+ Reply to Thread
Page 74 of 261 FirstFirst ... 24 64 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 84 124 174 ... LastLast
Results 1,826 to 1,850 of 6519
  1. #1826

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Vanderlay View Post
    Since I would be willing to trade Ellsbury for little or nothing in return I guess the question is what would Ellsbury be worth on the open market? My assumption is 5-8 million AAV. If that assumption is incorrect then the entire premise of my post gets flushed down the toilet.
    My bad Art, I read it as you only having the Yankees picking up the $5-$8 per year. Hopefully, we'll be able to put this whole Ellsbury discussion to bed after the winter meetings.

  2. #1827
    NYYF Legend

    ClownPickle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    San Diego

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by cleanuphtr24 View Post
    If the Marlins are taking back Ells, there's no way they aren't also getting valuable prospects (read: Frazier +).
    The problem with this is it's not their decision. It's Stanton's. The teams he wants to go to don't really have any need for him. They'll be the ones dictating the terms.
    Calmer than you are

    7/30/2017: The day the Minnesota Twins bought a prospect from the New York Yankees.

  3. #1828

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    Yeah. It makes this even uglier. 30m AAV for Stanton. Pass. Unless they somehow eat all of Ells and Castro/Headley.

    Realistically though he doesn't fit on the team. You'd make the OF defense significantly weaker by moving Judge or Stanton to LF. Not to mention, making them a larger injury risk by needing to cover more ground.

    Go sign Lind. Perfect DH/Bird backup for pennies.
    This is why I don't see Stanton having a position on the Yankees given all the money and prospects that it would take.

  4. #1829
    NYYF Legend

    BomberBrian's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Eastchester, NY

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gusto View Post
    According to Cots, Sale's AAV is 12.5MM (not the 6.5MM of the ordinal contract) so it got recalculated in some way.
    Sales AAV changed because those are option years.

    When a contract is signed the AAV is calculated by the money in the guaranteed years (excluding any option years either player or team) plus money associated with a potential buyout of an option year.

    So in Sales case it was 0.85+3.5+6+9.15+12=31.5 million for the 5 year contract +1 mil for the buyout totals 32.5 mil/5 years which = the 6.5 AAV he had been carrying.

    If an option year is then picked up (again either team or player) the salary for that season becomes the AAV the player carries for that season. So the Red Sox picked up the 12.5 mil team option which is why he now carries a 12.5 AAV.

  5. #1830
    NYYF Legend

    flymick24's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    The urinal next door

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gusto View Post
    1. The Yankees need to move a full-time OFer as they would have 5 on the 25 man

    2. Yankees need to save the 13MM AAV to accommodate Stanton's contract. Moving Headley (paying down some of his contract) or Castro (8.5MM AAV) doesn't accomplish that.
    Frazier probably would get included in the deal, so that solves that... also, you need to keep Gardner around as insurance just in case Hicks turns back into his 2016 self (which is entirely possible)

    I don’t know why you assume Yankees would have to pay some down on Headley’s contract if they moved him... for this market, the money is reasonable, and he’s only got one year left... The return wouldn’t be great, but you have to think Cashman can find a taker at the winter meetings... I mean, it’s not like he was going to be starting at 3B for them next year anyway
    help feed the hungry:

    www.thehungersite.com

  6. #1831
    NYYF Legend


    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Brooklyn

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BomberBrian View Post
    Sales AAV changed because those are option years.

    When a contract is signed the AAV is calculated by the money in the guaranteed years (excluding any option years either player or team) plus money associated with a potential buyout of an option year.

    So in Sales case it was 0.85+3.5+6+9.15+12=31.5 million for the 5 year contract +1 mil for the buyout totals 32.5 mil/5 years which = the 6.5 AAV he had been carrying.

    If an option year is then picked up (again either team or player) the salary for that season becomes the AAV the player carries for that season. So the Red Sox picked up the 12.5 mil team option which is why he now carries a 12.5 AAV.
    How about the answer to the original question though? Would a trading team be on the hook AAV-wise for the original Stanton contract 13/325 (25) or the balance 10/295 (29.5)?

  7. #1832
    NYYF Legend


    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Brooklyn

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    There is absolutely no way, despite what they say, that the Marlins keep Stanton this offseason. It makes no sense for them. The Yanks may be able to dictate all the terms of this deal, assuming Stanton forces their hand.

  8. #1833

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BomberBrian View Post
    Sales AAV changed because those are option years.

    When a contract is signed the AAV is calculated by the money in the guaranteed years (excluding any option years either player or team) plus money associated with a potential buyout of an option year.

    So in Sales case it was 0.85+3.5+6+9.15+12=31.5 million for the 5 year contract +1 mil for the buyout totals 32.5 mil/5 years which = the 6.5 AAV he had been carrying.

    If an option year is then picked up (again either team or player) the salary for that season becomes the AAV the player carries for that season. So the Red Sox picked up the 12.5 mil team option which is why he now carries a 12.5 AAV.
    Perfect. Thank you

  9. #1834

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    Yeah. It makes this even uglier. 30m AAV for Stanton. Pass. Unless they somehow eat all of Ells and Castro/Headley.

    Realistically though he doesn't fit on the team. You'd make the OF defense significantly weaker by moving Judge or Stanton to LF. Not to mention, making them a larger injury risk by needing to cover more ground.

    Go sign Lind. Perfect DH/Bird backup for pennies.
    I thought that the trading team eating some cash has to show the "retained" portion of the contract as their payroll. Does that not count against them for luxury tax purposes?

  10. #1835
    NYYF Triple Crown


    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Seattle, WA

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84 View Post
    How about the answer to the original question though? Would a trading team be on the hook AAV-wise for the original Stanton contract 13/325 (25) or the balance 10/295 (29.5)?
    I believe they just assume the remaining terms of the contract. So it's $25m this year, $26m 2019 & 2020, $29m in 2021 & 2022, $32m 2023-2025, $29m in 2026, and $25m in 2027, with a $25m option in 2028 with $10m buyout.

  11. #1836
    NYYF Legend

    flymick24's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    The urinal next door

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84 View Post
    There is absolutely no way, despite what they say, that the Marlins keep Stanton this offseason. It makes no sense for them. The Yanks may be able to dictate all the terms of this deal, assuming Stanton forces their hand.
    All of these same things could be said of the Dodgers, and they’re reportedly his first choice

    Perhaps the Marlins are name-dropping the Yankees in hopes of getting the Dodgers to make a move? In the end, I don’t expect Cashman to pull the trigger (too many moving parts to a potential deal like this), but it’ll sure make for a fun Winter Meetings
    help feed the hungry:

    www.thehungersite.com

  12. #1837
    NYYF Legend

    Snatch Catch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    CA

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that the only MAJOR obstacle to wanting Stanton is his injury history.

    The contract itself isn't exactly team-friendly, but it's not a ridiculous mess like other contracts we've seen. It ends in Stanton's age 38 season, which isn't nearly the problem that most of the other longterm deals that turned ugly were.

    Since 2010:
    • Jeter was an All-Star and finished in the top-10 in the MVP voting in his age 38 season.
    • A-Rod's age 38 season was the year he was suspended. He came back with a nearly 3 WAR season at 39.
    • Beltran was very good offensively in his age 38 season.
    • Raul Ibanez was a productive offensive player in his age 38 season.
    • Ichiro was a subpar offensive player, but posted a 2.6 WAR season at age 38.
    • David Ortiz posted a 134 wRC+ in his age 38 season.
    • Torre Hunter posted a 114 wRC+ in his age 38 season.


    The problem with most players is the 39+ years which is where it starts to go from "this guy isn't exactly worth what we're paying him, but is still productive" to "THIS CONTRACT IS KILLING OUR TEAM RIGHT NOW."

    Cano's deal runs through his age 40 season, Votto will be 40 in the final year of his. Those are the contracts to run away from if your fear is complete and total albatross. Stanton's contract is daunting, but not nearly as much as the recent mega pacts that took the players into their 40s.

    The big question to me is if you believe in his ability to stay healthy, and there's a really poor track record with regards to that at this point. For $30 million AAV on a contract that finishes in the age 38 season I can see a team rolling the dice on an MVP caliber player in his prime.
    Jaret Wright's 2005 Cy Young Season: 20-3, 3.04 ERA

  13. #1838

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yankee Tripper View Post
    190 pitchers made at least 10 starts. 6.33 per MLB team.
    Thanks. So, 1 or 2 per team on average, which also means that included in the range are some teams who used none.

  14. #1839

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84 View Post
    How about the answer to the original question though? Would a trading team be on the hook AAV-wise for the original Stanton contract 13/325 (25) or the balance 10/295 (29.5)?
    I know that the AAV is based on the total money over the guaranteed years. What I am wondering is how the money the Marlins may eat comes into play. Do "retained" salaries count against the luxury tax threshold?

  15. #1840

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by flymick24 View Post
    Frazier probably would get included in the deal, so that solves that... also, you need to keep Gardner around as insurance just in case Hicks turns back into his 2016 self (which is entirely possible)

    I don’t know why you assume Yankees would have to pay some down on Headley’s contract if they moved him... for this market, the money is reasonable, and he’s only got one year left... The return wouldn’t be great, but you have to think Cashman can find a taker at the winter meetings... I mean, it’s not like he was going to be starting at 3B for them next year anyway
    Like you said, Headley is not going to be the Yankees starting 3B, despite having a hole there ... but you expect another team to take on 13MM to be their 3B. Besides, if they could move all of Headley's contract, they would have done it by now. Headley actually has some purpose on the 2018 Yankees as a switch hitting bench guy who can play both corner IF positions. Expensive bench role, but useful.

