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  1. #1826

    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ojo View Post
    I'm comparing him to elite hitters.
    Altuve: OPS+ 126; wRC+ 126
    Betts: OPS+ 134; wRC+ 135
    Stanton: OPS+ 143; wRC+ 142

    Trout: OPS+ 175; wRC+ 172

    Trout is on a level all by himself. You can't compare any active player to Trout--you have to jump eras.

  2. #1827
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    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by albo4lyfe View Post
    Altuve: OPS+ 126; wRC+ 126
    Betts: OPS+ 134; wRC+ 135
    Stanton: OPS+ 143; wRC+ 142

    Trout: OPS+ 175; wRC+ 172

    Trout is on a level all by himself. You can't compare any active player to Trout--you have to jump eras.
    Damn it you're using my own words against me.

    I'd deal the Yankee pinstripes to get Trout into a Yankee uniform.

    OK:

    Kris Bryant (ahead): .335/.557/.685
    Kris Bryant (behind): .225/.252/.389

    Paul Goldschmidt (ahead): .334/.561/.617
    Paul Goldschmidt (behind): .256/.262/.424
    "Be a voice, not an echo." - Albert Einstein

  3. #1828

    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Elite or not he doesn’t fit on this team. I could see 2 years ago they were going to be two right handed heavy and they did nothing to address that.

    It’s not that they aren’t too right handed heavy, it’s just nobody intimidated you from the left side

  4. #1829
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    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84 View Post
    ^ you’re comparing Stanton to 3 of the players with the best hit tool in the majors. Batting champions.
    True but I do think ojo is on to something with this ahead vs behind in the count theory with Stanton (although I’d like to see those stats for a few other hitters for more context). Once you get ahead of Stanton it seems way to easy to get him to chase a breaking ball off the plate. That’s the type of weakness that can be easily exploited in a short series.
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  5. #1830
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    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    I'd like to see some foul ball statistics, because I feel like Giancarlo showed little to no ability to foul off a pitcher's pitch behind in the count.

    He'll just never succeed the way he should with that stupid stance. You can't get around and pull the ball without cheating. His groundball tendencies were just awful. He needs to get back to putting the ball in the air, I don't know who told him to hit more line drives, but he needs to stop doing that.
    Calmer than you are

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  6. #1831

    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    With all coaches returning in 2019 including hitting coach Marcus Thames, expect Gian to continue to tune him out.

  7. #1832

    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fightingirish595 View Post
    Fortunately, I think this was him at his worst. I think he’ll improve. A lot of changes this year for him.
    Unfortunately for Yankees fans, this was not Stanton at his worst. See 2016 for supporting data. He hit under the Mendoza Line for most of the season and turned it on in the end, when it didn't matter, much like he did this season. I am a Marlins fan (please don't laugh) so I have been following Stanton since he trashed our organization on his way out the door....you know, the one which grossly over-paid him insane amounts of money to fatten his own stats. You guys are all aware of how he only hits when the pressure is off. I followed every box score this year. He will deliver only when it matters least. This is not a new thing for him because of playing in a big market, change of clubs, etc... This is the real deal "Mike" Stanton. I am so grateful to the wealthy Yankees organization for removing this albatross from South Florida. I can't say these things on my team's message boards because the kids on there are more interested in "popular players" and they trash anyone who speaks factually against them. They were in awe over his 59 home runs. I was disgusted because I knew it was phony. HE is phony. Thank you for allowing me to vent on your boards. It's pretty obvious reading the posts here that Yankees fans are very educated about the FACTS and not the HYPE. Stay tuned: if he continues his trend, he will start having fake injuries mid to late in the year when he is failing and tired of hearing about it from the media, fans, etc...

