+ Reply to Thread
Page 58 of 60 FirstFirst ... 8 48 55 56 57 58 59 60 LastLast
Results 1,426 to 1,450 of 1494
  1. #1426
    NYYF Triple Crown

    CyYoung4Vazquez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    UES

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Since going to the smartest guy in the room philosophy, the Yankees have been to not one World Series let alone win. Iím fine with analytics but not at the mercy of the Yankees biggest strength, money. Most of the more recent championship teams were littered with sizeable signings. When youíre looking at a potential batting order that would consist of Judge/Stanton/Harper or Machado and you have the ability to make it happen, well the decision seems obvious. Of course that assumes the priority is winning championships and not counting inherited money.


  2. #1427
    NYYF Legend

    kan_t's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Quote Originally Posted by CyYoung4Vazquez View Post
    Since going to the smartest guy in the room philosophy, the Yankees have been to not one World Series let alone win. Iím fine with analytics but not at the mercy of the Yankees biggest strength, money. Most of the more recent championship teams were littered with sizeable signings. When youíre looking at a potential batting order that would consist of Judge/Stanton/Harper or Machado and you have the ability to make it happen, well the decision seems obvious. Of course that assumes the priority is winning championships and not counting inherited money.
    The Red Sox and the Dodgers are also going with the smartest guy in the room philosophy. The problem about the Yankees may not be the philosophy. The problem could be that the smartest guy in the room is not smart enough.

  3. #1428

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CyYoung4Vazquez View Post
    Since going to the smartest guy in the room philosophy, the Yankees have been to not one World Series let alone win. Iím fine with analytics but not at the mercy of the Yankees biggest strength, money. Most of the more recent championship teams were littered with sizeable signings. When youíre looking at a potential batting order that would consist of Judge/Stanton/Harper or Machado and you have the ability to make it happen, well the decision seems obvious. Of course that assumes the priority is winning championships and not counting inherited money.
    Who were the big money signings on the 1998-2000 dynasty teams? Cone? El Duque?

  4. #1429
    NYYF Legend

    2JAY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Lexington Ky

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Who were the big money signings on the 1998-2000 dynasty teams? Cone? El Duque?
    You could probably say Irabu is in that mix as he was supposed to be a big signing though he was inked in 97. I think the biggest deal may have been Bernie’s $87.5 million deal when he flirted with leaving the team and going to Boston.

  5. #1430
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Who were the big money signings on the 1998-2000 dynasty teams? Cone? El Duque?
    David Wells. Also, while they got Clemens in a trade, that was really a big-money deal, trading the free-agent contract. Id include him in that group.

  6. #1431

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 2JAY View Post
    You could probably say Irabu is in that mix as he was supposed to be a big signing though he was inked in 97. I think the biggest deal may have been Bernieís $87.5 million deal when he flirted with leaving the team and going to Boston.
    So basically youíre talking about one guy who was a back of the rotation starter for one year and a second guy who was developed in the organization and on whom they spent money to keep him when his turn for free agency came up after theyíd already had their 125 win season in Ď98. Iím sure theyíll do the same with Judge, Severino, Gleyber, etc. when itís their turn. That team wasnít built on big money signings from outside the organization.

  7. #1432
    NYYF Triple Crown

    CyYoung4Vazquez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    UES

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    David Wells. Also, while they got Clemens in a trade, that was really a big-money deal, trading the free-agent contract. Id include him in that group.
    A few others come to mind:
    -Cone (Via trade but fairly big named/money pickup at the deadline)
    -Cecil Fielder (Same as cone)
    -Knoblauch (Got him because the twins couldnt afford his upcoming contract)
    -David Justice (again trade but big money guy)
    -Mussina (Free Agency)

    I mean the 1998 Yankee team had Chili David, Posada/Girardi, Tim Raines and Strawberry on the bench.


  8. #1433
    NYYF Triple Crown

    CyYoung4Vazquez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    UES

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
    The Red Sox and the Dodgers are also going with the smartest guy in the room philosophy. The problem about the Yankees may not be the philosophy. The problem could be that the smartest guy in the room is not smart enough.
    Well and the Red Sox have an ownership that seems to not be so married to staying under the cap.


  9. #1434

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    David Wells. Also, while they got Clemens in a trade, that was really a big-money deal, trading the free-agent contract. Id include him in that group.
    Iíve got a problem with this one for a couple of reasons.

