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  1. #51

    Re: MLB free agency: Yankees targeting Yu Darvish

    Quote Originally Posted by aeromac76 View Post
    I believe we are at a 95% penalty for any dollar over 197M given how many years we've been over. Going under even once restarts us at 20%, so I think the potential to save more than 20M us there..
    This is what a thought too. I thought they wanted to just get under once to reset it. But they added more penalties. Who knows what they are going to do. Getting under once will help a lot I think. It wonít make going over again as bad am I right
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  2. #52
    2009 WORLD CHAMPIONS aeromac76's Avatar
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    Re: MLB free agency: Yankees targeting Yu Darvish

    Quote Originally Posted by fightingirish595 View Post
    This is what a thought too. I thought they wanted to just get under once to reset it. But they added more penalties. Who knows what they are going to do. Getting under once will help a lot I think. It wonít make going over again as bad am I right
    I believe you are right, at least the first couple times we go over after resetting. I think it takes 3 or 4 years of being over consecutively before the penalty maxes out..
    I used to think I was crazy... Now I am sure of it..

  3. #53
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    Re: MLB free agency: Yankees targeting Yu Darvish

    Quote Originally Posted by fightingirish595 View Post
    This is what a thought too. I thought they wanted to just get under once to reset it. But they added more penalties. Who knows what they are going to do. Getting under once will help a lot I think. It wonít make going over again as bad am I right
    I am sure on a go forward basis at least Cashman, if not Steinbrenner as well, is more concerned about the draft pick penalties & international pool money penalties associated with the competitive balance tax than the pure $$ penalties.

  4. #54

    Re: MLB free agency: Yankees targeting Yu Darvish

    Signing a big time free agent seems so unlike the Yankee way recently, not to mention I don't like forcing Montgomery out of the rotation (which this would essentially do).... but Darvish is pretty tempting. He's proven he can be an ace in the American League. The World Series doesn't bother me so much. I trust Cashman.

  5. #55

    Re: MLB free agency: Yankees targeting Yu Darvish

    Quote Originally Posted by jnewmark View Post
    I have mixed feelings about Yu. The WS performance still seems a little odd to me. I know, small sample size and, according to some Astro players, he was tipping his pitches. Yet, he won his first two games in the playoffs, iirc. So, you would think he did not change anything about his delivery, why wasn't he tipping in those first two games ? And why didn't his catcher, teammates , coaches catch on after the first WS performance ? I'm not a conspiracy kind of guy, but something just seems off to me about Yu.
    It's easy as a fan and with the loaded farm system that the Yankees have developed to not want to part with the prospects, but there's only so many positions on the team and we seem to be loaded at the major league level. Yes, we need pitching. But I hate to over pay with prospects for average pitchers like Gray and now maybe Cole. True, Gray may turn out to be a steal along with Cole, but the numbers aren't there to rate a Torres, Frasier, Montgomery or another pitching prospect! For an Ace, sure. But I don't see one out there that Hal is going to pay. I think we should stand pat and see what we do in April and May. Lets see what we got in spring training!
    Last edited by Bigjeep; 12-30-17 at 09:55 AM.
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  6. #56

    Re: MLB free agency: Yankees targeting Yu Darvish

    I have a hard time believing this. This isn't the type of signing Cash would make. Not young and expensive. Maybe this is to get leverage in trade talks.
    Last edited by ppa79; 12-30-17 at 11:57 AM.
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  7. #57

    Re: MLB free agency: Yankees targeting Yu Darvish

    Quote Originally Posted by BomberBrian View Post
    I am sure on a go forward basis at least Cashman, if not Steinbrenner as well, is more concerned about the draft pick penalties & international pool money penalties associated with the competitive balance tax than the pure $$ penalties.
    I can buy what your selling here. That being said. I donít think going over for 1 year or 2 consecutive years will kill you. Itís doing it every year like we have where it hurts you.