  8. #1833
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    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by CHRISTYTOD View Post
    Unfortunately for Yankees fans, this was not Stanton at his worst. See 2016 for supporting data. He hit under the Mendoza Line for most of the season and turned it on in the end, when it didn't matter, much like he did this season. I am a Marlins fan (please don't laugh) so I have been following Stanton since he trashed our organization on his way out the door....you know, the one which grossly over-paid him insane amounts of money to fatten his own stats. You guys are all aware of how he only hits when the pressure is off. I followed every box score this year. He will deliver only when it matters least. This is not a new thing for him because of playing in a big market, change of clubs, etc... This is the real deal "Mike" Stanton. I am so grateful to the wealthy Yankees organization for removing this albatross from South Florida. I can't say these things on my team's message boards because the kids on there are more interested in "popular players" and they trash anyone who speaks factually against them. They were in awe over his 59 home runs. I was disgusted because I knew it was phony. HE is phony. Thank you for allowing me to vent on your boards. It's pretty obvious reading the posts here that Yankees fans are very educated about the FACTS and not the HYPE. Stay tuned: if he continues his trend, he will start having fake injuries mid to late in the year when he is failing and tired of hearing about it from the media, fans, etc...
    Appreciate your perspective as a Marlins fan. I don't see Marlins games very much, so I've had little to no experience watching him play prior to this year. Although Stanton did have what some would consider a productive year, I often had the sense that he under performed given his gaudy reputation. My question is with respect to the bolded part of your post. Aside from his 59 HRs, how did he win the MVP last year? What did he do last year that we haven't seen here yet?
    Yankee fan living in Maine.

  9. #1834
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    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    I was critical this year because I had high expectations but there is no way he's an albatross. I posted earlier as to what he needs to work on the his swing/contact/ decrease K%/( days off too) this Winter. He has to do better if Boone is constantly playing him in clean up.

    Hope everyone is watching the BoSox - HOU games because they are great baseball games. Want to point out JD is the DH I think throughout the playoffs - he is not playing the field. No way do I want Stanton in LF replacing Gardy next year. Bennitendi (sp) won that game last night with that catch. There is NO WAY Stanton can make that catch. I did not like him in RF replacing Judge when he was hurt.

  10. #1835

    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bucky View Post
    I was critical this year because I had high expectations but there is no way he's an albatross. I posted earlier as to what he needs to work on the his swing/contact/ decrease K%/( days off too) this Winter. He has to do better if Boone is constantly playing him in clean up.

    Hope everyone is watching the BoSox - HOU games because they are great baseball games. Want to point out JD is the DH I think throughout the playoffs - he is not playing the field. No way do I want Stanton in LF replacing Gardy next year. Bennitendi (sp) won that game last night with that catch. There is NO WAY Stanton can make that catch. I did not like him in RF replacing Judge when he was hurt.
    The notion that Stanton is a bad OF is simply false. His 300+ innings in left on a rate basis were elite level defense by UZR/150. No one with that many innings at any position was better by that stat. And he's been an above average OF his entire career in RF which is typically a more demanding position than LF in just about any stadium that isn't Yankee Stadium. He DH'd last year mostly because the other corner OFs were better defensively, but not by that much. They actually probably should've rotated him in more earlier in the year, maybe Gardner wouldn't have been trash at the plate in the second half if he wasn't playing too much in the first half.

  11. #1836
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    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by primetime714 View Post
    The notion that Stanton is a bad OF is simply false. His 300+ innings in left on a rate basis were elite level defense by UZR/150. No one with that many innings at any position was better by that stat. And he's been an above average OF his entire career in RF which is typically a more demanding position than LF in just about any stadium that isn't Yankee Stadium. He DH'd last year mostly because the other corner OFs were better defensively, but not by that much. They actually probably should've rotated him in more earlier in the year, maybe Gardner wouldn't have been trash at the plate in the second half if he wasn't playing too much in the first half.
    Fine. Maybe not bad but he has a negative defensive WAR in both BBRef and Fangraphs. We can disagree with Bad vs Good, speed, athleticism, RF vs LF, what I saw when he replaced Judge in RF when he got hurt, etc and can agree with the last posts on rotation more. We both watched the BOS/HOU and see Bennendi - JBJ - Betts as a comps and JD Never play in OF so far. My point I don't want him replacing Gardy in LF next season.

    Look we have Stanton for a long time and I want him to excel next year. I feel his role is DH and emergency OFer for now.

  12. #1837

    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bucky View Post
    Fine. Maybe not bad but he has a negative defensive WAR in both BBRef and Fangraphs. We can disagree with Bad vs Good, speed, athleticism, RF vs LF, what I saw when he replaced Judge in RF when he got hurt, etc and can agree with the last posts on rotation more. We both watched the BOS/HOU and see Bennendi - JBJ - Betts as a comps and JD Never play in OF so far. My point I don't want him replacing Gardy in LF next season.

