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  1. #3451

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Matt Kardos‏Verified account
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    Gerrit Cole is not a league average starter. Yes, he had a bad 2017 on a putrid Pirates club. He's tossed over 200 innings in two of last three years. Has a career 3.50 ERA and is two seasons removed from having a Cy Young caliber year. Has won double digit games in 4 of 5 years.

  2. #3452

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Matt Kardos‏Verified account
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    I don't know if/when a Cole trade may go down. But I've covered Chance Adams a great deal. He's a good prospect. But at his max potential I hope that he gives me what I already know Cole can. A lot can be said about putting Cole back into a competitive atmosphere. He'll thrive.

  3. #3453

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Matt Kardos‏Verified account
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    I remember talking to Cole here very early on in my time in Trenton. Still one of the best pitchers I've covered in the Eastern League. Would be a fantastic get for the Yankees

  4. #3454

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread


  5. #3455
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    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    For anyone who wonders who Matt Kardos is, he's the Trenton beat writer. He did cover Chance a lot.

  6. #3456

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Still not crazy about Cole tbh. Especially for Frazier+Adams+.

  7. #3457
    NYYF MVP

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    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Snatch Catch View Post
    Besides Glasnow from the Pirates, I wonder if the Cardinals would be willing to part with any of Reyes, Flaherty, or Weaver for a prospect package. Frazier is probably not as a appealing now that they've got Ozuna to go along with Pham and Fowler, so I wonder what it would take from them?
    As much as I'd like one more top of the rotation guy, I don't see that ace out there. So I'm with you in that I would like to see Frazier get traded for a young SP with 5+ years of control left even if the guy isn't a slam dunk. Reyes certainly stands out there for me and after missing a whole year, maybe Frazier for Reyes could be done.

    Another team that matches up is the Braves. Luiz Gohara or Kyle Wright would be nice acquisitions.

  8. #3458

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Thanks for your reply. I appreciate it. I wouldnít try to dispute your opinion because itís perfectly valid. I would like to look a little closer at some of the factsinvolved in this situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by ElDandy View Post
    I can absolutely see your point here outside of the idea of "nitpicking". I also don't think it's nitpicking to point out flaws in need of correction or issues in need of addressing. To assume he can never get better at it would be unfair to him and his development. For me the concerns I have are that the fact he seemed to really hit a wall late in the year as he got pushed behind his normal innings capacity only strengthen the idea he just might be a reliever.

    Still I see his value and understand. I guess I'm a "year too late" kinda guy where others are a "year too soon" kinda guy. For me it's similar to Miguel Andujar.


    Well I mean I understand what you're saying. I would just counter that this is their plan or has been their plan from the get go. Originally it was CC and Ohtani but now it's CC and -insert starter here- with Montgomery likely slotting into AAA as insurance. Chances are that's what this team views him as. It's fair to point out that he wasn't their top option for the job out of spring training and they acquired two different starters in July seemingly for the purpose of moving him back to AAA.
    Yes, some have said that they wanted to send Montgomery down. I donít know that the facts support that.

    1. They did not in fact send him down after the trade. He didnít in fact make that minor league start until August 24, almost 4 weeks after the trade for Garcia. So, if they made those trades to send him down, itís odd that they didnít do it until almost a month later.

    2. When they finally sent him down, he was coming off 3 consecutive starts with a combined ERA of 2.93. Again an odd time to send him down when he was pitching very effectively. More likely they sent him down because they could. He was the one on a staff overcrowded with starters who had options.

    3. The consensus of opinion seemed to be that if they had been able to close the deal on Gray a couple of days earlier, they never would have traded Garcia. They were desperate to find a replacement for Pineda, so they went for the sure thing when the Gray deal was uncertain and time was running out.

    4. On the day they made the Garcia deal, Tanaka had an ERA of 5.56, had given up 5 runs or more in 3 of his previous 6 starts and 5 of his previous 9. They didnít know what was going on with him. They must have been remembering they had to skip a start or 2 with him late the previous year. CCís health has always been a walking question mark in recent years. A month before the trade, they had to have him skip a couple of starts. Bottom line is that there were a lot of uncertainties about the rotation at that point in the season. They didnít have a reliable #2. I think thatís what they were looking for, and thatís what they ultimately traded for. Itís not a knock on a rookie to say that he hasnít yet developed into a #2.

    That's not to suggest they don't like him of course but they don't see him the way maybe others do. Maybe they're just concerned that the dreaded sophomore slump that seemed to claim Joba, IPK, Hughes and recently Severino will be in play as well?


    It's also worth pointing out that his second half wasn't really necessarily the stuff of legend either. He didn't completely crater but he DID struggle as young pitchers tend to do from time to time. I think we could all argue that the yoyo act didn't help of course. His second half was really saved by three starts at the end of the year when the O's and Rays were really playing out the string. It doesn't mitigate what he accomplished mind you but if we're searching for how's and why's then maybe the second half spooked 'em.
    Those are some good facts. Let me add to them what I mentioned above. In addition to those 3 starts at the end of the season, there were also those 3 terrific starts immediately after the trade (2.93 ERA) against the Indians and then back-to-back against the Red Sox. His 2nd half wasnít just a steady decline until his last 3 starts. It was more up and down with other good starts besides the 3 I mentioned.

    I don't entirely like all three options but it's absolutely fair to suggest that the heights of the three arms you suggested will never reach the highs that Fulmer, Cole and Duffy have reached. You're comparing two pretty good minor league arms and one arm who has achieved a successful rookie season with warts to a guy who flirted with the NL Cy Young, the 2016 AL Rookie of the Year and a guy who I'm eh on but surely has accomplished enough to be what people smarter than I would consider a high #2 for a team like this. On a contender, we've got a few maybes we're dealing with (Maybe Andujar can handle 3rd, maybe Torres is ready for 2nd, maybe Hicks is 1st half Hicks and not 2nd half Hicks etc etc) and grabbing another quality proven arm who can slot into the #4 or #5 spot on a very good rotation can at the very least give you one less maybe to be concerned about.
    I donít despite the past highs for the pitchers who have been mentioned. Looking forward, however, thereís no guarantee that they will ever reach them again, given the injury issues I mentioned. In Duffyís case there is the not-so-small issue of $52million that he is owed for the next 4 years. This for a team that is trying to shed payroll and will have a ton of pitching prospects ready to reach the majors in the next 4 years.


    And would Cole or Fulmer really holding back the development of Chance Adams? Montgomery I can get the argument there but Adams by all accounts really could use another year working on things. You yourself laid out his flaws so I don't think acquiring a starter is going to hurt his development. Same goes for German who IMO will max out as Adam Warren-y which is still fantastic value for a ML career but not a guy who you slot into your rotation. You buy them a year to fix some flaws and if they're as good as we all believe they CAN be then maybe another year turns into a beneficial thing.
    Good points. Thanks.

  9. #3459

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by OdiN9 View Post
    Matt Kardos‏Verified account
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    If you're a Yankees fan of the belief that Chance Adams has stronger potential than Gerrit Cole, you're sadly mistaken.
    The issue with Cole isnít his potential. Itís his injury history that has limited him to 21-22 starts in 2 of the last 4 years. Do the Yankees want to give up prospects for a guy who may be challenged to stay healthy?

  10. #3460

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Are Yankees looking for bench help for lf/1h/dh/ would Matt Adams be suitable and sign him to minor league deal for lf and 1b/dh?

  11. #3461
    Yankees your 27 time WS Champs MyBoysKaosHavoK's Avatar
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    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by HughesIsNasty View Post
    Still not crazy about Cole tbh. Especially for Frazier+Adams+.
    ^^^This^^^

    Keep our young guys and see what they can do...

    Not saying they will become Judge & Severino but I remember when there was talk of trading them to Tampa for Price. I get ill even thinking about that....
    In the Land of the Blind. The One Eyed Man is King......

  12. #3462

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by OdiN9 View Post
    Matt Kardos‏Verified account
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    Gerrit Cole is not a league average starter. Yes, he had a bad 2017 on a putrid Pirates club. He's tossed over 200 innings in two of last three years. Has a career 3.50 ERA and is two seasons removed from having a Cy Young caliber year. Has won double digit games in 4 of 5 years.
    Why would the Pirates want to give up on a pitcher whoís only 27 and had a CY caliber season 2 years ago? Because heíll be coming into money? The Yankees have money issues over their own and will have demands on their payroll as their young stars mature.

  13. #3463

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by OdiN9 View Post
    Matt Kardos‏Verified account
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    I remember talking to Cole here very early on in my time in Trenton. Still one of the best pitchers I've covered in the Eastern League. Would be a fantastic get for the Yankees
    Iím sure the Yankees agree since he was their #1 pick out of HS 9 years ago.

  14. #3464

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Iíll completely buy the fact that cole going from a bad team to a great team could help him thrive
    Baseball games are not won with a formula. If you can hit, they will find a place for you

  15. #3465

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    If I'm Yankees I sell high on Hicks, put Gardner in CF and Frazier in LF with Stanton/Judge alternate RF/DH. Might be able able to get a nice prospect for Hicks. They can always look for SP around TDL. Sevy/Masa/Gray/CC/Monty is good

  16. #3466

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ny27xwschamps View Post
    Andujar's defense is not ready for the majors, and Drury had better numbers than Chase Headley and makes 550K.. and his defense is good enough for 3B, he can also play all over the place, has already played 6 positions.
    Drury did not have better numbers than Headley and his defensive metrics aren't good at 3rd in an extremely small sample size, so I have really no idea what you're talking about.

  17. #3467
    I've made a huge mistake Gob Rules's Avatar
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    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ny27xwschamps View Post
    If I'm Yankees I sell high on Hicks, put Gardner in CF and Frazier in LF with Stanton/Judge alternate RF/DH. Might be able able to get a nice prospect for Hicks. They can always look for SP around TDL. Sevy/Masa/Gray/CC/Monty is good
    This is what I would do too. I rather have Frazier than Hicks long term because Florial will take over center and Frazier will take over left when Gardner retires/leaves

  18. #3468

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by OdiN9 View Post
    Justin Broyles GZSR‏
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    Almost all of Pittsburgh believes that the #Pirates will trade Gerrit Cole during the Steelers-Patriots game to limit fan backlash. Would not be shocked if that was the case
    Please stop posting garbage tweets from garbage accounts.

  19. #3469

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ny27xwschamps View Post
    If I'm Yankees I sell high on Hicks, put Gardner in CF and Frazier in LF with Stanton/Judge alternate RF/DH. Might be able able to get a nice prospect for Hicks. They can always look for SP around TDL. Sevy/Masa/Gray/CC/Monty is good
    That weakens the defense quite a bit, but I see the upside there.

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