    1. Youíre counting the same money twice because Clemens replaced Wells. So these two represent one slot on each team in the dynasty.

    2. Wells was not a big money free agent when the Yankees brought him on board. The top salary in baseball in 1997 was $10 million. Wells was paid $3.2 million in his first season with the Yankees They got him on the cheap because he was coming off a bad season, 11-14, 5.14 ERA. They took a flyer on him as a reclamation project when he was 34 years old.

  10. #1435
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    San Diego

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
    The Red Sox and the Dodgers are also going with the smartest guy in the room philosophy. The problem about the Yankees may not be the philosophy. The problem could be that the smartest guy in the room is not smart enough.
    Nailed it. I've said this a while ago, but Cashman is just the guy that read moneyball before others in the room. That might have made him the smartest guy in the room 15 years ago, however it's a whole new world right now and Cashman is behind.
    Last edited by ClownPickle; 11-09-18 at 11:54 AM.

  11. #1436
    NYYF Legend

    2JAY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Lexington Ky

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    So basically youíre talking about one guy who was a back of the rotation starter for one year and a second guy who was developed in the organization and on whom they spent money to keep him when his turn for free agency came up after theyíd already had their 125 win season in Ď98. Iím sure theyíll do the same with Judge, Severino, Gleyber, etc. when itís their turn. That team wasnít built on big money signings from outside the organization.
    I agree with that but those Yankee teams also did not have a glaring need for an Ace starter for their rotation like this current Yankee team. And for all the Ace talk that surrounds Severino, I am concerned about his second half struggles. The Yankees maintained that location was the real problem while consistently denying that the problem was tipping pitches. Whatever the problem was, the Yankees nor Severino seemed like that had any real solutions to fix his problems.

  12. #1437

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CyYoung4Vazquez View Post
    A few others come to mind:
    -Cone (Via trade but fairly big named/money pickup at the deadline)
    I agree with Cone and mentioned him when I replied to your post.

    -Cecil Fielder (Same as cone)
    You referred in your post to the Yankeesí most recent championship teams. In my response I focused on the 1998-2000 threepeat dynasty as most emblematic of the most recent champions. Fielder wasnít on any of those 3 teams and he only played half a season on the Ď96 champs.

    -Knoblauch (Got him because the twins couldnt afford his upcoming contract)
    Nope. It was the Twins who signed Knoblauch to the 5 year contract in 1996. It was Knoblauch who requested the trade after the Twins stunk in 1997 (26 games under .500). The Yankees gave up 4 players to get him, including top prospects Christian Guzman and Eric Mi,ton. The argument could be made that the Twins got the better of that deal. The trade had nothing to do with the Twins. Not being able to afford him. Theyíre the oneís who negotiated that contract and agreed to the money.

    -David Justice (again trade but big money guy)
    Played half a season on any of the Yankee championship teams. Big money? The Yankees paid half of his $7 million contract that year when the top salary in baseball was $15 million. As you say, a trade, not a big money signing. And the Yankees gave up 3 players to get him including top prospect Jake Westbrook.

    [QUITE]-Mussina (Free Agency)[/QUOTE]

    Moose did not play on any of the Yankeesí championship teams.

    I mean the 1998 Yankee team had Chili Davis, Posada/Girardi, Tim Raines and Strawberry on the bench.
    Now youíre just being silly. These were big names, not big money back in 1998-2000. Except for Cone and Knoblauch, none of the players you mentioned were core players on championship teams. They were fringe players and did not represent big money. Even El Duque, whom I mentioned, was not signed for big money. The Yankees got him on the cheap because he was an experiment as an older player from Cuba with unknown projections for his performance in MLB.

    Your claim that the most recent championship teams were littered with big money contracts is simply not true. Those teams were built around players who were developed within the organization and with shrewd acquisitions who were often undervalued where they were but flourished with the Yankees. There were a few big money contacts but they were typically the final pieces to a successful team whose core was already in place.

    As I recall, your point was that history has shown that the Yankees do best when they spend money on top players to build a championship team. Midseason acquisitions like Fielder and Justice donít fit that picture. If anything history shows that they should spend money to keep their home grown talent and look to trades to get just the right pieces rather than spending big on whoever happens to be available in free agency in any given year.