    Look we have Stanton for a long time and I want him to excel next year. I feel his role is DH and emergency OFer for now.
    We can all agree that Stanton is not an elite outfielder and although he blasted more HRs (38) and drove in more runs (100) than any other Yankee in 2018, Didi was the team MVP this past season mostly due to his much better defensive performance nothwithstanding his .268 BA, 27 HRs (2nd best) and 86 RBIs (2nd best).

  13. #1838

    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by YanksBeatBraves1996 View Post
    We can all agree that Stanton is not an elite outfielder and although he blasted more HRs (38) and drove in more runs (100) than any other Yankee in 2018, Didi was the team MVP this past season mostly due to his much better defensive performance nothwithstanding his .268 BA, 27 HRs (2nd best) and 86 RBIs (2nd best).
    Andujar had 92 RBIs so Didi was 3rd best.

  14. #1839
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    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Roundelk View Post
    Andujar had 92 RBIs so Didi was 3rd best.
    So the two guys that led the Yankees in RBI last season are the two guys that half the people on this site want to see traded away.

  15. #1840
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    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    I'm starting to put Stanton's performance this season into perspective. I believe he still has his best ahead of him. Lots of changes he had to adjust to this season. I'm guessing he'll have a better 2019. I'm a bit alarmed at the strikeouts. 211 Ks. Wow. If he had just 3/4 of those (50 more ABs with the ball put into play?), no telling what kind of affect he would have had on some games).

    Now I'll admit I have no idea how to be a successful hitter at any level, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express recently:

    I think he should try opening his stance a bit more, and instead of trying to cover the outside pitch, learn how to spit on it and instead look for a pitch middle-in. He just doesn't seem to recognize the spin on the pitches down and away, so there's lots of swings-and-misses, I would guess. I think his seemingly inability to hit a 95MPH+ fastball up and in has more to do with his stance than his bat speed.

    He should really make an effort to make more contact and cut down on the strikeouts.
    "Somebody once asked me if I ever went up to the plate trying to hit a home run. I said, 'Sure, every time.'" -- Mickey Mantle

  16. #1841

    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    If the Yankees sign Harper, they should bat Stanton 2nd and Judge 4th, with Bryce splitting them. Stanton should see better pitches to hit, because who's going to want to walk him with Harper up next?
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  17. #1842

    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by spanky185 View Post
    If the Yankees sign Harper, they should bat Stanton 2nd and Judge 4th, with Bryce splitting them. Stanton should see better pitches to hit, because who's going to want to walk him with Harper up next?
    Imagine the top 4 of this lineup being Hicks-Stanton-Harper-Judge. Good god

  18. #1843

    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by spanky185 View Post
    If the Yankees sign Harper, they should bat Stanton 2nd and Judge 4th, with Bryce splitting them. Stanton should see better pitches to hit, because who's going to want to walk him with Harper up next?
    Stanton saw plenty of good pitches because batters ahead of him were getting walked because they knew Stanton would bail them out with strikeout. I like the idea of Stanton moving up in the order mostly because it takes him out of more positions with runners in scoring position. I think Stanton showed that he's not a guy you want to rely on when all you really need is a good AB and to pass the baton. I do think batting him in one of the top two spots though does make a lot of sense. I'd make a case for leadoff, but I can't see Boone doing something so unconventional. Either way its clear that if his current performance continues we need to mitigate the risk and take him out of RBI situations. I think his career line with RISP though makes that case clear already.

  19. #1844

    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by primetime714 View Post
    Stanton saw plenty of good pitches because batters ahead of him were getting walked because they knew Stanton would bail them out with strikeout. I like the idea of Stanton moving up in the order mostly because it takes him out of more positions with runners in scoring position. I think Stanton showed that he's not a guy you want to rely on when all you really need is a good AB and to pass the baton. I do think batting him in one of the top two spots though does make a lot of sense. I'd make a case for leadoff, but I can't see Boone doing something so unconventional. Either way its clear that if his current performance continues we need to mitigate the risk and take him out of RBI situations. I think his career line with RISP though makes that case clear already.
    Regardless of where he bats he needs to lay off that breaking pitch and take some medicine BBs.
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  20. #1845
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    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by primetime714 View Post
    Stanton saw plenty of good pitches because batters ahead of him were getting walked because they knew Stanton would bail them out with strikeout. I like the idea of Stanton moving up in the order mostly because it takes him out of more positions with runners in scoring position. I think Stanton showed that he's not a guy you want to rely on when all you really need is a good AB and to pass the baton. I do think batting him in one of the top two spots though does make a lot of sense. I'd make a case for leadoff, but I can't see Boone doing something so unconventional. Either way its clear that if his current performance continues we need to mitigate the risk and take him out of RBI situations. I think his career line with RISP though makes that case clear already.
    Just the opposite. Why start the game with a SO? Until he can get his SO down, I wanted him batting 5-7 in the rotation. The top two spots are for OBP. Cutch was our best leadoff. and I loved Judge second.

    IF Stanton can correct that hack of a swing I do feel he can be a clean up hitter. This is why I wasn't happy with Marcus because he did not look good in the box.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/sortable.js...d=0&timeframe=

  21. #1846

    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bucky View Post
    Just the opposite. Why start the game with a SO? Until he can get his SO down, I wanted him batting 5-7 in the rotation. The top two spots are for OBP. Cutch was our best leadoff. and I loved Judge second.

    IF Stanton can correct that hack of a swing I do feel he can be a clean up hitter. This is why I wasn't happy with Marcus because he did not look good in the box.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/sortable.js...d=0&timeframe=
    He's never really going to cut down on SOs significantly and they're not going to hide him in the back of the lineup. His approach with runners in scoring position is terrible and its been a career long problem for him. Until he proves he can hit in those situations try to take him out of them. A SO to start the game is far less damaging than a strikeout with a runner on 2B and no one out.

    In 2018:
    Bases Empty: .289, .367, .573 (wRC+ 154), 29.9% SO
    Men in Scoring: .241, .322, .373 (wRC+ 81), 29.9% SO

    A .367 OBP with Bases Empty is actually tied for the team lead as Judge (.367) and Hicks (.346) are both better at getting on base with runners on whereas Stanton is worse.

    Setting a lineup for Stanton to be the hero and drive in runs with men on is setting yourself up for failure. In a key situation you want Judge, Andujar, Hicks, or Torres at the plate maybe Voit if he can carry any of it over or Sanchez if he returns to form. Stanton's talented enough to play a key role in our success, he just shouldn't be "the guy" we have other players mainly Judge better suited to handle the big spots.

    Also if we get a lefty role player that will hit 9th you may line up more situations for Stanton to face a lefty pitcher.

  22. #1847
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    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by primetime714 View Post
    He's never really going to cut down on SOs significantly and they're not going to hide him in the back of the lineup. His approach with runners in scoring position is terrible and its been a career long problem for him. Until he proves he can hit in those situations try to take him out of them. A SO to start the game is far less damaging than a strikeout with a runner on 2B and no one out.

    In 2018:
    Bases Empty: .289, .367, .573 (wRC+ 154), 29.9% SO
    Men in Scoring: .241, .322, .373 (wRC+ 81), 29.9% SO

    A .367 OBP with Bases Empty is actually tied for the team lead as Judge (.367) and Hicks (.346) are both better at getting on base with runners on whereas Stanton is worse.

    Setting a lineup for Stanton to be the hero and drive in runs with men on is setting yourself up for failure. In a key situation you want Judge, Andujar, Hicks, or Torres at the plate maybe Voit if he can carry any of it over or Sanchez if he returns to form. Stanton's talented enough to play a key role in our success, he just shouldn't be "the guy" we have other players mainly Judge better suited to handle the big spots.

    Also if we get a lefty role player that will hit 9th you may line up more situations for Stanton to face a lefty pitcher.
    Thanks. I actually think we agree more than disagree. We both don't like him in clean up with RISP. I did not know his OBP was so high with the bases empty but maybe it's worth a try. (tries too hard and gets frustrated?) But I do want speed and ability to steal second in my lead off. Another thing we are weak at (I am old school) is bunting. I watched Pete Rose bunt many times and he was the best. ME, I still want Judge - Stanton in 3 - 4 spot but the K% has to improve. I do feel he can cut down his K% (at 30%) significantly to 20% if he changes (Judge did it, updated). Most of us have talk about how he has weak areas and pitches I feel it's because how he hacks at the pitches.

