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  1. #6026

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    I think Manfred is trying to get people to talk about the game and nothing more. I could be wrong, in which case he's a complete ass, but if I'm NOT wrong, it's actually pretty good marketing.
    /sarcasm
    KayNOTForPresident

  2. #6027

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    When did Chris Archer become Chris Sale?
    The the interdivisonal "I hate the Yankees" surcharge. Yankees should just buy the Rays and all 22 of their fans.
    The Continuance of Being Great, is Getting Number Twenty-Eight

  3. #6028
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    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by yank4life2005 View Post
    Cost for Archer is more like Frazier, Sheffield, Adams and Andujar.
    I would never ever make that trade....

    Reminds me of the Judge & Serverino for Price, would be a nightmare....
    In the Land of the Blind. The One Eyed Man is King......

  4. #6029

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    I don’t want Archer, but I said it last season and I’ll say it again.

    Cashman made a big mistake allowing the Red Sox to get Chris Sale. That is the kind of guy you dump your farm system for.

    I would have let the White Sox pick 3 of Torres, Andjuar, Florial, Frazier, and Sheffield.

  5. #6030

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TorreFan66 View Post
    I don’t want Archer, but I said it last season and I’ll say it again.

    Cashman made a big mistake allowing the Red Sox to get Chris Sale. That is the kind of guy you dump your farm system for.

    I would have let the White Sox pick 3 of Torres, Andjuar, Florial, Frazier, and Sheffield.
    So if NY had Sale, they probably win the division last year and then are eliminated by HOU one round earlier (who hammered Sale twice in the ALDS). Now they'd have just two years left of Sale, and would have lost 18 years combined of prime prospects (Torres, Sheffield and Florial or Andujar).

    Also Sale faltered down the stretch last year, a 4.09 ERA in August/September and a 8.38 ERA in two playoff starts.

    TL/DR: Thankfully Cashman didn't do this.

  6. #6031
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    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Judge would have almost certainly been a piece in that deal, too. Severino possible as well, and as the third/fourth piece, to make it even more horrifying.

  7. #6032

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jon abbey View Post
    So if NY had Sale, they probably win the division last year and then are eliminated by HOU one round earlier (who hammered Sale twice in the ALDS). Now they'd have just two years left of Sale, and would have lost 18 years combined of prime prospects (Torres, Sheffield and Florial or Andujar).

    Also Sale faltered down the stretch last year, a 4.09 ERA in August/September and a 8.38 ERA in two playoff starts.

    TL/DR: Thankfully Cashman didn't do this.
    I’m not getting into “what ifs” as far as what would have happened if the Yankees had Sale, but I will say Sale is a stud who would be a perfect fit at Yankee Stadium.

    Keep in mind if Cashman got Sale then he wouldn’t have made the Sonny Gray deal and Fowler, Kap, and Mateo would all still be in the system.

    As far as Sale’s second half last year I blame Farrell and the organization. They completely blew it with him in the first half allowing him to go for stupid strikeout records and what not. They won’t be that dumb this year.

  8. #6033

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Snatch Catch View Post
    Judge would have almost certainly been a piece in that deal, too. Severino possible as well, and as the third/fourth piece, to make it even more horrifying.
    And BOS would have a way better farm system, Kopech and Moncada and the others.

  9. #6034

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TorreFan66 View Post
    Keep in mind if Cashman got Sale then he wouldn’t have made the Sonny Gray deal and Fowler, Kap, and Mateo would all still be in the system.
    Those guys got moved because they didn't have much future in NY whereas the guys you're talking about do. Mateo has endless talent and a questionable work ethic, and Fowler and Kaprielian are huge question marks coming off devastating injuries, especially Kap who has barely pitched in years and will take multiple years to build to a normal SP workload. I don't even like Sonny Gray much, but I don't miss any of those guys and doubt I will in the future either.

  10. #6035

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Snatch Catch View Post
    Judge would have almost certainly been a piece in that deal, too. Severino possible as well, and as the third/fourth piece, to make it even more horrifying.
    I doubt it. Believe it or not Judge and Severino did not have as much value as Torres and Frazier last offseason.

    Hell..Had Cashman known what he had in Judge and Severino I firmly believe Sale would be a Yankee right now.

  11. #6036

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jon abbey View Post
    Those guys got moved because they didn't have much future in NY whereas the guys you're talking about do. Mateo has endless talent and a questionable work ethic, and Fowler and Kaprielian are huge question marks coming off devastating injuries, especially Kap who has barely pitched in years and will take multiple years to build to a normal SP workload. I don't even like Sonny Gray much, but I don't miss any of those guys and doubt I will in the future either.
    Umm.. Not sure about that

    I was always higher on Mateo than Torres. Even Cashman admitted once that Mateo more natural ability then anyone in the system;

    Wouldn’t call Fowler’s injury “devastating” He’s projected to start this year in Oakland

    Kaprelian is a ?, but again there is a lot to work with there.

