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  1. #1776

    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jace View Post
    I think people are generally overreacting here in terms of his future, but that was maybe the worst AB I've ever seen considering the situation. It was like he woke up from a nap in the middle of a REM cycle and maybe had also forgotten that breaking pitches exist.

    I know he swings through breaking pitches all the time, but with a little situational awareness, all he would have had to do was stand there and wait for a favorable count/walk. Maybe know what your own reputation is and try using that in an important moment.
    Just thinking it over today... in this series I swear Stanton literally struck out EVERY at-bat in a big spot. I mean he couldn't even chop a grounder? A lazy fly? He gotta strike out EVERY time when there are men on? How does our highest paid hitter, batting in the middle of the lineup, summon up ZERO RBIs in a 4 game playoff series? Sorry to rant, but just thinking about it 24 hrs later makes me want to throw things.

  2. #1777
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    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by primetime714 View Post
    An interesting idea for next year (that Boone won't consider), maybe we should bat Stanton in the leadoff spot. His numbers with runners on base and in scoring position are dramatically worse than with the bases empty. While he was atrocious in those situations in NY (81wRC+ with runners in scoring position), its also a career trend (158wRC+ bases empty, 124 with men on, 121 with men in scoring position).

    I know Hicks and Judge are better OBP guys, but they're also better at hitting with runners on. This might be a good way to relieve pressure and use him in the best way possible. Plus he wouldn't be the first slugger or top-tier talent to take on the leadoff spot.

    As bad as he looked at times the guy is still one of our best offensive players. And let's be real we're not trading him. If you think Jeter had no leverage, Cash would be in a worse position if he tried to go that route as Stanton would maybe give him LAD only and the Dodgers would want money back. And for the same reason Boone won't be fired after his first season, Cash won't admit error with Stanton either.

    Also he needs to be back in the OF (LF) next year. DH occasionally, but unless Frazier demands everyday playing action than Stanton should be in LF.
    I really dig this idea. If he still feels more pressure being on the leadoff spot then he better start getting used to it, and he will.

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    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84 View Post
    Just wait until they sign Corbin based on his career year. All the makings of a horrendous deal.
    On this, we are in full agreement.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  4. #1779
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    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
    I could understand unloading Stanton for Machado, although I think the Yankees could afford both.

    I don't understand unloading Stanton for Harper. He would cost significantly more than Stanton (in luxury tax perspective) and he is a lot more inconsistent and more injury-prone than Stanton.

    Harper this season WAR is 1.4.
    He would absolutely get killed by the same Yankees fans who want to dump Stanton after his first season.
    Simply not true in regards to inconsistency and durability. Even when Harper isn't hitting, he still gets on base. Despite an uncharacteristic .249 AVG, he still generated 130 walks, resulting in a fantastic .393 OBP, which is exactly what this team needs. We certainly could have used some of that patience during Stanton's AB in the 9th inning of game 4 vs. Boston....

    Add the fact that he's a LH power hitter tailor-made for YSIII, and he's a far better fit for this team than Stanton.

    As far as his WAR goes, it's a direct result of a sub-par defensive performance which was so far off of his career norms, that it validates the whispers that he was struggling through an undisclosed injury during the first half of the season. His UZR/150 was a statistical aberration compared to other years, and he's only 25, so it's not due to a permanent decline of his physical abilities.

    The other thing to take into consideration is the DH role, which is what Stanton was primarily this year. You use Harper as the DH on occasion if need be to help keep him fresh.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  5. #1780
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post
    Simply not true in regards to inconsistency and durability. Even when Harper isn't hitting, he still gets on base. Despite an uncharacteristic .249 AVG, he still generated 130 walks, resulting in a fantastic .393 OBP, which is exactly what this team needs. We certainly could have used some of that patience during Stanton's AB in the 9th inning of game 4 vs. Boston....

    Add the fact that he's a LH power hitter tailor-made for YSIII, and he's a far better fit for this team than Stanton.

    As far as his WAR goes, it's a direct result of a sub-par defensive performance which was so far off of his career norms, that it validates the whispers that he was struggling through an undisclosed injury during the first half of the season. His UZR/150 was a statistical aberration compared to other years, and he's only 25, so it's not due to a permanent decline of his physical abilities.