    Lefty on the bottom would definitely help him in leadoff (Boone should have tried something IMO). I did liked Didi batting 9th. He did a great job there, lefty, definitely improve the bottom, and the opposing pitcher goes nuts having him 9th and then the top of the order. Just switch Torres and Didi, nice.

    We are not signing Cutch so I hope Clint can be that guy.

    I just checked: Judge K% is at 30% just like Stanton's. I didn't think both was so high. Judges K% did improve from around 40% but I feel 30% is still high. interesting maybe both need some protection that you referred to.
    Last edited by bucky; 10-20-18 at 04:35 PM. Reason: Judge

  23. #1848

    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bucky View Post
    Fine. Maybe not bad but he has a negative defensive WAR in both BBRef and Fangraphs. We can disagree with Bad vs Good, speed, athleticism, RF vs LF, what I saw when he replaced Judge in RF when he got hurt, etc and can agree with the last posts on rotation more. We both watched the BOS/HOU and see Bennendi - JBJ - Betts as a comps and JD Never play in OF so far. My point I don't want him replacing Gardy in LF next season.

    Look we have Stanton for a long time and I want him to excel next year. I feel his role is DH and emergency OFer for now.
    “Maybe not bad but . . .”

    What do you mean by “but . . .”? Using Stanton’s defensive value from WAR to measure how good a fielder he is, is an improper use of the stat. It’s a measure of value, not of fielding. It uses positional adjustment to arrive at defensive value. DH and LF have the two biggest negative positional adjustments, so of course his Def on WAR is going to be a negative number. But every measure of pure fielding rated him very high.

  24. #1849

    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bucky View Post
    Thanks. I actually think we agree more than disagree. We both don't like him in clean up with RISP. I did not know his OBP was so high with the bases empty but maybe it's worth a try. (tries too hard and gets frustrated?) But I do want speed and ability to steal second in my lead off. Another thing we are weak at (I am old school) is bunting. I watched Pete Rose bunt many times and he was the best. ME, I still want Judge - Stanton in 3 - 4 spot but the K% has to improve. I do feel he can cut down his K% (at 30%) significantly to 20% if he changes (Judge did it, updated). Most of us have talk about how he has weak areas and pitches I feel it's because how he hacks at the pitches.

    Lefty on the bottom would definitely help him in leadoff (Boone should have tried something IMO). I did liked Didi batting 9th. He did a great job there, lefty, definitely improve the bottom, and the opposing pitcher goes nuts having him 9th and then the top of the order. Just switch Torres and Didi, nice.

    We are not signing Cutch so I hope Clint can be that guy.

    I just checked: Judge K% is at 30% just like Stanton's. I didn't think both was so high. Judges K% did improve from around 40% but I feel 30% is still high. interesting maybe both need some protection that you referred to.
    Yea I hear you on the pesky leadoff guy that can hurt you many ways. I just don't think we have the personnel for it. Hicks is the closest thing we got, but he's a far cry from Mookie, but so is just about everyone not named Trout. And I don't expect to see the team do much with the running game because they're still built on the HR. I would like to see more situational play, but its easier said than done.

    End of the day Stanton is still one of the best hitters on the team. You'd love him to own a 3/4 spot in the lineup, but he doesn't seem up for it or his game is just not well suited for it. I'm curious to see how he'd do in the leadoff spot. I think it makes sense for the reasons I pointed out above. I doubt Boone is creative enough to go that route, but I'd applaud the effort.

  25. #1850

    Re: 2018 Giancarlo Stanton Performance Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    “Maybe not bad but . . .”

    What do you mean by “but . . .”? Using Stanton’s defensive value from WAR to measure how good a fielder he is, is an improper use of the stat. It’s a measure of value, not of fielding. It uses positional adjustment to arrive at defensive value. DH and LF have the two biggest negative positional adjustments, so of course his Def on WAR is going to be a negative number. But every measure of pure fielding rated him very high.
    Yea that was my point as well, when he played the OF Stanton was no worse than average by the eye test and the metrics say he was actually quite good especially playing LF.

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