    Personally i think Staying under the tax is something the team should commit to, but in the future a situation may arise where going over the tax will be appropriate
    Baseball games are not won with a formula. If you can hit, they will find a place for you

  8. #58

    Re: MLB free agency: Yankees targeting Yu Darvish

    Quote Originally Posted by ppa79 View Post
    I have a hard time believing this. This isn't the type of trade Cash would make. Not young and expensive. Maybe this is to get leverage in trade talks.

    It's not a trade anyone would make. In fact, it's not a trade at all!

  9. #59

    Re: MLB free agency: Yankees targeting Yu Darvish

    Quote Originally Posted by AllRise View Post
    It's not a trade anyone would make. In fact, it's not a trade at all!
    That was a typo on my part. I meant signing.
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  10. #60
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    Re: MLB free agency: Yankees targeting Yu Darvish

    Don't see it unlees they could upload Ellsbury. And the chance of uploading Ellsbury is slim. But I wouldn't doubt Cashman to make something shocking the world. It seems he's very good at it.

  11. #61
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    Re: MLB free agency: Yankees targeting Yu Darvish

    Quote Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
    Don't see it unlees they could upload Ellsbury. And the chance of uploading Ellsbury is slim. But I wouldn't doubt Cashman to make something shocking the world. It seems he's very good at it.
    This is really not that hard to follow along. Not picking on you, just your post and so many like them.

    This is Cots Yankee contracts. This page shows the Yankees about $16 mil under the cap. Others say around $19 due to the possible difference in arbitration cases not yet heard.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...XPAvRQ/pubhtml

    So, if the Yankees sign Darvish for $20 to $25 mil AAV, they will be $1 mil to $9 mil over the cap. Any of Gardner, Hicks, Betances, Warren, Robertson, etc etc etc etc could be moved to get them back under the cap depending on what that number is. Yes, Ellsbury also. Contrary to what you said, Ellsbury is very easy to move, if you pay enough of his paycheck.

    OF and bullpen are the areas they have a surplus of players anyhow. They NEED to move any outfielder anyhow.

    So I don't understand why these types of posts keep popping up. It's like people don't even bother to read the thousand of other posts that say the same exact thing of what I just posted.
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  12. #62
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    Re: MLB free agency: Yankees targeting Yu Darvish

    Quote Originally Posted by budstinks View Post
    This is really not that hard to follow along. Not picking on you, just your post and so many like them.

    This is Cots Yankee contracts. This page shows the Yankees about $16 mil under the cap. Others say around $19 due to the possible difference in arbitration cases not yet heard.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...XPAvRQ/pubhtml

    So, if the Yankees sign Darvish for $20 to $25 mil AAV, they will be $1 mil to $9 mil over the cap. Any of Gardner, Hicks, Betances, Warren, Robertson, etc etc etc etc could be moved to get them back under the cap depending on what that number is. Yes, Ellsbury also. Contrary to what you said, Ellsbury is very easy to move, if you pay enough of his paycheck.

    OF and bullpen are the areas they have a surplus of players anyhow. They NEED to move any outfielder anyhow.

    So I don't understand why these types of posts keep popping up. It's like people don't even bother to read the thousand of other posts that say the same exact thing of what I just posted.
    For me it would take shedding two of those as to go into 2018 with no money for mid season trades is not a good idea. Adding another pitcher now is addressing a ďneedĒ we donít have right now. Maybe June comes and we need an IF due to an unforeseen injury or elsewhere
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  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by budstinks View Post
    This is really not that hard to follow along. Not picking on you, just your post and so many like them.

    This is Cots Yankee contracts. This page shows the Yankees about $16 mil under the cap. Others say around $19 due to the possible difference in arbitration cases not yet heard.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...XPAvRQ/pubhtml

    So, if the Yankees sign Darvish for $20 to $25 mil AAV, they will be $1 mil to $9 mil over the cap. Any of Gardner, Hicks, Betances, Warren, Robertson, etc etc etc etc could be moved to get them back under the cap depending on what that number is. Yes, Ellsbury also. Contrary to what you said, Ellsbury is very easy to move, if you pay enough of his paycheck.

    OF and bullpen are the areas they have a surplus of players anyhow. They NEED to move any outfielder anyhow.