    The other thing to take into consideration is the DH role, which is what Stanton was primarily this year. You use Harper as the DH on occasion if need be to help keep him fresh.
    OPS+
    2012: 118
    2013: 133
    2014: 111
    2015: 198
    2016: 114
    2017: 156
    2018: 133

    WAR
    2012: 5.2
    2013: 3.7
    2014: 1.1
    2015: 10.0
    2016: 1.5
    2017: 4.7
    2018: 1.3

    His potential is huge but his inconsistency and injury history are too hard for me to ignore. I don't know how many more undisclosed injuries he had to explain all those down years. Even if he would not physically decline at his age, it's still a big red flag for me to invest $300m to someone who currently has shown little to prove that he could stay healthy.

  6. #1781
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    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    To clarify, I do think that Harper would be a better fit if the Yankees have no plan playing him at LF.

    His body breaking down risk is a lot higher than Stanton even though he has age advantage. So if they need to find a new LF, Stanton would be a better hit.
    Last edited by kan_t; 10-11-18 at 12:44 PM.

  7. #1782
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    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vanderlay View Post
    Not buying the New York angle at all. Hs is a great athlete with atrocious hitting mechanics. The name of the city is irrelevant.
    Okay, well this actually was something Mark Teixeira said, I would like to think he knows a little something about the adjustment it takes to play in NY.

  8. #1783
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    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    My 2 cents. I don't want to take on another massive contract. Forget Harper. We need to work with Stanton over the Winter. I was disappointed with everything all season and was not surprised with the playoffs with better pitching. Unfortunately, Art may be right on this. (1) Start with his swing and his inability to put the bat on the ball. I think it's like a hack and not a swing (looks out of balance). We all read how JD did this about having the bat in the zone. Have him go to those guys that worked with JD. He has to improve here and get his K% below 30% to be a clean up batter. (2) Get a new manager that has regular rest days like Joe G. I honestly believe having him go out there 158 games didn't help him but got him in a worst position. You could see it on this face. (3) He is NOT a 4th OF but a DH. I hated him in RF when Judge got hurt so I definitely don't want him in LF. He makes JD look good out there. Have him try backing up 1B like we did with Arod (he couldn't be worst). (4) forget the weight room about building up strength and work on bat speed - he already has power we need improvement in his reaction time. (5) Get his Mom to sit in the box for his game.

    No more BS about getting better (OK Stanton - what are you going to do?) or about potential - FO or Stanton should get a trainer for him over the Winter.

    In the beginning I thought Judge - Stanton in 3 - 4 (Babe - Lou) spots would be devastating and still feel we can do this. Keeping him in clean up was a mistake. I don't know this but I don't feel he got any help from Marcus or Boone this year.

  9. #1784
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    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by primetime714 View Post
    An interesting idea for next year (that Boone won't consider), maybe we should bat Stanton in the leadoff spot. His numbers with runners on base and in scoring position are dramatically worse than with the bases empty. While he was atrocious in those situations in NY (81wRC+ with runners in scoring position), its also a career trend (158wRC+ bases empty, 124 with men on, 121 with men in scoring position).

    I know Hicks and Judge are better OBP guys, but they're also better at hitting with runners on. This might be a good way to relieve pressure and use him in the best way possible. Plus he wouldn't be the first slugger or top-tier talent to take on the leadoff spot.

    As bad as he looked at times the guy is still one of our best offensive players. And let's be real we're not trading him. If you think Jeter had no leverage, Cash would be in a worse position if he tried to go that route as Stanton would maybe give him LAD only and the Dodgers would want money back. And for the same reason Boone won't be fired after his first season, Cash won't admit error with Stanton either.