  13. #1438

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by 2JAY View Post
    I agree with that but those Yankee teams also did not have a glaring need for an Ace starter for their rotation like this current Yankee team. And for all the Ace talk that surrounds Severino, I am concerned about his second half struggles. The Yankees maintained that location was the real problem while consistently denying that the problem was tipping pitches. Whatever the problem was, the Yankees nor Severino seemed like that had any real solutions to fix his problems.
    I certainly agree that a TOR starter should be their priority. I would try to shake Kluber free from Cleveland. Iím not as pessimistic as you are about Severino. He was a top 3 starter in the league for a year and a half at ages 23-24. He ran into some problems this year in the second half. Thatís pretty normal in a playerís career development. He needs to make some adjustments and I have every confidence that he will. Heís got the stuff, heís serious about his craft, and heís a hard worker.

  14. #1439
    NYYF Triple Crown

    CyYoung4Vazquez's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    UES

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post

    As I recall, your point was that history has shown that the Yankees do best when they spend money on top players to build a championship team. Midseason acquisitions like Fielder and Justice donít fit that picture. If anything history shows that they should spend money to keep their home grown talent and look to trades to get just the right pieces rather than spending big on whoever happens to be available in free agency in any given year.
    Fair enough. Let's talk about getting the right pieces via trade. I would argue that the dynasty team formula leads to (at least an attempt) to acquiring Chris Sale. Or during this last season address needs at the deadline rather than making the McCutcheon move post deadline.

    Incidentally, I would argue that the 2009 Championship happened mostly due to accumulating big ticket items via free agency.

    Listen I don't think the yankees need to build their roster mostly by free agency. However there are two young generational talents sitting on the open market. Neither cost a single prospect. When your team is valued at 4 billion dollars and the ultimate goal is to win titles, you make the move.


  15. #1440
    New Murderer's Row False1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Arizona

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    If anything history shows that they should spend money to keep their home grown talent and look to trades to get just the right pieces rather than spending big on whoever happens to be available in free agency in any given year.
    They should do both - retain elite homegrown talent and import elite talent from elsewhere via trades and FA signings.

    Barring changes, right now this team is looking up at the Red Sox for the next couple seasons. They have a young, inexpensive core. They have a loaded farm system. They have what appears to me to be some no-brainer opportunity to leverage their assets - farm and $$$ - and not only shatter that gap to their main competition but also to create a potential dynasty team. They better not screw it up.

  16. #1441
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Those teams were built around players who were developed within the organization and with shrewd acquisitions who were often undervalued where they were but flourished with the Yankees. There were a few big money contacts but they were typically the final pieces to a successful team whose core was already in place.
    I agree with you, but I'd argue that they've already developed the core and made the shrewd acquisition. They still need a couple of big pieces that I don't think they'll get by those routes. It's time to fill in the holes with money.
    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    - Barry Manilow

  17. #1442

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by False1 View Post
    They should do both - retain elite homegrown talent and import elite talent from elsewhere via trades and FA signings.

    Barring changes, right now this team is looking up at the Red Sox for the next couple seasons. They have a young, inexpensive core. They have a loaded farm system. They have what appears to me to be some no-brainer opportunity to leverage their assets - farm and $$$ - and not only shatter that gap to their main competition but also to create a potential dynasty team. They better not screw it up.
    Iím so tired of this Red Sox worship. A year ago after the Yankees went t9 game 7 of the ALCS and the Red Sox failed to get beyond the first round of the playoffs at best for the 4th year in a row and 8th time in 9 years, the view was just the opposite, that the Red Sox would have trouble catching the Yankees. Youíre just reacting to the moment.

    The Red Sox have their own problems. If JD has another season like this one in 2019, he will opt out of his contract and will be just a fond memory or the Red Sox will have to spend a fortune on top of an already bloated budget to keep him. If he doesnít repeat his 2018 season, itís probably a sign that heís into his post-30 decline phase and the Sox are stuck with him.

    Sale is now a 30 year old coming off a season with shoulder problems, who has always run out of gas late in the season. Letís see what the future holds for him.

    Mookieand Bogaerts are coming off career years. The Red Sox need them to repeatwhat they did in 2018. Whoís their 2Bman. None of their catchers can hit. Devers led the league in errors at 3B. Their bullpen isnít deep and their Closer is a free agent, coming off an inconsistent season.