    So I don't understand why these types of posts keep popping up. It's like people don't even bother to read the thousand of other posts that say the same exact thing of what I just posted.
    These posts keep coming up because it's not just about signing Darvish. Getting those additional $4M is not hard to do. But most realize that they would not totally use up all the cap space before the season starts. It leaves them no room to eat any salary for mid-season upgrade. Some of us also doubt that they're committed to start two rookies at the infield, especially the third base.

    Unless you think that Ellsbury is a decent starter, trading Hicks means that Gardner needs to move to CF and creates another hole at DH. Trading Gardner also has the same effect. It's unlikely that Cashman will trade one of them.

    So it comes down to bullpen. It definitely is a strength but lots of people don't think Cashman would give away.

  14. #64
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    Re: MLB free agency: Yankees targeting Yu Darvish

    Quote Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
    These posts keep coming up because it's not just about signing Darvish. Getting those additional $4M is not hard to do. But most realize that they would not totally use up all the cap space before the season starts. It leaves them no room to eat any salary for mid-season upgrade. Some of us also doubt that they're committed to start two rookies at the infield, especially the third base.

    Unless you think that Ellsbury is a decent starter, trading Hicks means that Gardner needs to move to CF and create another hole at DH. Trading Gardner also has the same effect. It's unlikely that Cashman will trade one of them.

    So it comes down to bullpen. It definitely is a strength but lots of people don't think Cashman would give away.
    That's another thing. Why in the heck would you include Castro (added no value to trade) just to bring someone just like him in Harrison back. Or move Headley? Makes no sense. Or any other 3B making $8 to $10 mil per year. Now if you can pounce on a Machado or someone like for cheap, you do it.

    But yes, the Yankees should go with the kids at 2b and 3b, unless something falls in their laps. Torres is a top 3 prospect in all of baseball and Andujar is top 50. I'm OK, pushing their arrival back a few weeks for an extra year of control, but in my mind they are ready and are really going to push during ST. Bird and Judge were for the most part 2 rookies last year and it worked ok.

    Why would you not trade one of Gardner Hicks and Elsbury? They can't all play anyhow? yes you can rotate 4 outfielders with the DH, but I count 6. Gardner is league avg in LF other than his defense. You don't pay $13 mil just for defense. You can get the same offensive production out of Frazier.

    What is this hole at DH you speak of? Trade one of Hicks/Gardner, you still have 5 outfielders. Any of whom could DH, along with the C when he rests. Then you still have Tyler Austin or McKinnley who COULD DH. So you have 8 potential DH's.

    But back to the point, You said you didn't see it unless they UPLOAD (whatever that means) Ellsbury. There are dozens of ways they could go to improve this roster that doesn't include dumping Ellsbury.

    You jump on Darvish now is because the cost at the trade deadline could get VERY expensive. Are we forgetting how we got Torres, Frazier and many of the young arms in the first place?
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  15. #65
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    Re: MLB free agency: Yankees targeting Yu Darvish

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    For me it would take shedding two of those as to go into 2018 with no money for mid season trades is not a good idea. Adding another pitcher now is addressing a “need” we don’t have right now. Maybe June comes and we need an IF due to an unforeseen injury or elsewhere
    Acquiring aces is never a need. It is always a necessity.

    We have so many infielders in the system that are near ready its ridiculous.

    Torres, Wade, Andujar, Solak, Estrada, etc. All of whom are near top 10 Yankee prospects and who are on the verge of being ready.

    Or you could trade for someone making league minimum to fill a whole for a month or two in a minor transaction.

    Again, we have plenty of options to trade if we think we need to have some room at the deadline. Many are extra parts.

    Who's to say you don't trade one of the 6 starting pitchers if you need something at the deadline? I wouldn't unless a 7th starter forces his way in, but you could.

    Adding Darvish gives you another piece that you are now able to move, since he upgrades that spot and moves another piece down.
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  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by budstinks View Post
    That's another thing. Why in the heck would you include Castro (added no value to trade) just to bring someone just like him in Harrison back. Or move Headley? Makes no sense. Or any other 3B making $8 to $10 mil per year. Now if you can pounce on a Machado or someone like for cheap, you do it.

