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  1. #1401
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    Re: The Hunt for Gerrit Cole

    Based on everything I've read, I don't believe PIT was demanding more from the Yankees. I think Cashman was very resolute with what he was offering...and I love that aspect of this whole transaction, even though it means the Astros likely improved at an eminently doable price.

    I think the odds of the package PIT got from HOU having a higher career WAR than what the Yankees were offering (even though we don't know the details) are better than even. It's just more spread out and with a lesser ceiling.
    Jaret Wright's 2005 Cy Young Season: 20-3, 3.04 ERA

  2. #1402
    Life is good
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    Re: The Hunt for Gerrit Cole

    Quote Originally Posted by smckdwn989 View Post
    The Pirates tried to hold us up, Cashman held firm and didn't give in. Would I have liked Cole? Sure, but I wasn't liking the fact that we would have to pay through the nose when compared to what Houston. Frazier or Adams is better than any player the Pirates got, building a package around one of them would have been more than fair. Pirates got greedy, so the Yankees can hold onto their chips for future deals.
    I don’t think the issue is that we said no, I just don’t understand the lack of any concern that our biggest roadblock to the World Series is where he ended up. Unless the thought is he isn’t good.
    you are your own happiness

  3. #1403
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    Re: The Hunt for Gerrit Cole

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    I don’t think the issue is that we said no, I just don’t understand the lack of any concern that our biggest roadblock to the World Series is where he ended up. Unless the thought is he isn’t good.
    He's got the potential to be very good, but really hasn't been that guy in the past couple of years. Whether that's luck, focus, or actual physical ability is unknown at this point, and he could morph into a dominator again under the HOU analytical department. But that's not close to a given right now, especially with his move to the AL.

    More importantly, there will absolutely be pitchers available for trade who are better and more reliable than Cole was at the time they hit the market. Cashman has now not only publicly set the mark on what he's willing to pay, but also indirectly helped set some of the overall trade market on starting pitchers by holding the line. He's also not dipped into the vault, either.

    I mean in the end it comes down to whether or not you think they should have added much to a piece like Frazier just to win the bidding. I'm glad they didn't, even though it means HOU got what looks like a very reasonable deal.
    Jaret Wright's 2005 Cy Young Season: 20-3, 3.04 ERA

  4. #1404
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    Re: The Hunt for Gerrit Cole

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeePride1967 View Post
    I don’t think the issue is that we said no, I just don’t understand the lack of any concern that our biggest roadblock to the World Series is where he ended up. Unless the thought is he isn’t good.
    Seems like Houston got a very good deal as the Pirates ended up taking quantity over quality. Is it great that he went to a team that could be standing in our way? of course not, but I'm not going to let that ruin this season.

    We've got a chance to be a very good team and while there are pieces we should and I hope we add, either now or midseason, things are looking up if you think back to this time last year.

  5. #1405
    Life is good
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    Re: The Hunt for Gerrit Cole

    Quote Originally Posted by JeterForPresident View Post
    Seems like Houston got a very good deal as the Pirates ended up taking quantity over quality. Is it great that he went to a team that could be standing in our way? of course not, but I'm not going to let that ruin this season.

    We've got a chance to be a very good team and while there are pieces we should and I hope we add, either now or midseason, things are looking up if you think back to this time last year.
    I agree with this, just mentioning I find it a bit odd that it didn’t raise any concern. I always enjoy the season, including the late 80’s and early 90’s but after this year hoping we make it further this year.
    you are your own happiness

  6. #1406

    Re: The Hunt for Gerrit Cole

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    If a package for Cole started with Frazier & Adams & ended with 2 "throw-ins", the Pirates would have probably took it, from what I've read.

    So the question is: Was it a mistake not to include both Frazier & Adams?

    IMO both are expendable for a cost-controlled young SP that would have probably been penciled in for 175 IP, assuming good health. Cole would have slotted in nicely in the #4 spot behind Severino Tanaka & Gray, without much pressure. The roster would have probably opened up a little bit, too.

    Spilt milk, I guess. I just think they need another proven starter with a pretty good ceiling.
    If that is in fact the case, I believe it was a BIG mistake. Cole has CY young stuff and could have been rejuvenated coming here and working with Rothschild.

  7. #1407
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    Re: The Hunt for Gerrit Cole

    Quote Originally Posted by WWJD View Post
    If that is in fact the case, I believe it was a BIG mistake. Cole has CY young stuff and could have been rejuvenated coming here and working with Rothschild.
    Personally, I would have given up Frazier and Adams for Cole (I'm not that high on Adams and Frazier is blocked) but it's worth noting that Cole had a pretty damn good pitching coach in Pittsburgh. If the issue was mechanical (and not physical as I tend to believe), Searage likely would have corrected it.
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  8. #1408

    Re: The Hunt for Gerrit Cole

    Quote Originally Posted by sjb23 View Post
    If a package for Cole started with Frazier & Adams & ended with 2 "throw-ins", the Pirates would have probably took it, from what I've read.

    So the question is: Was it a mistake not to include both Frazier & Adams?

    IMO both are expendable for a cost-controlled young SP that would have probably been penciled in for 175 IP, assuming good health. Cole would have slotted in nicely in the #4 spot behind Severino Tanaka & Gray, without much pressure. The roster would have probably opened up a little bit, too.