    If the Yankees take on Stanton, I don't see a player of Frazier's caliber in the prospect package. Maybe I'm wrong if the money works well enough in Yankees favor.

  16. #1841
    NYYF Legend

    BomberBrian's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Eastchester, NY

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by THEBOSS84 View Post
    How about the answer to the original question though? Would a trading team be on the hook AAV-wise for the original Stanton contract 13/325 (25) or the balance 10/295 (29.5)?
    His AAV would remain the 25.

  17. #1842

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by flymick24 View Post
    Frazier probably would get included in the deal, so that solves that... also, you need to keep Gardner around as insurance just in case Hicks turns back into his 2016 self (which is entirely possible)
    They would be better off keeping Ellsbury as the backup CF rather than Gardner. They can probably only dump ca. 6 of Ellsbury's contract next year (assuming he agrees to a trade to a team willing to take on as much as 18 million over three years), while they could dump all of Gardner's 13 million. The Yankees would be much, much more dangerous next year with Stanton, minus Gardner. No one can debate that seriously.

    That said, I can understand hesitating to commit to Stanton's contract long term and giving up a couple of valuable prospect to boot. But is Stanton's contract really worse than the much bigger contract Harper will get next year?

  18. #1843

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BomberBrian View Post
    His AAV would remain the 25.
    That is my understanding as well.

  19. #1844
    NYYF Legend

    BomberBrian's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Eastchester, NY

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by freebubba View Post
    I know that the AAV is based on the total money over the guaranteed years. What I am wondering is how the money the Marlins may eat comes into play. Do "retained" salaries count against the luxury tax threshold?
    Yes, the paying team will retain their portion of the salary on their luxury tax calc and the receiving team would receive credit on their AAV calc.

  20. #1845

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by freebubba View Post
    I know that the AAV is based on the total money over the guaranteed years. What I am wondering is how the money the Marlins may eat comes into play. Do "retained" salaries count against the luxury tax threshold?
    Retained salaries count for the team that pays them. Hence, the Yankees would have to count the retained salary of Ellsbury if they dump him in a trade, just as the Marlins would have to with Stanton.

  21. #1846
    NYYF Legend

    ClownPickle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    San Diego

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BomberBrian View Post
    His AAV would remain the 25.
    What was Chris Sales AAV last season? I keep seeing 12m everywhere. If what you are saying is right. Wouldnt it be much lower?

    Edit:. Nevermind. You are right.

    While Sale will make $12 million in 2017, for luxury tax purposes — which calculate the average annual value of the deal — he will count for just $6,769,562.50 against the team’s payroll.
    https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/r...ODbfO/amp.html
    Calmer than you are

    7/30/2017: The day the Minnesota Twins bought a prospect from the New York Yankees.

  22. #1847

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by rajah View Post
    They would be better off keeping Ellsbury as the backup CF rather than Gardner. They can probably only dump ca. 6 of Ellsbury's contract next year (assuming he agrees to a trade to a team willing to take on as much as 18 million over three years), while they could dump all of Gardner's 13 million. The Yankees would be much, much more dangerous next year with Stanton, minus Gardner. No one can debate that seriously.

    That said, I can understand hesitating to commit to Stanton's contract long term and giving up a couple of valuable prospect to boot. But is Stanton's contract really worse than the much bigger contract Harper will get next year?
    Stanton at 25MM AAV will pale compared to Harper's eventual contract.

  23. #1848
    NYYF Legend

    BomberBrian's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Eastchester, NY

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    What was Chris Sales AAV last season? I keep seeing 12m everywhere. If what you are saying is right. Wouldnt it be much lower?
    His AAV in 2017 was 6.5

  24. #1849
    NYYF Legend

    NelsonMuntz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Alexandria, VA

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gusto View Post
    Stanton at 25MM AAV will pale compared to Harper's eventual contract.
    That's a good point.
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  25. #1850

    Re: 2017-2018 Hot Stove Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    The problem with this is it's not their decision. It's Stanton's. The teams he wants to go to don't really have any need for him. They'll be the ones dictating the terms.
    It's not their decision where they trade Stanton... It absolutely is their decision whether they take back an awful contract like Ellsbury's. If Stanton named 4 teams and the Yankees offer Ells as part of their package, they'll need a decent prospect package to put them on par with any team that "just" offers to take back the contract.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts