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  1. #76
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    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Quote Originally Posted by pleasepassthesoup View Post
    You most likely just wouldn't have him bat on the days he pitches. It's probably not worth it to lose the DH for the rest of the game.
    Yeah, that's what I was wondering. Let's say he only lasts 5 innings -- then you're playing roulette with that spot in the lineup for 4+ innings.
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  2. #77

    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Quote Originally Posted by pleasepassthesoup View Post
    This is true in some levels of baseball, but in MLB it can only be for the pitcher.
    Really? I'm surprised to learn that.

  3. #78
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    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Can't be just sign a 1 year contract then be a free agent in 2019?

  4. #79
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    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Quote Originally Posted by PinstripeDynasty View Post
    Can't be just sign a 1 year contract then be a free agent in 2019?
    No. It's complicated, but essentially he will be signing a minor league deal and be subject to MLB's service time rules. He will not be eligible for free agency for 6 years.
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  5. #80

    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMuntz View Post
    Yeah, that's what I was wondering. Let's say he only lasts 5 innings -- then you're playing roulette with that spot in the lineup for 4+ innings.
    Why can't he stay in the game as DH even after he's been replaced as pitcher?

  6. #81

    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Why can't he stay in the game as DH even after he's been replaced as pitcher?
    Yeah, doesn't really make sense. If you a pitcher who is DHing, you are essentially playing 2 positions. If you vacate one, no reason you should have to vacate the other.

  7. #82
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    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Why can't he stay in the game as DH even after he's been replaced as pitcher?
    The rule doesn't work that way. If you have the starting pitcher in the batting order, you have waived the DH for that game.
    Equally as calm as ClownPickle ~(+/- 1)

  8. #83

    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Quote Originally Posted by JDPNYY View Post
    The rule doesn't work that way. If you have the starting pitcher in the batting order, you have waived the DH for that game.
    Thanks for the explanation. Much appreciated.

  9. #84
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    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Offseason To-Do List

    1. Get Otani
    2. Buyout Tanaka's opt-out option up to 8 MM$ depending on performance the rest of the way
    3. If 1 & 2 accomplished bid a fond farewell to CC. If not accomplished, resign for an incentive laden 1-year deal
    4. Trade Betances
    5. Get a BUC who can put up a .700 OPS
    6. Teach Sanchez how to block balls in the dirt
    7. Get a lefthanded power bat who mashes righties and can play RF to replace Holliday on roster

  10. #85
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    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Quote Originally Posted by NelsonMuntz View Post
    Yeah, that's what I was wondering. Let's say he only lasts 5 innings -- then you're playing roulette with that spot in the lineup for 4+ innings.
    You mean Russian roulette? Really no worse than when Romine is starting. Starting Romine is like playing Russian roulette with 6 bullets in the cylinder. If they got him, he could DH only on days he doesnt pitch.

  11. #86
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    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Quote Originally Posted by ChinMusic View Post
    You mean Russian roulette? Really no worse than when Romine is starting. Starting Romine is like playing Russian roulette with 6 bullets in the cylinder. If they got him, he could DH only on days he doesnt pitch.
    Lol, yeah I meant Russian Roulette and I'm still not sure if that is the right analogy but you get my point.
    David Ortiz tested positive for performance enhancing drugs in 2003.

  12. #87
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    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Quote Originally Posted by ChinMusic View Post
    Offseason To-Do List

    1. Get Otani
    2. Buyout Tanaka's opt-out option up to 8 MM$ depending on performance the rest of the way
    3. If 1 & 2 accomplished bid a fond farewell to CC. If not accomplished, resign for an incentive laden 1-year deal
    4. Trade Betances
    5. Get a BUC who can put up a .700 OPS
    6. Teach Sanchez how to block balls in the dirt
    7. Get a lefthanded power bat who mashes righties and can play RF to replace Holliday on roster
    Only trade Betances if you get an "out of this world" offer. Agree with the others.
    Speak softly but carry a big stick.

  13. #88

    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ27 View Post
    Only trade Betances if you get an "out of this world" offer. Agree with the others.
    Honest question. Do you really think other teams' GMs put that high a value on Betances?
    "Baseball is about hope, not confidence." -- rajah

  14. #89

    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Quote Originally Posted by rajah View Post
    You might be right, but teams will still try to change it.
    I think it's the Yankees. Just my to cents.

  15. #90
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    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    Honest question. Do you really think other teams' GMs put that high a value on Betances?
    A team in need of a legit closer, yes. But, I still don't see high enough value coming back in return for him. Similar to Gardy.......
    Speak softly but carry a big stick.

  16. #91

    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Quote Originally Posted by sweet_lou_14 View Post
    Honest question. Do you really think other teams' GMs put that high a value on Betances?
    I go back and forth on this. Chapman and Miller trades brought two teams to the WS. But when you can go get guys like Green or even guys like Roberston for just money, I don't see why you would pay big in prospects for relievers. Betances has no value if you're already losing by 5 runs every time he pitches.

  17. #92

    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Quote Originally Posted by s3antana5757 View Post
    I go back and forth on this. Chapman and Miller trades brought two teams to the WS. But when you can go get guys like Green or even guys like Roberston for just money, I don't see why you would pay big in prospects for relievers. Betances has no value if you're already losing by 5 runs every time he pitches.
    Because you can't just do that.

    You need to have the right scouting, prospects, GM, availability, etc.
    Hideki Matsui is capable of anything

  18. #93

    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Quote Originally Posted by NerfBall55 View Post
    Because you can't just do that.

    You need to have the right scouting, prospects, GM, availability, etc.
    I never said it was an easy thing to do. I just think you can get fairly decent bullpen pitching without giving up guys like Torres, Frazier, etc. I'm certainly glad those deals happened.

    Just look at what we gave up to build our bullpen. Chapman was money. Betances a prospect. Kahnle/Roberston for Rutherford and spare parts. Green for Wilson. A. Miller at the time was just money.

  19. #94

    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Good post. Some thoughts . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by ChinMusic View Post
    Offseason To-Do List

    1. Get Otani
    2. Buyout Tanaka's opt-out option up to 8 MM$ depending on performance the rest of the way
    Why would the Yankees need to waste money buying out Tanaka's option? Tanaka would have to be crazy to opt out. He has guaranteed money with the Yankees, which he loses if he opts out. He would then be rolling the dice in hopes that someone will give him more money/years than he was already guaranteed with the Yankees. Given his health and inconsistent track record, why would anyone do that?

    3. If 1 & 2 accomplished bid a fond farewell to CC. If not accomplished, resign for an incentive laden 1-year deal
    4. Trade Betances
    5. Get a BUC who can put up a .700 OPS
    Where are you going to find this BUC who also plays good defense? Some of the best teams in the game are currently STARTING catchers with a sub -.700 OPS - Washington, Cleveland, Colorado, and the LA Angels. If regular catchers with a .700+ OPS are hard to find, how are the Yankees going to find one who can play off the bench? And why would any catcher with that kind of ability come to the Yankees to play behind a rising star who's likely to play a lot of games when that same catcher could likely get a starting gig somewhere else?

    6. Teach Sanchez how to block balls in the dirt
    7. Get a lefthanded power bat who mashes righties and can play RF to replace Holliday on roster
    Not to nitpick what is a good list, but I thought those 2 points warranted some comment.
    Last edited by Bill Marsh; 09-17-17 at 02:16 PM.

  20. #95
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    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    A theory floated is that the team that lands Otani could circumvent the financial limitations in place by assuring the player that they won’t tender him a contract after the first or second season, allowing Otani to become a free agent -- with a prenegotiated deal to follow with the team that cut him free. But sources indicate that Major League Baseball would view that as an obvious attempt to effectively break the rules and would come down hard on Otani’s MLB team. “Because there’s no reasonable logic to failing to tender a contract to a young star player other than to get around the rules,” said one official.

