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  1. #1651

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Krall View Post
    Is it just me or was the legendary bat speed of Frasier kinda ho hum?
    I sentence you to watch this game-winning HR off one of the best closers in baseball ten times in a row, he made a 97 MPH fastball look like it was sitting on a tee:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpjU3_BPsIs

  2. #1652

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jon abbey View Post
    I sentence you to watch this game-winning HR off one of the best closers in baseball ten times in a row, he made a 97 MPH fastball look like it was sitting on a tee:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpjU3_BPsIs
    Yep, he's got that bat speed just to needs to harness some other skills at the plate.

  3. #1653
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    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Krall View Post
    Is it just me or was the legendary bat speed of Frasier kinda ho hum?
    Ho hum. You are correct in your assessment. His exit velocity figures were nothing special.

    https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/statc...abs=50#results

    On top of that he's atrocious defensively. They should look to move him while he still has his prospect allure around him for SP.

  4. #1654

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    Ho hum. You are correct in your assessment. His exit velocity figures were nothing special.

    https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/statc...abs=50#results

    On top of that he's atrocious defensively. They should look to move him while he still has his prospect allure around him for SP.
    Yeah, nothing special just slightly behind Mike Trout and is tied with Buster Posey and Nolan Arenado.

    As far his defense being atrocious, I wouldn't go that far.

  5. #1655
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    Wink Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    Yeah, nothing special just slightly behind Mike Trout and is tied with Buster Posey and Nolan Arenado.

    As far his defense being atrocious, I wouldn't go that far.
    There's nothing "legendary" about being ranked #102 in exit velocity. Trout and Arenado are much better players. Their xwOBA based on their batting profiles are much higher. The question posted was is Clint's bat speed legendary. Based on the numbers thus far, no it isn't. Baseball savant had a estimated bat speed category, I can't find it. Maybe has something to do with being on mobile.

    And yes, statistically atrocious defensively. Also looks terrible to the eye. Bad routes. Bad jumps. Bad throws.

  6. #1656

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    There's nothing "legendary" about being ranked #102 in exit velocity. Trout and Arenado are much better players. Their xwOBA based on their batting profiles are much higher. The question posted was is Clint's bat speed legendary. Based on the numbers thus far, no it isn't. Baseball savant had a estimated bat speed category, I can't find it. Maybe has something to do with being on mobile.

    And yes, statistically atrocious defensively. Also looks terrible to the eye. Bad routes. Bad jumps. Bad throws.
    I saw glimpses of his bat speed despite your 102 ranking which is about 78% higher than those measured in that metrics. Not bad for 142 plate appearances without any regular playing time. As to his defense, he needs some more refinement, but he's not a butcher out there in the field. Anyhow, based on our posting history it's shocking we disagree on Frazier.

  7. #1657
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    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by just-blaze View Post
    Great point. Take the package being offered for Stanton and go for Votto then.
    Have you checked out Votto's age lately? How much longer will he perform at the elite level he is currently at/ And his contract takes him thru age 40!!


    Votto is also 1 10 & 5 guy, so he basically has a no-trade clause.

  8. #1658
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    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    I'd do Votto for Ells + some stuff.

    However I don't think there is any chance the Reds do it. Could never sell it to their fan base.

  9. #1659
    2009 WORLD CHAMPIONS aeromac76's Avatar
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    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees1962 View Post
    You mean the 34 year old Votto still with 157M guaranteed money left on his contract? No thanks!
    If they took Ellsbury back I think I would do it even with Votto's contract. Votto's game, especially as a DH, seems like it would age well..
    I used to think I was crazy... Now I am sure of it..

  10. #1660
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    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by aeromac76 View Post
    If they took Ellsbury back I think I would do it even with Votto's contract. Votto's game, especially as a DH, seems like it would age well..
    The problem is they would be acquiring an extra 100 Million in salary committments that extend out well beyond Ellsbury's deal. It would limit what they can do down the road. If they are going to trade Ellsbury my preference is they eat a large chunk of the contract which would save a few dollars and open up a valuable roster spot (as opposed to assuming another problematic contract).

  11. #1661
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    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vanderlay View Post
    The problem is they would be acquiring an extra 100 Million in salary committments that extend out well beyond Ellsbury's deal. It would limit what they can do down the road. If they are going to trade Ellsbury my preference is they eat a large chunk of the contract which would save a few dollars and open up a valuable roster spot (as opposed to assuming another problematic contract).
    This^^^.


    We can't take on another large commitment for an aging guy who will clog up the DH spot for years.

  12. #1662

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Dear Santa,

    We would like to get like CC back, trade for Stanton and japanese pitcher sub mariner Kazuhisa Makita under our tree christmas present.

    sincerely

    Yankees Fans.

  13. #1663

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by OdiN9 View Post
    Dear Santa,

    We would like to get like CC back, trade for Stanton and japanese pitcher sub mariner Kazuhisa Makita under our tree christmas present.

    sincerely

    Yankees Fans.
    Yes, no and NO.

  14. #1664
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    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vanderlay View Post
    The problem is they would be acquiring an extra 100 Million in salary committments that extend out well beyond Ellsbury's deal. It would limit what they can do down the road. If they are going to trade Ellsbury my preference is they eat a large chunk of the contract which would save a few dollars and open up a valuable roster spot (as opposed to assuming another problematic contract).
    1) How much do you realistically expect to save on Ells contract? How much are you going to spend to bring in a Votto type hitter (eg JD). Who is really no where near Votto in terms of consistency.

    2) It's not really an extra 100m. It's more 80-90. Especially if Ells requires picking up his option year to waive his NTC. Then you are talking about 60-70.

    3) You get the best hitter in baseball for another 2-3 years to go with your very cheap core. Perhaps he declines from there but hits well into his late 30. Not unheard of it. It's a no brainer for me. Very unlikely the Reds would consider it.

  15. #1665

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Ben Badler‏
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    Replying to @scheppy_william @AaronTheLess
    I think Yankees are still favorites for Salinas and Cabello. Haven't heard them on Marte.

  16. #1666

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    1) How much do you realistically expect to save on Ells contract? How much are you going to spend to bring in a Votto type hitter (eg JD). Who is really no where near Votto in terms of consistency.

    2) It's not really an extra 100m. It's more 80-90. Especially if Ells requires picking up his option year to waive his NTC. Then you are talking about 60-70.

    3) You get the best hitter in baseball for another 2-3 years to go with your very cheap core. Perhaps he declines from there but hits well into his late 30. Not unheard of it. It's a no brainer for me. Very unlikely the Reds would consider it.
    Yeah. If Votto is traded, it won't be a dump. He'll cost prime prospects.

  17. #1667

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post

    2) It's not really an extra 100m. It's more 80-90. Especially if Ells requires picking up his option year to waive his NTC. Then you are talking about 60-70
    That logic is a bit flawed. Whether or not the Yankees exercise or Cincy picks up the option year makes no difference to the Yankees as far as future savings is concerned- they wouldn't exercise it if he wasn't traded nor would they do it before a deal was in place. Or am I missing something?

  18. #1668
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    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by freebubba View Post
    That logic is a bit flawed. Whether or not the Yankees exercise or Cincy picks up the option year makes no difference to the Yankees as far as future savings is concerned- they wouldn't exercise it if he wasn't traded nor would they do it before a deal was in place. Or am I missing something?
    In order for Ells to waive his NTC, he may require a team pickup his option year. Which adds to the overall salary required to eat to get a deal done. So either you eat that in a salary dump trade or your eat that via Votto contract offset. I'd take the latter.

  19. #1669

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    In order for Ells to waive his NTC, he may require a team pickup his option year. Which adds to the overall salary required to eat to get a deal done. So either you eat that in a salary dump trade or your eat that via Votto contract offset. I'd take the latter.
    Roger that. I assumed you had the Reds picking up 100% of Ell's salary.

  20. #1670
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    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mbn007 View Post
    This^^^.


    We can't take on another large commitment for an aging guy who will clog up the DH spot for years.
    We already have the aging guy that will take up the DH spot for years...his name is Jacoby Ellsbury
    [SIZE=3]"Scooter - RIP and thank you for being part of my childhood"[/SIZE]

  21. #1671

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BeantownYankee View Post
    We already have the aging guy that will take up the DH spot for years...his name is Jacoby Ellsbury
    That is totally unfair to Joey Votto. Seriously.

  22. #1672

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BeantownYankee View Post
    We already have the aging guy that will take up the DH spot for years...his name is Jacoby Ellsbury
    Slight difference between Jacoby Ellsbury and one of the greatest hitters in the history of the sport.

  23. #1673

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Anyway to get Ells off the team might be acceptable at this point, no matter what return we get. He's another body logging the OF at this point.

  24. #1674

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Is it feasible to try and trade for arenado now?
    IMO, that is a bigger need than Stanton.

  25. #1675
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    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    1) How much do you realistically expect to save on Ells contract? How much are you going to spend to bring in a Votto type hitter (eg JD). Who is really no where near Votto in terms of consistency.

    2) It's not really an extra 100m. It's more 80-90. Especially if Ells requires picking up his option year to waive his NTC. Then you are talking about 60-70.

    3) You get the best hitter in baseball for another 2-3 years to go with your very cheap core. Perhaps he declines from there but hits well into his late 30. Not unheard of it. It's a no brainer for me. Very unlikely the Reds would consider it.
    If they can get Votto straight up for Ellsbury that would obviously be attractive, however I suspect the Yankees will have to give up good prospects in the deal and I would not be willing to assume that contract and give up prospects even if they took Ellsbury's entire deal. Ellsbury is owed about 68 million over the next three years which is sunk cost. If they can get someone to assume 5-8 million a year of that deal in return of a marginal prospect I would do it in a heart beat.

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