    The good thing about having a deep farm system is that Torres, Frazier, and Sheffield are still here.

  12. #6037
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    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Sales arm is going to explode soon. He leads the league every year in pitcher abuse points. Something has got to give.
    Calmer than you are

    7/30/2017: The day the Minnesota Twins bought a prospect from the New York Yankees.

  13. #6038

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TorreFan66 View Post
    Umm.. Not sure about that

    I was always higher on Mateo than Torres. Even Cashman admitted once that Mateo more natural ability then anyone in the system;

    Wouldn’t call Fowler’s injury “devastating” He’s projected to start this year in Oakland

    Kaprelian is a ?, but again there is a lot to work with there.

    The good thing about having a deep farm system is that Torres, Frazier, and Sheffield are still here.
    Cashman STRONGLY implied thart the cost for Sale was Gary, Sev, ++.

    https://articles.nj.com/yankees/inde...brian_cash.amp

    Also, no offense, but you are way off in your assessment of how the Yankees do trades. Mateo is gone because he was less valued by the Yankees than Torres. Fowler, Rutherford and lesser guys like Ben Camel are gone because they were behind Frazier and Florial in the Yankees eyes. Kap? They liked him less than Sheffield, and a bunch of other guys. They've built a ton of quality depth and they're able to pick and choose who they move and when they move them.

  14. #6039
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    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TorreFan66 View Post
    I doubt it.
    You're wrong. My point was that Judge and Severino were likely to be in that deal as secondary/tertiary pieces BECAUSE the trade was done last offseason before they broke out. The Yankees had one prospect in the Moncada/Kopech tier, and that was Gleyber. They would have had to cobble the rest of the value together by either basing the trade around Sanchez OR backfilling with multiple "lesser" prospects to equal a second blue-chipper.

    • Torres/Judge/Severino
    • Sanchez/Severino/prospect
    • Torres/Frazier/Severino
    • Torres/Judge/Severino/4th prospect


    Those are the kind of hindsight nightmares pursuing Sale, when the Sox had Moncada and Kopech on the table, would have turned out to be.
    Jaret Wright's 2005 Cy Young Season: 20-3, 3.04 ERA

  15. #6040

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    we also weren't expected to be a playoff team to begin 2017. That's why it didn't make sense to get him in that offseason

  16. #6041

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nyy42 View Post
    we also weren't expected to be a playoff team to begin 2017. That's why it didn't make sense to get him in that offseason
    Even leaving that aside, that linked article makes it clear how much worse we'd be off now if we had done it. 6 years each of Sanchez and Severino for 3 years of Sale, plus still more on the Yankee side. Trading for Sale did not make sense at the time and a year later, makes way way way less sense. There is a way better argument to be made for having claimed Verlander off waivers last August, but no one did that and even Houston didn't pick up his whole deal in the end, so even that one is a stretch.

    I still think Sheffield is as likely to be the impact SP we are looking for as anyone, and with the rumors going around of Adams back to the bullpen, maybe he is higher in the pecking order already than we'd think. Maybe 8th behind the top 5/Cessa/German?

  17. #6042
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    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    If someone knows where to search on these boards, there were several posts that qouted sources that included what the Yankees would have to offerred. Almost all of the included Sanchez and Severino, plus others from the minors.

    To me, it was a no-go, from the start. If it would have been Frazier, Mateo, and lower level guys in teh system, then maybe something could be worked out. But otherwise, the cost is too much, even for Sale.

  18. #6043

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TorreFan66 View Post
    I’m not getting into “what ifs” as far as what would have happened if the Yankees had Sale, but I will say Sale is a stud who would be a perfect fit at Yankee Stadium.

    Keep in mind if Cashman got Sale then he wouldn’t have made the Sonny Gray deal and Fowler, Kap, and Mateo would all still be in the system.

    As far as Sale’s second half last year I blame Farrell and the organization. They completely blew it with him in the first half allowing him to go for stupid strikeout records and what not. They won’t be that dumb this year.
    Bingo. Sale does have a past of fading a bit but no doubt he was mismanaged last year
    Baseball games are not won with a formula. If you can hit, they will find a place for you

  19. #6044
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    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    What a great game today. I was in seventh heaven. I so much liked to see the up and coming farmhands play.
    My wife and I will be there March 22 to March 29th, That's the only time that fits our schedule. By that time all the regulars will play. I so much love the young guys to play.


    Andy
    Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.

  20. #6045

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Good deal, Andy! Enjoy!
    /sarcasm
    KayNOTForPresident

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