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  1. #801

    Re: 2018 New York Giants Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dabomb2045 View Post
    I read pieces like the one from PFF linked above, and it just makes me scratch my head. What metrics does this franchise use to scout QB's? What are they looking at? What could have possibly made them think Jones is the #1 QB based on his skill set?


    They must just not know how to evaluate players. Or they are looking at the wrong things. What could they have possibly seen to like Jones over Haskins? Haskins has a much better skill set. The only thing I might give Jones a slight edge to is his athleticism. He can run better. All the other attributes you want in a QB, Haskins blows Jones away. Game tape like the one vs Clemson is much more meaningful to me then a stupid Pro Bowl-esque All Star game that defenses dont even try in.
    The sliver of hope that I have for this pick actually working out is 1) The high praise from Brandt and Cutcliffe for Jones, comparing him to both Mannings, 2) Jones was rising on draft boards the closer the draft got, 3) Gettlemans draft was pretty good last year which gives me a little confidence in his ability to evaluate and pick players, and 4) This could be one of those rare, rare, rare instances (ie Rodgers) where most teams scouting was totally off on a QB, and the Giants were actually the only ones to identify him as the highly ranked player he is. All wishful thinking I know, but that is all I have atm to make me not sick about the pick over Allen!

  2. #802
    I Hate Analytics SLURPEE's Avatar
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    Re: 2018 New York Giants Thread

    Does anyone recall tweets/articles of Gettleman being spotted at Duke games?
    So they like Jones so much, but the GM didn't bother to go to any of his games this pass year.

    Gentleman and Giant scouts were spotted multiple times at Oregon games. Too bad Herbert stayed in school. He would have likely been the pick.

  3. #803
    The King dabomb2045's Avatar
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    Re: 2018 New York Giants Thread

    http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york/gi...r-daniel-jones


    "I knew by watching him play that he was tough," Shurmur said. "That's very high on the spectrum for me, is toughness, and Daniel has that. As we went through it, when you watch guys throw -- and there's some very talented throwers, very talented, very accomplished quarterbacks in this year's draft. It's quick that you can fall in love with them at each exposure, but by the end of it, we really felt like he was our guy, and I felt the same as [general manager] Dave [Gettleman]."



    Shurmur appeared to be sold during that trip to Duke, when the Giants' contingent also sat down for two hours with Cutcliffe. It was during this meeting that Cutcliffe compared Jones, at this stage of his career, favorably to Eli and Peyton Manning.
    "He kind of connected some of the things, because there were some comparisons to Eli," Shurmur said after the draft.
    Gettleman was already infatuated. Shurmur appeared on board. Now there was one more faction that needed to give the stamp of approval -- ownership. The Giants had Jones in for a top-30 visit several weeks later. They had all the top quarterbacks in for a visit, but Jones was last. He was given the final opportunity to leave a lasting impression on the Giants' brass, which included owners John Mara and Steve Tisch. They needed to sign off, and they did.


    "The other part of it is he’s a brilliant young man," Cutcliffe said. "Economics major. He's done not [just] good, but extremely well at Duke. So he's innately smart and he's football smart."



    "Just blew me away with his competitiveness. His ability to make things happen in the pocket. His accuracy. But extra work, extra study," Cutcliffe said of what really stood out. "Me coming in on the weekend and seeing he's working -- as a redshirt -- on extra film study."
    As the Giants were completing their evaluation, they reached out to coaches at Duke, beyond Cutcliffe, for information. One Giants coach wanted to know if Jones had the ability to command the locker room and get in a teammate's face if necessary. He was told that would not be a problem. Jones was a fierce and fiery competitor.

  4. #804
    The King dabomb2045's Avatar
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    Re: 2018 New York Giants Thread

    Again, what I keep coming back to is all these compliments of Jones coming from the Giants NONE of them talk about his actual talent and QB skills. Talent wins in sports. Its what seperates nobodies from good players, good players to great, great to legendary. All this stuff about him being smart, a good leader, tough etc. is all well and good. Good traits to have. However, they all mean crap if you dont have the ability to play the position. You need the arm strength. You need the accuracy and touch. You need to be able to have good pocket presence, feel the rush, ad lib, make plays out of nothing. You need to be able to read defenses and not panic when your 1st read isnt there.