    But yes, the Yankees should go with the kids at 2b and 3b, unless something falls in their laps. Torres is a top 3 prospect in all of baseball and Andujar is top 50. I'm OK, pushing their arrival back a few weeks for an extra year of control, but in my mind they are ready and are really going to push during ST. Bird and Judge were for the most part 2 rookies last year and it worked ok.

    Why would you not trade one of Gardner Hicks and Elsbury? They can't all play anyhow? yes you can rotate 4 outfielders with the DH, but I count 6. Gardner is league avg in LF other than his defense. You don't pay $13 mil just for defense. You can get the same offensive production out of Frazier.

    What is this hole at DH you speak of? Trade one of Hicks/Gardner, you still have 5 outfielders. Any of whom could DH, along with the C when he rests. Then you still have Tyler Austin or McKinnley who COULD DH. So you have 8 potential DH's.

    But back to the point, You said you didn't see it unless they UPLOAD (whatever that means) Ellsbury. There are dozens of ways they could go to improve this roster that doesn't include dumping Ellsbury.

    You jump on Darvish now is because the cost at the trade deadline could get VERY expensive. Are we forgetting how we got Torres, Frazier and many of the young arms in the first place?
    I don't see it not because it's impossible for the Yankees to sign Darvish without dumping Ellsbury. It's because I don't think the Yankees would use other options in order to sign him based on what Cashman previously did. He loves bullpen strength. He loves Hicks. And Gardner is the clubhouse leader who Cashman would not just give him away in order to clear cap space. All reports also said that they would like to keep few millions for mid-season upgrade. When all things combined, I don't think they would sign Darvish unless they free up some money by dumping Ellsbury.

    For record I would love to see the Yankees getting Darvish.

  17. #67
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    Re: MLB free agency: Yankees targeting Yu Darvish

    Quote Originally Posted by budstinks View Post
    Acquiring aces is never a need. It is always a necessity.

    We have so many infielders in the system that are near ready its ridiculous.

    Torres, Wade, Andujar, Solak, Estrada, etc. All of whom are near top 10 Yankee prospects and who are on the verge of being ready.

    Or you could trade for someone making league minimum to fill a whole for a month or two in a minor transaction.

    Again, we have plenty of options to trade if we think we need to have some room at the deadline. Many are extra parts.

    Who's to say you don't trade one of the 6 starting pitchers if you need something at the deadline? I wouldn't unless a 7th starter forces his way in, but you could.

    Adding Darvish gives you another piece that you are now able to move, since he upgrades that spot and moves another piece down.
    If there was a bonafode ace available I would agree. I donít view Darvish who has been declining or Cole as aces.
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  18. #68

    Re: MLB free agency: Yankees targeting Yu Darvish

    This is the best time to unload Ellsbury finally.

    I see him traded to the SF Giants by Opening Day. Yanks should save about 10M a year depending on who else they give up/take back in the deal.

  19. #69
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    Re: MLB free agency: Yankees targeting Yu Darvish

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    If there was a bonafode ace available I would agree. I don’t view Darvish who has been declining or Cole as aces.
    This is a fair argument. Although, he was hurt and still rebounded pretty good. Prior to the injury he was top 5, now he is just top dozen or so.

    But Darvish is by most/many counts the #1 FA available and based on trade rumors the best of all starting pitchers available. Greinke is probably ranked higher, but his cost is absurd and is even older.

    Obviously, if Kershaw, Scherzer, Kluber and/or Sale came available you jump. But everyone else is just everyone else. Even Madbam/Starusburg have warts. But would rank higher.

    Only Severino would rank ahead of Darvish on my Yankee list, and he has had two polar opposite years. So he is a bigger question mark than anyone on the Yankees staff until we get more of a sample size. Darvish would rank top 12 to 15 on my list of MLB starters. So a borderline ace depending on performance year to year.