    Otani’s situation will be highly scrutinized and commissioner Rob Manfred has made it known he wants the integrity of the current international-signing system to be honored.

    “Otani is a great player,” Manfred said the other day. “We're always interested in having great players in Major League Baseball. From my perspective, I'm more concerned about having the right, durable system than whether a player comes this year or two years from now."

    Some evaluators believe that whoever Otani picks to serve as his agent will have to play a crucial role, because that agent may have to arrange an understanding of how the player can recoup his value after 2019, when the rules would allow him to lock in a long-term contract. That kind of off-the-record deal-making is against baseball’s rules, but as one official said, “Let’s not be na´ve. ... You’ll need an agent with the relationships to get that done.”

    http://www.espn.com/blog/buster-olne...uandered-value

  21. #96

    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    So, he's already hired Boras, knows where he's signing and has a handshake deal for 8/200.
    Leotardo. That's my f***in' legacy... No more, Butchie. No more of this.

  22. #97
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    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    The Rays signed Longoria an extension which covered his 6 team control years with additional 3 year team options when he was in the major for just less than two weeks. I fail to see what rule team has broken if they give Otani an $200M extension in 2018 season.

  23. #98
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    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Quote Originally Posted by kan_t View Post
    The Rays signed Longoria an extension which covered his 6 team control years with additional 3 year team options when he was in the major for just less than two weeks. I fail to see what rule team has broken if they give Otani an $200M extension in 2018 season.
    I think the situation is different. The idea is to cap the signing. If a deal is predicated by a future dated extension, the cap is meaningless.

    The Rays didn't sign Longoria with any future dated agreement (handshake or otherwise) in place.

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClownPickle View Post
    I think the situation is different. The idea is to cap the signing. If a deal is predicated by a future dated extension, the cap is meaningless.

    The Rays didn't sign Longoria with any future dated agreement (handshake or otherwise) in place.
    In this case it's about trust. They don't have to make any commitment other than the IFA signing bonus. But if they don't take care of Otani big extension, the team probably would be blacklisted by the whole Japanese baseball world.

  25. #100
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    Re: The Hunt For Shohei Otani

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Marsh View Post
    Good lost. Some thoughts . . .

    Not to nitpick what is a good list, but I thought those 2 points warranted some comment.
    OK on BUC. Someone who gives more offensively than Romine.

    On Tanaka: Opt out is basically a game of chicken. You dont know when or if the other guy will flinch. And if he doesnt flinch, its too late to get a do-over. I dont find it implausible that he could better his existing 3-67 and get 3-75 on the open market, considering how he seems to have put his early and mid season struggles behind him, and especially if he pitches well the rest of the way and in the playoffs. Its pretty clear hes not hurting. The guy is 29 and in his prime and has pitched with his condition effectively for years now. He's not an ace caliber pitcher, but is a very capable #2 pitcher. And 25MM$ AAV on a 3-year deal is in no way outrageous for a #2 pitcher. I would just rather sweeten his deal just enough to not have him opt out, starting with about 2 million and going as high as 8. The alternative is what if he opts out? Giving a 31 year old Darvish 5-135? I would just rather take advantage of the leverage that an exclusive negotiating window provides us before he opts out, rather than get into a bidding war with the Dodgers and the other big market clubs after he opts out.

    There is also the issue of timing. His opt out will occur before Otani's landing spot is known. So there's that to consider, whether we want to risk missing out on both. The other issue with timing is that 3 years for Tanaka gives us better flexibility in our situation than say 5-6 years committed to Darvish. Within the next 3 years Keuchel, Kershaw and Bumgardner will all be FA's. Within the next couple years we will know if Sevvie becomes the ace we think he could be. Within 3 years we'll have a much better idea about Montgomery, Adams and Sheffield. Everything considered, Id just rather have a 29-31 year old Tanaka, than a 31-36 year old Darvish.

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