    Also he needs to be back in the OF (LF) next year. DH occasionally, but unless Frazier demands everyday playing action than Stanton should be in LF.
    I'm for anything that gets him out of the 3 or 4 hole. He is a rally killer. If it were up to me, I would bat him no higher than 7th but Boone will never do that. Batting him leadoff might be more palatable to all involved. FWIW I agree with you that he's not tradeable either. No one wants that contract.
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  10. #1785

    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMuntz View Post
    I'm for anything that gets him out of the 3 or 4 hole. He is a rally killer. If it were up to me, I would bat him no higher than 7th but Boone will never do that. Batting him leadoff might be more palatable to all involved. FWIW I agree with you that he's not tradeable either. No one wants that contract.
    Heís better in the 3 or 4 hole than hicks thatís for damn sure
    Baseball games are not won with a formula. If you can hit, they will find a place for you

  11. #1786
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    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fightingirish595 View Post
    Heís better in the 3 or 4 hole than hicks thatís for damn sure
    Why? They had the same wRC+ but Hicks K'd at a significantly lower rate while Stanton had a higher GB% which makes him more prone to hitting into DPs.
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  12. #1787

    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimmer's Helmet View Post
    Simply not true in regards to inconsistency and durability. Even when Harper isn't hitting, he still gets on base. Despite an uncharacteristic .249 AVG, he still generated 130 walks, resulting in a fantastic .393 OBP, which is exactly what this team needs. We certainly could have used some of that patience during Stanton's AB in the 9th inning of game 4 vs. Boston....

    Add the fact that he's a LH power hitter tailor-made for YSIII, and he's a far better fit for this team than Stanton.

    As far as his WAR goes, it's a direct result of a sub-par defensive performance which was so far off of his career norms, that it validates the whispers that he was struggling through an undisclosed injury during the first half of the season. His UZR/150 was a statistical aberration compared to other years, and he's only 25, so it's not due to a permanent decline of his physical abilities.

    The other thing to take into consideration is the DH role, which is what Stanton was primarily this year. You use Harper as the DH on occasion if need be to help keep him fresh.
    If it were up to me, I'd try to ship off Stanton to his hometown Dodgers for Cody Bellinger, sign Manny Machado to play 3B, put Bellinger at 1B and Andujar in LF. The Yankees are clearly unhappy with Andujar's defense and they love Manny.

  13. #1788

    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMuntz View Post
    Why? They had the same wRC+ but Hicks K'd at a significantly lower rate while Stanton had a higher GB% which makes him more prone to hitting into DPs.
    Just look at RBIs. Hicks hits for lower average and less homeruns. Stantonís a better run producer.

    Hicks batted in prime RBI spots for a significant part of the year and knocked in a lot less runs than Stanton did.
    Baseball games are not won with a formula. If you can hit, they will find a place for you

  14. #1789

    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fightingirish595 View Post
    Just look at RBIs. Hicks hits for lower average and less homeruns. Stanton’s a better run producer.

    Hicks batted in prime RBI spots for a significant part of the year and knocked in a lot less runs than Stanton did.

    The leadoff spot should be occupied by a guy who gets on base. Hicks does that well. Stanton, Judge, and Sanchez had sub-par seasons. That's the only reason why Hicks was often used in a big RBI spot in the lineup. Stanton is a classic clean-up hitter. That ought to be his role.
    As I've posted elsewhere, I think the Yankees need a LH power bat. Trading Stanton to get one--if that's possible--would make sense. Guys like Judge and Stanton--maybe Sanchez, too--will tend to get eaten up by RHs with great sliders. It'd be nice to have another LH bat in the lineup to help mitigate that issue.
    Batting a guy like Stanton in the leadoff position makes no sense to me.

  15. #1790

    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by keo View Post
    The leadoff spot should be occupied by a guy who gets on base. Hicks does that well. Stanton, Judge, and Sanchez had sub-par seasons. That's the only reason why Hicks was often used in a big RBI spot in the lineup. Stanton is a classic clean-up hitter. That ought to be his role.
    Hicks in the leadoff spot is fine. FWIW Stanton hit well over 300 out of the cleanup spot this year. I forget the exact number
    Baseball games are not won with a formula. If you can hit, they will find a place for you

  16. #1791
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    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fightingirish595 View Post
    Just look at RBIs. Hicks hits for lower average and less homeruns. Stantonís a better run producer.

    Hicks batted in prime RBI spots for a significant part of the year and knocked in a lot less runs than Stanton did.
    They literally had the same wRC+ so I'm not sure how you can say Stanton was the better run producer. Stanton kills rallies with strikeouts and double plays. I dread the thought of seeing him the 4 hole for 8 more years.
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

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    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fightingirish595 View Post
    Hicks in the leadoff spot is fine. FWIW Stanton hit well over 300 out of the cleanup spot this year. I forget the exact number
    .321 avg
    .393 opb
    .606 slg
    1.000 ops

  18. #1793
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    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Stantonís not a slap hitter who has problems generating XBHs. Heís a guy with a lousy swing plane who struggles with pitch recognition.
    This is not America...No! https://youtu.be/neLXqbR_r0E

  19. #1794

    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ojo View Post
    Stantonís not a slap hitter who has problems generating XBHs. Heís a guy with a lousy swing plane who struggles with pitch recognition.
    Agree. Having watched him for the first time outside of highlights here and there it's actually a little amazing that he's gotten the results he has with that swing it really is one of the ugliest swings you'll see today. Stanton is a guy that as is just can't hit good pitching by that I mean pitchers with good K rates that rely on chases outside the zone. The plate discipline (especially so against RHP) just isn't quite there. On his best days he's a younger Nelson Cruz on his worst days he's like having an expensive version of Chris Carter. His splits vs LHP though are pretty amazing you usually don't see guys that have such an extensive track record for murdering LHP but he certainly does.

  20. #1795

    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by keo View Post
    If it were up to me, I'd try to ship off Stanton to his hometown Dodgers for Cody Bellinger, sign Manny Machado to play 3B, put Bellinger at 1B and Andujar in LF. The Yankees are clearly unhappy with Andujar's defense and they love Manny.
    Dodgers aren't giving up anything for Stanton. Yanks would have to eat some money annually and Dodgers would give the Yanks a couple 23 year olds in A ball.

  21. #1796

    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMuntz View Post
    They literally had the same wRC+ so I'm not sure how you can say Stanton was the better run producer. Stanton kills rallies with strikeouts and double plays. I dread the thought of seeing him the 4 hole for 8 more years.
    This was likely a career year for hicks. Hicks will never produce the way Stanton has. Down year for Stanton compared to what he’s done in the past
    Baseball games are not won with a formula. If you can hit, they will find a place for you

  22. #1797
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    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by smckdwn989 View Post
    Okay, well this actually was something Mark Teixeira said, I would like to think he knows a little something about the adjustment it takes to play in NY.
    Except Teixeira likes to talk out of his arse because his best season in NY was actually his first one.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  23. #1798
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    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by keo View Post
    If it were up to me, I'd try to ship off Stanton to his hometown Dodgers for Cody Bellinger, sign Manny Machado to play 3B, put Bellinger at 1B and Andujar in LF. The Yankees are clearly unhappy with Andujar's defense and they love Manny.
    And none of those moves help to address the need to improve overall team OBP.
    Harper does.

    Furthermore, you're not getting Bellinger for Stanton. What you can realistically expect to get is a couple of good prospects and salary relief that will allow you to sign Bryce Harper.
    "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)

  24. #1799
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    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    I am fine with Stanton. He came over this year from the NL, put up a 4.2 WAR, despite having a balky hamstring for most of the second half. He does not complain, and works on his craft.

    The postseason is littered with guys who have a rough postseason, especially when it consists of five games.

    Betts hit .188 in that series, a double and two singles. OBP of .316 - so would you not want him in pinstripes in CF next year?

    Stanton is not the problem.
    Goin for 2<strike>7</strike>8!

  25. #1800

    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by goin for 27 View Post
    I am fine with Stanton. He came over this year from the NL, put up a 4.2 WAR, despite having a balky hamstring for most of the second half. He does not complain, and works on his craft.

    The postseason is littered with guys who have a rough postseason, especially when it consists of five games.

    Betts hit .188 in that series, a double and two singles. OBP of .316 - so would you not want him in pinstripes in CF next year?

    Stanton is not the problem.
    Going forward his contract will very much be part of the problem.

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