    But sure weíll be looking up at the Red Sox for years to come. A year ago the Astros were the coming dynasty, the year before that the Cubs, the year before everyone wanted to be like the Royals.

  18. #1443

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    I agree with you, but I'd argue that they've already developed the core and made the shrewd acquisition. They still need a couple of big pieces that I don't think they'll get by those routes. It's time to fill in the holes with money.
    No argument here. I just donít see a TOR starter on the free agent market who impresses me. If they go that route, he better be the right guy because they wonít upgrade just by throwing money at the wall. A trade for Kluber would make sense to me.

  19. #1444
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    No argument here. I just donít see a TOR starter on the free agent market who impresses me. If they go that route, he better be the right guy because they wonít upgrade just by throwing money at the wall. A trade for Kluber would make sense to me.
    Again, I agree. They need a top starter, not just the best guy who happens to be available.

  20. #1445
    Super Moderator matt2351's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Manhattan, NY

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
    The Red Sox and the Dodgers are also going with the smartest guy in the room philosophy. The problem about the Yankees may not be the philosophy. The problem could be that the smartest guy in the room is not smart enough.
    Bingo!!!

  21. #1446

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
    The Red Sox and the Dodgers are also going with the smartest guy in the room philosophy. The problem about the Yankees may not be the philosophy. The problem could be that the smartest guy in the room is not smart enough.
    Perhaps, but until he's replaced we better hope he gets a lot smarter.

  22. #1447
    NYYF Legend

    kan_t's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    Perhaps, but until he's replaced we better hope he gets a lot smarter.
    I hope so. The turnaround of the farm system makes me think that he could learn from mistakes. Hopefully he could speed up his learning curve.

  23. #1448

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
    I hope so. The turnaround of the farm system makes me think that he could learn from mistakes. Hopefully he could speed up his learning curve.
    Or get luckier with his decisions.

  24. #1449
    New Murderer's Row False1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Arizona

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Iím so tired of this Red Sox worship. A year ago after the Yankees went t9 game 7 of the ALCS and the Red Sox failed to get beyond the first round of the playoffs at best for the 4th year in a row and 8th time in 9 years, the view was just the opposite, that the Red Sox would have trouble catching the Yankees. Youíre just reacting to the moment.

    The Red Sox have their own problems. If JD has another season like this one in 2019, he will opt out of his contract and will be just a fond memory or the Red Sox will have to spend a fortune on top of an already bloated budget to keep him. If he doesnít repeat his 2018 season, itís probably a sign that heís into his post-30 decline phase and the Sox are stuck with him.

    Sale is now a 30 year old coming off a season with shoulder problems, who has always run out of gas late in the season. Letís see what the future holds for him.

    Mookieand Bogaerts are coming off career years. The Red Sox need them to repeatwhat they did in 2018. Whoís their 2Bman. None of their catchers can hit. Devers led the league in errors at 3B. Their bullpen isnít deep and their Closer is a free agent, coming off an inconsistent season.

    But sure weíll be looking up at the Red Sox for years to come. A year ago the Astros were the coming dynasty, the year before that the Cubs, the year before everyone wanted to be like the Royals.
    Red Sox worship? Perhaps you've missed my various posts on the fact that I think this season of 108 wins and a WS was somewhat fluky? I certainly don't think the Red Sox are a juggernaut, but I think if you want to go on a run in the AL East while you are setup the way the Yankees are you go in with the mindset that your main competition can sustain and will be just as committed to improve their team as Cashman should be to improving his.

    Your list of ifs and buts can be replicated by someone over at SOSH when talking about the Yankees' near term roster, barring them taking advantage of the position they are in right now.

    They have an opportunity to build off their young, inexpensive core and create a team that should be WS favorites for years to come. I want them to do that. Don't read into it.

  25. #1450

    Re: 2018 Brian Cashman Performance Thread

    Lets see where this is going after the GM meeting no blockbuster trade is always too early , they will pick up a L hand pitcher at bargain $$$ or Happ or name brand player , let the season start , wait again to see if Bird produces fall behind and play catch up ,...rebuild with international players . make a pickup to save $$$ & we will be watching the world series again with someone else in it , because the office feels they can't beat Astros & Reds Sox again .Can't wait for 2109 .

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts