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  1. #326

    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePinStripes View Post
    Why would he come across the world, to a country that might as well be another planet*, to play on a team that will be lucky to be mediocre in a very small market? I guess it's possible, but not very likely.


    *of all the places I've visited, from the Middle East to South America to Europe, Japan was by far the strangest relatively speaking. Everywhere is basically the same as here, with slight variations in different languages and of different levels of wealth. Japan was like... holy crap.
    Japan struck me as being very similar to the US. Tokyo being very similar to NYC, in particular.

  2. #327
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    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    At first the Fighters put him in RF because of his arm strength. Later they didn't want to take chance with his heath so they put him at DH. Pitching is always first for them to manage Otani. Normally he wouldn't be the DH when he pitches.

    He didn't become a truely full time 2 way players until 2016. Before that his bat was not good enough to force the Fighters' hand. In 2016 his hitting breakout made the difference. The Fighters had to find room for his bat because he was hitting so well. He actually contributed more as a hitter than a pitcher during the Japan Series.

  3. #328
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    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    Disagree here. I'd go Tanaka> Otani> Darvish
    I agree with this ^^^. This is the correct ranking.

  4. #329

    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Tom
    3:18 Are the Dodgers the front runner for Otani?
    Steve Adams
    3:19 I don't think there's any real front-runner for him at this point. If you asked me to pick a team, I'd just go with one of the three AL clubs that can offer him the most money -- Rangers, Yankees and Twins.

    Also, for the record (as we noted the other day) -- we've confirmed that he'll likely move forward with the "Ohtani" spelling of his last name in moving to American ball

  5. #330
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    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Sneaky sneaky. They previously had $3.245m. Now + 3m. That gives them the lead pool with $6.245 I believe.

    The Twins have voided the $3 million contract of 16-year-old Dominican shortstop Jelfry Marte due to an issue the team discovered during his physical.

    The Twins' concern, according to multiple sources, related to Marte's vision. Marte is now a free agent and worked out yesterday for clubs in Orlando along with a group of 2018 and 2019 players in the Dominican Prospect League.
    http://www.baseballamerica.com/inter...UOzC4ddYgcK.97
    Calmer than you are

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  6. #331
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    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    He would more than makeup that 3M dollars if he signs with a big market team. I still don't see him going to the Twins.

  7. #332

    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    To be clear, the Twins have $3.2 million to spend (according to AP) because of the Marte voiding. Not $3.2 million + a new $3 million.

    -JJ Cooper

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jjcoop36/...12562245120000

  8. #333
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    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Quote Originally Posted by albo4lyfe View Post
    To be clear, the Twins have $3.2 million to spend (according to AP) because of the Marte voiding. Not $3.2 million + a new $3 million.

    -JJ Cooper

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jjcoop36/...12562245120000
    Even more reason he's not going there. It's likely either the Yankees, Dodgers or Texas imho.

  9. #334
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    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Quote Originally Posted by albo4lyfe View Post
    To be clear, the Twins have $3.2 million to spend (according to AP) because of the Marte voiding. Not $3.2 million + a new $3 million.

    -JJ Cooper

    https://mobile.twitter.com/jjcoop36/...12562245120000
    Oh weird. I guess that was old news it was voided and was already factored in. Thanks.
    Calmer than you are

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  10. #335
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    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    https://www.fanragsports.com/heyman-...s-on-hold/amp/

    So basically the situation is that Otani doesn't want the money and wants to play in MLB A.S.A.P. But the Union says no because it's unfair for him to get this little money.

  11. #336
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    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Quote Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
    https://www.fanragsports.com/heyman-...s-on-hold/amp/

    So basically the situation is that Otani doesn't want the money and wants to play in MLB A.S.A.P. But the Union says no because it's unfair for him to get this little money.
    Under a deal the union agreed to.
    If they ask who was our star, give them 25 names, and if you forget our names, just tell them we were Yankees.

