+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    NYYF HOF


    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Nassau County

    The "Starters Must Pitch 5 Innings To Get A Win" Rule

    If the Yankees win today, it will be the third consecutive win in which the Yankees starter pitched fewer than 5 innings. There's no way to force managers to leave starters in longer, and if the percent of innings pitched by relievers (about 3/8ths = 37.5%) remains the same or increases, the 5 inning rule gives too many relief pitchers wins when they are brought in while winning and should get a hold instead. Unless the rule is changed to something like 4 1/3 innings, the win statistic becomes a worse indicator of what happened. If the reason for the rule is that a starter who pitched fewer than 5 innings couldn't have pitched well, I think there are now too many times where that isn't the case when starters are taken out early. I know there are times where a pitcher gets a win because he blew the save, but just because pitchers can get wins for pitching poorly that way doesn't make relievers who are brought in while winning and hold the lead any more deserving of wins. Unfortunately, there's no quick way of finding out how often a starter leaves winning after fewer than 5 innings and his team holds the lead. I can find a list of times when starters pitched fewer than 5 innings in games their team won, but that doesn't tell if the team led continuously from when the starter was taken out through the end.

  2. #2
    NYYF Legend

    Nome's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    Branchburg, NJ 08876

    Re: The "Starters Must Pitch 5 Innings To Get A Win" Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by EvanJ View Post
    If the Yankees win today, it will be the third consecutive win in which the Yankees starter pitched fewer than 5 innings. There's no way to force managers to leave starters in longer, and if the percent of innings pitched by relievers (about 3/8ths = 37.5%) remains the same or increases, the 5 inning rule gives too many relief pitchers wins when they are brought in while winning and should get a hold instead. Unless the rule is changed to something like 4 1/3 innings, the win statistic becomes a worse indicator of what happened. If the reason for the rule is that a starter who pitched fewer than 5 innings couldn't have pitched well, I think there are now too many times where that isn't the case when starters are taken out early. I know there are times where a pitcher gets a win because he blew the save, but just because pitchers can get wins for pitching poorly that way doesn't make relievers who are brought in while winning and hold the lead any more deserving of wins. Unfortunately, there's no quick way of finding out how often a starter leaves winning after fewer than 5 innings and his team holds the lead. I can find a list of times when starters pitched fewer than 5 innings in games their team won, but that doesn't tell if the team led continuously from when the starter was taken out through the end.


    Lets not change the rule. If a starter cannot go 5 innings, he doesn't deserve the win. In general starters make far more than relievers. They are expected to do more than 5 innings for that kind of money.


    Andy
    Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.

  3. #3
    NYYF Legend

    -tz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    NYC

    Re: The "Starters Must Pitch 5 Innings To Get A Win" Rule

    I see the point, though. If the starter doesn't complete five innings, and there is more than one relief pitcher, the win goes to "the relief pitcher who, in the official scorer's judgment was the most effective." But if, for instance, the starter pitched four and 2/3 shutout innings and left with a lead, and then three relief pitchers came in and each one gave up two or three runs (but the lead was never lost) ... is there any question but that the game's most effective pitcher, on the winning side, was in fact the starter?

    With the aggressive use of bullpens in today's game (now at 37.5% of innings pitched, as EvanJ tells us), maybe this is in fact a rule that could use rethinking, if not now, then a few years down the road. It's also possible that the salary discrepancy between starters and relievers will diminish if the quality of bullpen arms in general continues to rise.

  4. #4
    NYYF Legend

    Nome's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    Branchburg, NJ 08876

    Re: The "Starters Must Pitch 5 Innings To Get A Win" Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by -tz View Post
    I see the point, though. If the starter doesn't complete five innings, and there is more than one relief pitcher, the win goes to "the relief pitcher who, in the official scorer's judgment was the most effective." But if, for instance, the starter pitched four and 2/3 shutout innings and left with a lead, and then three relief pitchers came in and each one gave up two or three runs (but the lead was never lost) ... is there any question but that the game's most effective pitcher, on the winning side, was in fact the starter?