    Everything I saw and read, Jones struggles in all those areas. Its like the Giants are looking at the wrong things. They are so obsessed with wanting toughness and a guy who fits their idea of "culture", that they dont care enough about actual QB skills.

    Also the Jones to Eli comparisons are laughable. Eli had elite arm talent coming out of college.

  5. #805

    Re: 2018 New York Giants Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dabomb2045 View Post
    Again, what I keep coming back to is all these compliments of Jones coming from the Giants NONE of them talk about his actual talent and QB skills. Talent wins in sports. Its what seperates nobodies from good players, good players to great, great to legendary. All this stuff about him being smart, a good leader, tough etc. is all well and good. Good traits to have. However, they all mean crap if you dont have the ability to play the position. You need the arm strength. You need the accuracy and touch. You need to be able to have good pocket presence, feel the rush, ad lib, make plays out of nothing. You need to be able to read defenses and not panic when your 1st read isnt there.


    Everything I saw and read, Jones struggles in all those areas. Its like the Giants are looking at the wrong things. They are so obsessed with wanting toughness and a guy who fits their idea of "culture", that they dont care enough about actual QB skills.

    Also the Jones to Eli comparisons are laughable. Eli had elite arm talent coming out of college.
    It's obvious culture means more than talent to the Giants. Wonder how long it will take them to realize culture doesn't win titles

  6. #806
    I Hate Analytics SLURPEE's Avatar
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    Re: 2018 New York Giants Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by spanky185 View Post
    It's obvious culture means more than talent to the Giants. Wonder how long it will take them to realize culture doesn't win titles
    Hopefully just in time for the Trevor Lawrence sweepstakes.

  7. #807
    Let's go Rangers! RhodyYanksFan's Avatar
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    Re: 2018 New York Giants Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by dabomb2045 View Post
    http://www.espn.com/blog/new-york/gi...r-daniel-jones


    "I knew by watching him play that he was tough," Shurmur said. "That's very high on the spectrum for me, is toughness, and Daniel has that. As we went through it, when you watch guys throw -- and there's some very talented throwers, very talented, very accomplished quarterbacks in this year's draft. It's quick that you can fall in love with them at each exposure, but by the end of it, we really felt like he was our guy, and I felt the same as [general manager] Dave [Gettleman]."



    Shurmur appeared to be sold during that trip to Duke, when the Giants' contingent also sat down for two hours with Cutcliffe. It was during this meeting that Cutcliffe compared Jones, at this stage of his career, favorably to Eli and Peyton Manning.
    "He kind of connected some of the things, because there were some comparisons to Eli," Shurmur said after the draft.
    Gettleman was already infatuated. Shurmur appeared on board. Now there was one more faction that needed to give the stamp of approval -- ownership. The Giants had Jones in for a top-30 visit several weeks later. They had all the top quarterbacks in for a visit, but Jones was last. He was given the final opportunity to leave a lasting impression on the Giants' brass, which included owners John Mara and Steve Tisch. They needed to sign off, and they did.


    "The other part of it is he’s a brilliant young man," Cutcliffe said. "Economics major. He's done not [just] good, but extremely well at Duke. So he's innately smart and he's football smart."



    "Just blew me away with his competitiveness. His ability to make things happen in the pocket. His accuracy. But extra work, extra study," Cutcliffe said of what really stood out. "Me coming in on the weekend and seeing he's working -- as a redshirt -- on extra film study."
    As the Giants were completing their evaluation, they reached out to coaches at Duke, beyond Cutcliffe, for information. One Giants coach wanted to know if Jones had the ability to command the locker room and get in a teammate's face if necessary. He was told that would not be a problem. Jones was a fierce and fiery competitor.
    All of those things sound great for a team leader. Would make for an awesome D-line captain, but not for a QB.

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