  12. #337

    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Quote Originally Posted by CalYankeeFan View Post
    Under a deal the union agreed to.
    Yep. Screw the union. They're such hypocritical idiots. They pushed for an international spending cap! They really should just keep their mouths shut. They're making themselves look really bad pulling this senseless BS.

  13. #338
    Brien "The Incident" just-blaze's Avatar
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    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Quote Originally Posted by smckdwn989 View Post
    Even more reason he's not going there. It's likely either the Yankees, Dodgers or Texas imho.
    Eh.....Seattle, SF, Chicago, and Angels have just as good a chance, but that's still a very good chance for us.

    SD and Houston could be dark horses.

  14. #339
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalYankeeFan View Post
    Under a deal the union agreed to.
    The deal expired, and any new one is subject to collective bargaining. The union is doing its job.

    I am a proud union member, btw.

  15. #340
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    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    It's not even a sure thing that Ohtani comes over at this point, let alone that he signs with us. We should be seriously preparing to make a run at Maitan as a contingency plan.
    On the other hand, you have different fingers.


    my blog: http://nybaseballoffice.blogspot.com

  16. #341

    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Quote Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
    At first the Fighters put him in RF because of his arm strength. Later they didn't want to take chance with his heath so they put him at DH. Pitching is always first for them to manage Otani. Normally he wouldn't be the DH when he pitches.

    He didn't become a truely full time 2 way players until 2016. Before that his bat was not good enough to force the Fighters' hand. In 2016 his hitting breakout made the difference. The Fighters had to find room for his bat because he was hitting so well. He actually contributed more as a hitter than a pitcher during the Japan Series.
    Thanks for the insights, Kan.

  17. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    The deal expired, and any new one is subject to collective bargaining. The union is doing its job.

    I am a proud union member, btw.
    Are they doing their job against the player's wish? The age limit and the spending limit are agreed by them. This agreement didn't expire. They didn't care. Suddenly they think it's unfair when they know the Fighters could get $20M? Those money which Otani wants no part of it?

    This 'old' rule will also be replaced after this year. So it wouldn't set any precedent in the future. What benefits are they protecting for their members?

  18. #343
    Tends to be difficult JL25and3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
    Are they doing their job against the player's wish? The age limit and the spending limit are agreed by them. This agreement didn't expire. They didn't care. Suddenly they think it's unfair when they know the Fighters could get $20M? Those money which Otani wants no part of it?

    This 'old' rule will also be replaced after this year. So it wouldn't set any precedent in the future. What benefits are they protecting for their members?
    Even if Iím willing to accept a promotion at a lower salary than the job title warrants, my union would not permit me to, and correctly so.

  19. #344
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    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Yeah. Mad dumb. The players union agreed to screw over international players and are now somehow surprised and upset by it? Tony Clark is bad.
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  20. #345
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    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Quote Originally Posted by JL25and3 View Post
    Even if I’m willing to accept a promotion at a lower salary than the job title warrants, my union would not permit me to, and correctly so.
    Bad analogy.

    It's more like your union setting a cap for new employee salaries, then later being upset by it because of the amount you are paying the recruiter.
    Calmer than you are

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  21. #346
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    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Quote Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
    Are they doing their job against the player's wish? The age limit and the spending limit are agreed by them. This agreement didn't expire. They didn't care. Suddenly they think it's unfair when they know the Fighters could get $20M? Those money which Otani wants no part of it?

    This 'old' rule will also be replaced after this year. So it wouldn't set any precedent in the future. What benefits are they protecting for their members?
    The union gets some percentage of Ohtani's salary, right? I'd imagine that's what this is about. They'd rather see him get that huge contract than peanuts.

    They obviously don't care what he wants.

  22. #347

    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    For clarification, this is the governing law.

    The MLBPA, like any union, has a legal duty to represent members of its bargaining unit. That bargaining unit consists of those ball players on the 40 man rosters. The union's duty is to exercise its bargaining leverage to maximize the benefits and working conditions extracted from the clubs for those 40 man occupants. If the union expended some of its bargaining leverage on helping those outside the unit, like teenagers in the D.R. (and their "agents") who want to get higher signing bonuses, they would risk a legal challenge from other players in the current unit. The union had to be careful in negotiations concerning the international draft desired by the owners. The union was limited in how much they could resist the owners' desire to reduce money spent on signing international players to minor league contracts. The current DR players pushed them to resist the draft, but the union could not resist the spending limits. They were actually not even subject to mandatory bargaining.

    The MLBPA current resistance on Ohtani's plan to come over early may derive from the concern of some current players that Ohtani's low salary now compared to his higher salary in two years will have a deflationary effect on what what free agents are offered. For instance, Darvish and Arrieta might get more if the teams know that Ohtani is not a cheaper option.

    I want Ohtani ASAP as much as any Yankee fan. But this anti-union bashing reflects ignorance of the MLBPA's responsibilities and perspectives.

    (And, btw, players pay dues to the union. The union is not an agent extracting a percentage of salaries.)

  23. #348
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    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Quote Originally Posted by rajah View Post
    For clarification, this is the governing law.

    The MLBPA, like any union, has a legal duty to represent members of its bargaining unit. That bargaining unit consists of those ball players on the 40 man rosters. The union's duty is to exercise its bargaining leverage to maximize the benefits and working conditions extracted from the clubs for those 40 man occupants. If the union expended some of its bargaining leverage on helping those outside the unit, like teenagers in the D.R. (and their "agents") who want to get higher signing bonuses, they would risk a legal challenge from other players in the current unit. The union had to be careful in negotiations concerning the international draft desired by the owners. The union was limited in how much they could resist the owners' desire to reduce money spent on signing international players to minor league contracts. The current DR players pushed them to resist the draft, but the union could not resist the spending limits. They were actually not even subject to mandatory bargaining.

    The MLBPA current resistance on Ohtani's plan to come over early may derive from the concern of some current players that Ohtani's low salary now compared to his higher salary in two years will have a deflationary effect on what what free agents are offered. For instance, Darvish and Arrieta might get more if the teams know that Ohtani is not a cheaper option.

    I want Ohtani ASAP as much as any Yankee fan. But this anti-union bashing reflects ignorance of the MLBPA's responsibilities and perspectives.

    (And, btw, players pay dues to the union. The union is not an agent extracting a percentage of salaries.)
    You're right about the dues. I stand corrected there. You certainly bring up some well thought out counterpoints here. But as for representing the current interests of the players, you could certainly argue the opposite about Darvish and Arrieta. If one of the top teams is forced to spend $150 mil instead of $23 mil for Ohtani, that's one less team that would be willing to shell out a large contract to another pitcher. In that case, it could actually deflate and not inflate their salaries. Now if they prevent Ohtani from coming at all this season, that would be a different story for players on the market now.

  24. #349
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    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob035 View Post
    You're right about the dues. I stand corrected there. You certainly bring up some well thought out counterpoints here. But as for representing the current interests of the players, you could certainly argue the opposite about Darvish and Arrieta. If one of the top teams is forced to spend $150 mil instead of $23 mil for Ohtani, that's one less team that would be willing to shell out a large contract to another pitcher. In that case, it could actually deflate and not inflate their salaries. Now if they prevent Ohtani from coming at all this season, that would be a different story for players on the market now.
    Exactly. They can't play pretend we care about an international players salary after agreeing to cap it.

    Not to mention the 20m posting fee (which doesn't count against the cap) will really have absolutely no affect on team's spending. Teams that are signing pitchers to 150-200m don't care about 20m that's not against the cap. Let's not buy into this dumb notion teams are poor.
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  25. #350
    News Breaker hairnovaaa's Avatar
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    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Jon Heyman:
    Breaking: players union sets Monday deadline to resolve posting issue. So in four days Otani could know if he'll be able to jump to MLB in '18.

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