    With the aggressive use of bullpens in today's game (now at 37.5% of innings pitched, as EvanJ tells us), maybe this is in fact a rule that could use rethinking, if not now, then a few years down the road. It's also possible that the salary discrepancy between starters and relievers will diminish if the quality of bullpen arms in general continues to rise.


    It seems to me that a very large percentage of ML pitchers (possibly as high as 50%) can occasionally register 100mpg on the radar gun. This coupled with sliders, curves and whatnot take an extreme measure on their arms. The number of TJ surgeries is rising dramatically. Pitchers lives are shortened by the time they spend on the DL> there will come a time when the owners realize that they cannot economically support these large salaries and contract length and they will have to take steps to minimize their losses. The players union will cry "collusion" but these steps will and need to happen


    Andy
    Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.

  5. #5

    Re: The "Starters Must Pitch 5 Innings To Get A Win" Rule

    All they need to do is tweak the rule thusly:

    The win goes to "the pitcher who, in the official scorer's judgment was the most deserving." I don't see why the starter should be explicitly excluded from the decision.

    But I'm fine with the way it is even though it's kind of arbitrary.

    Wins aren't a great stat.
    /sarcasm
    KayNOTForPresident

  6. #6
    NYYF Legend

    Nome's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    Branchburg, NJ 08876

    Re: The "Starters Must Pitch 5 Innings To Get A Win" Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by KayForPresident View Post
    All they need to do is tweak the rule thusly:

    The win goes to "the pitcher who, in the official scorer's judgment was the most deserving." I don't see why the starter should be explicitly excluded from the decision.

    But I'm fine with the way it is even though it's kind of arbitrary.

    Wins aren't a great stat.


    Wins are an interesting stat but as you state they aren't a great stat and do not truly reflect a pitchers skill and worth.


    Andyt
    Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.

  7. #7
    Hello dum-dum... effdamets's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    In front of the TV

    Re: The "Starters Must Pitch 5 Innings To Get A Win" Rule

    This is a VERY interesting topic for discussion.


    It's very solvable... (people may not like this)


    If the umpires called more strikes, pitchers might be able to get through 5 innings using less than 100 pitches.
    There are SO many pitches that should be called strikes that simply aren't.
    A pitch that crossed the plate at the belt..... should be a strike.
    I have way too often seen that exact pitch called a ball.


    I'm OK with the rule staying as is.


    But let's face it - when the zone got smaller, the game changed.
    Pace of play.... pitcher health...
    "Leave it to Yankees fans to be upset at having too many great players.Hitman23

  8. #8
    NYYF Legend

    Nome's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    Branchburg, NJ 08876

    Re: The "Starters Must Pitch 5 Innings To Get A Win" Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by effdamets View Post
    This is a VERY interesting topic for discussion.


    It's very solvable... (people may not like this)


    If the umpires called more strikes, pitchers might be able to get through 5 innings using less than 100 pitches.
    There are SO many pitches that should be called strikes that simply aren't.
    A pitch that crossed the plate at the belt..... should be a strike.
    I have way too often seen that exact pitch called a ball.


    I'm OK with the rule staying as is.


    But let's face it - when the zone got smaller, the game changed.
    Pace of play.... pitcher health...



    If only MLB would enforce the rule book strike Zone and penalize any umpire who has his own interpretation of the Zone.


    Andy
    Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.

  9. #9
    NYYF Legend

    JDPNYY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Still under the unfinished breezeway

    Re: The "Starters Must Pitch 5 Innings To Get A Win" Rule

    Electronic ball and strike calling.
    Equally as calm as ClownPickle ~(+/- 1)

  10. #10
    NYYF Legend

    Nome's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    Branchburg, NJ 08876

    Re: The "Starters Must Pitch 5 Innings To Get A Win" Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    Electronic ball and strike calling.


    Why not? It will cut 30 minutes off the game time with quick decisions. Lets even go to electronic base umpires, then we need no instant replays. Another 30 minutes saved


    Andy
    Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts