off these comments when he realizes how poorly they are being received, but the truth has been revealed.
    People will grasp on to what they want to cling on to.
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  17. #1117
    New Murderer's Row False1's Avatar
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    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ojo View Post
    And that'd be your right, because let's face it, the Yankees aren't in the same ballpark with Houston in developing and maximizing pitching potential.

    All it'd have taken was another team that viewed Cole as fixable as the Astros did to establish the market. The implied players you referenced were off the table because they simply weren't compelled to move them.

    My guess is the Astros viewed Cole as a prime candidate to realize his full potential by employing their emphasis on spin rates that has played a huge role in their SP success story.
    The Yankees viewed Cole as fixable. That's why they went after him. They dangled the #16 prospect in all of baseball as a starting point, and were unwilling to add the #51 prospect in all of baseball alongside him. They valued him, and could have reportedly gotten the deal done with Frazier plus Adams, and presumably other circa-100 level prospects like the Astros dealt.

    And the Yankees have been all over spin rates as a criteria for targeting pitchers.

    The Yanks erred in not meeting the Pirates demands of including both Frazier and Adams, not that they didn't like the pitcher. The Astros didn't outbid the Yankees like ninjas overpaying but covertly knowing they'd underpaid. The Pirates just accepted a quantity package of less value than the one the Yankees had been discussing with them.
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  18. #1118

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post
    Just validates what many of us have been saying since last winter: Boone is merely Cashmanís puppet.
    From that article:

    "To be clear, itís a gross oversimplification to call managers simple puppets for data-driven front offices. "

  19. #1119

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    That's insane if true. George has posted some whoppers, so, there's hope.
    I literally posted that word for word 3 months ago and only got the 'that's insane' part in responses.

  20. #1120

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    The Yankees viewed Cole as fixable. That's why they went after him. They dangled the #16 prospect in all of baseball as a starting point, and were unwilling to add the #51 prospect in all of baseball alongside him. They valued him, and could have reportedly gotten the deal done with Frazier plus Adams, and presumably other circa-100 level prospects like the Astros dealt.

    And the Yankees have been all over spin rates as a criteria for targeting pitchers.

    The Yanks erred in not meeting the Pirates demands of including both Frazier and Adams, not that they didn't like the pitcher. The Astros didn't outbid the Yankees like ninjas overpaying but covertly knowing they'd underpaid. The Pirates just accepted a quantity package of less value than the one the Yankees had been discussing with them.
    Cashman is a prospect hoarder. Not only does he overvalue his prospects but he feels downright insulted when an opposing GM doesn't place the same value on said prospects. He basically didn't want to give up a 5th outfielder and a decent but not great Minor League reliever for a top of the rotation SP. This shouldn't have been a difficult decision. Had they made the trade, the Yankees might still be playing October baseball.

    I don't know what the future holds for Adams and Frasier but their overall stock took a hit this season. Neither of those players will net you a potential future top of the rotation starter..

  21. #1121

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Benefactor View Post
    Cashman is a prospect hoarder. Not only does he overvalue his prospects but he feels downright insulted when an opposing GM doesn't place the same value on said prospects. He basically didn't want to give up a 5th outfielder and a decent but not great Minor League reliever for a top of the rotation SP. This shouldn't have been a difficult decision. Had they made the trade, the Yankees might still be playing October baseball.

    I don't know what the future holds for Adams and Frasier but their overall stock took a hit this season. Neither of those players will net you a potential future top of the rotation starter..
    Easy to say that now. Where were you last November/December?

  22. #1122

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    And actually Frazier took a big step forward when he was on the field, easily leading the IL in OPS at 23.

  23. #1123

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jon abbey View Post
    From that article:

    "To be clear, itís a gross oversimplification to call managers simple puppets for data-driven front offices. "
    Yet that's what detractors will continue to do. I'm not a fan of Boone as Yankee manager and wouldn't mind a managerial change, but I'm not going to call him a puppet.

  24. #1124

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    Easy to say that now. Where were you last November/December?
    I was right here saying pull the trigger, pull the trigger and why haven't you pulled the trigger yet? I was never high on Adams and Frasier is blocked in the field unless you want him to be Gardy's future replacement as the 4th outfielder which would ultimately drive his stock down even further. Stanton can't be the full time DH when you have everyday players like Andujar, Sanchez and possibly Voit on the roster collecting paychecks.

  25. #1125

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Benefactor View Post
    I was right here saying pull the trigger, pull the trigger and why haven't you pulled the trigger yet? I was never high on Adams and Frasier is blocked in the field unless you want him to be Gardy's future replacement as the 4th outfielder which would ultimately drive his stock down even further. Stanton can't be the full time DH when you have everyday players like Andujar, Sanchez and possibly Voit on the roster collecting paychecks.
    Well I was one of those advocating the trade, but I don't remember you espousing that same view. Frazier's head injury is really unfortunate as that is what's diminishing his trade value because I thought he took a step forward when he was healthy and playing the field.

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