    Spilt milk, I guess. I just think they need another proven starter with a pretty good ceiling.
    Yankees are going for a Worlds Series this year, and hopefully each year for the next decade. There will be tons of pressure.
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  9. #1409
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    Re: The Hunt for Gerrit Cole

    Cotdam, this system is LOADED. Kiley McDaniel has Andujar's individual prospect value as roughly the same as the entire package PIT took for Cole:

    https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/how-...value-players/

    I would assume Torres, Tucker, and Whitley weren’t even on the table to be discussed, and I wouldn’t take Frazier alone over this package (it sounds like the Pirates agreed), while I think Andujar alone is worth about the same as this package (but it sounds like he wasn’t on the table, either).
    Jaret Wright's 2005 Cy Young Season: 20-3, 3.04 ERA

  10. #1410

    Re: The Hunt for Gerrit Cole

    Quote Originally Posted by Snatch Catch View Post
    No, he's saying what he means. Here's a clearer translation:

    "There's a lot of incorrect information out there about who we were asking for and who we were stuck on. The actual discussions involving Gerrit were a lot different than what was reported - players named in the media as being on the table from other teams were actually untouchable."
    You're doing God's work here. Thanks.

  11. #1411

    Re: The Hunt for Gerrit Cole

    The Astros ended the Yankees’ season by knocking them off in Game 7 of the ALCS and on Wednesday, Houston owner Jim Crane clearly relished landing Gerrit Cole despite the Yankees’ interest in the right-hander.

    “Any time we can beat the Yankees, that’s good,’’ Crane said after a press conference to introduce Cole at Minute Maid Park.
    https://nypost.com/2018/01/17/astros...r-gerrit-cole/

  12. #1412

    Re: The Hunt for Gerrit Cole

    Quote Originally Posted by Snatch Catch View Post
    No, he's saying what he means. Here's a clearer translation:

    "There's a lot of incorrect information out there about who we were asking for and who we were stuck on. The actual discussions involving Gerrit were a lot different than what was reported - players named in the media as being on the table from other teams were actually untouchable."
    Quote Originally Posted by Melancynic View Post
    Exactly.


    And, I rest my case.

    He actually wasn't saying that but I don't blame you for thinking so.

    That Snatch needs to translate it into English for posters shows how bananas his quotes are.
    I just re-read the quotes and you're both right.

    I thought it said "there's a lot of nonfiction out there" ... I missed the "not" before "out there." It's like the way we sometimes don't notice misspelled words because we are subconsciously auto-correcting them.
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  13. #1413
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    Re: The Hunt for Gerrit Cole

    https://nypost.com/2018/01/17/astros...r-gerrit-cole/

    Glad he's happy, let's beat him on the field
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  14. #1414
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    Re: The Hunt for Gerrit Cole

    Quote Originally Posted by WWJD View Post
    If that is in fact the case, I believe it was a BIG mistake. Cole has CY young stuff and could have been rejuvenated coming here and working with Rothschild.
    This argument about Cole baffles me. Cole HAD CY stuff in one season - in the remainder of those seasons are, IMO, unimpressive. His ERA+ for the other four seasons is somewhere around 105, which is meh.

    As for the belief that LR can fix him, Searage couldn't and look what he has done with other pitchers that Rothschild also schooled.

    Cash made the right decision here.
    Forgive me for taking the Contrarian view

  15. #1415

    Re: The Hunt for Gerrit Cole

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    someone needs to stand up for pirates baseball people, so it'll be me. i think moran will be a viable starting 3B, musgrove will surprise folks & crick/feliz have great arms. as for bucs' lack of spending over the years, well, that's another story ...

    The Pittsburgh Pirates were hit hard in some places and especially at home (“black weekend,” one Pittsburgh person called it, between the trades of Andrew McCutchen and Gerrit Cole and the Steelers’ upset loss at home to the likes of Jacksonville) for the deal with the Astros that netted them Joe Musgrove, Colin Moran, Michael Feliz and Jason Martin.

    Some thought that package was light, while others figured they should have taken a Yankees package centered around top outfield prospect Cint Frazier. But this quartet, at least to my way of thinking, likely beats Frazier plus two unnamed, lesser prospects.

    This is an opinion that was met with a lot of derision on Twitter, but Frazier dropped a notch in the eyes of some last year. Yes, he is talented and has very good pop, but he posted a low on-base-percentage after his call-up. He also has a rep of needing to mature, which is why Indians people weren’t broken up over trading him (Justus Sheffield was the one who hurt).

    The Yankees, meanwhile, wouldn’t add Estevan Florial, Miguel Andujar or Sheffield to the package, as Jerry Crasnick of ESPN reported. Sources say Andujar was one that really piqued the Pirates’ interest.

    Meanwhile, Musgrove is a solid starter, Moran took a big step forward last year (he had been the key piece in a Zach Britton trade before the Orioles canceled the deal) and Feliz has a big arm. Martin profiles as an extra outfielder. The most interesting thing about him might actually be that he and Cole went to the same high school – Orange Lutheran in Orange County, Calif.
    https://www.fanragsports.com/heyman-...irates-trades/

  16. #1416
    Released Outright teknetic's Avatar
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    Re: The Hunt for Gerrit Cole

    Frazier + Andujar and then settling on no top-100 prospect. Eat balls, Pirates.

  17. #1417
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    Re: The Hunt for Gerrit Cole

    Sometimes you just have to walk away from the table. It’s like because everyone knows the Yankees system is stacked, and have a formidable MLB team already, that they should overpay for what they want.

  18. #1418
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeantownYankee View Post
    https://nypost.com/2018/01/17/astros...r-gerrit-cole/

    Glad he's happy, let's beat him on the field
    Exactly. Come to Yankee Stadium and start the launch-a-ball game.

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