    He would definitely upgrade the SP for the postseason. This team, like the dynasty Yankees, probably needs to be built for the postseason, not the regular season.

    Postseason is all about pitching, aces and dominant bullpen arms.
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  20. #70

    Re: MLB free agency: Yankees targeting Yu Darvish

    I would pass. He will get lit up at Home and away at East Division stadiums. He's another Pineda with great K games then cannot last 5 innings.

  21. #71
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    Re: MLB free agency: Yankees targeting Yu Darvish

    Quote Originally Posted by nyyankees72 View Post
    I would pass. He will get lit up at Home and away at East Division stadiums. He's another Pineda with great K games then cannot last 5 innings.
    Agreed. Way too shaky for me amd not an ace though asking ace money
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  22. #72

    Re: MLB free agency: Yankees targeting Yu Darvish

    Quote Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
    These posts keep coming up because it's not just about signing Darvish. Getting those additional $4M is not hard to do. But most realize that they would not totally use up all the cap space before the season starts. It leaves them no room to eat any salary for mid-season upgrade. Some of us also doubt that they're committed to start two rookies at the infield, especially the third base.

    Unless you think that Ellsbury is a decent starter, trading Hicks means that Gardner needs to move to CF and creates another hole at DH. Trading Gardner also has the same effect. It's unlikely that Cashman will trade one of them.

    So it comes down to bullpen. It definitely is a strength but lots of people don't think Cashman would give away.
    Trading Hicks is not happening and should not be happening. He is not going to be making enough to have a freeing impact on the salary cap, and he is clearly their best defensive OFer. He is still only 28 and he could be very good this year, certainly better than the aging
    Gardner who has an AAV of 13 million. Gardner is just not necessary, with the athletic Stanton totally capable of playing LF until Frazier is ready. Dump Gardner's 13 million AAV and you can sign a free agent and keep Frazier in reserve. Ellsbury is still a good defensive OFer and an average hitter. He is terribly over paid, but dumping him for nothing is not going to be as helpful as getting rid of Gardner's unnecessary AAV. This seems obvious to me.

  23. #73

    Re: MLB free agency: Yankees targeting Yu Darvish

    Quote Originally Posted by yank4life2005 View Post
    This is the best time to unload Ellsbury finally.

    I see him traded to the SF Giants by Opening Day. Yanks should save about 10M a year depending on who else they give up/take back in the deal.

    I'd prefer the other poster's idea of uploading him. Preferably back to the Red Sox. Just upload him and his entire salary to their system and forget about it.

  24. #74

    Re: MLB free agency: Yankees targeting Yu Darvish

    Quote Originally Posted by rajah View Post
    Trading Hicks is not happening and should not be happening. He is not going to be making enough to have a freeing impact on the salary cap, and he is clearly their best defensive OFer. He is still only 28 and he could be very good this year, certainly better than the aging
    Gardner who has an AAV of 13 million. Gardner is just not necessary, with the athletic Stanton totally capable of playing LF until Frazier is ready. Dump Gardner's 13 million AAV and you can sign a free agent and keep Frazier in reserve. Ellsbury is still a good defensive OFer and an average hitter. He is terribly over paid, but dumping him for nothing is not going to be as helpful as getting rid of Gardner's unnecessary AAV. This seems obvious to me.
    I wouldn't underestimate Gardy's effect at the top of the lineup and, of course, his leadership. He brings some intangibles to the table that might be missed. That said, I do agree that Hicks is a keeper and Ellsbury's contract makes moving him a real puzzle so Gardner is the obvious choice of the tree. The game's not played on paper though.
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  25. #75

    Re: MLB free agency: Yankees targeting Yu Darvish

    Quote Originally Posted by nyyankees72 View Post
    I would pass. He will get lit up at Home and away at East Division stadiums. He's another Pineda with great K games then cannot last 5 innings.
    He's got great career numbers vs us, Toronto and Tampa....terrible vs Boston and passable vs Baltimore.
    And he has gone 6 innings per since his injury. Which is standard.

    The only similarity he has to Pineda is that he is right handed.

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